Recently, I was asked about relationship -- specifically by a relatively young man wanting to know how to succeed in finding and growing a "true love" relationship with a female. Something he has been singularly unable to accomplish. Because what I told him applies generally to relationships of all sorts and since relationships (interactions with others) is often where the rubber meets the road in applying intent, making choices, and getting feedback, I thought it might be interesting enough to many of you to warrant posting it.

To want to find your "true love" is natural enough -- indeed, it is programmed in your genetics - but this is not something you make happen, it is something you let happen. Don't look to manipulate it into being by applying your intent in order to mold an outside reality, rather apply your intent to mold an inside reality. You achieve the result you want not by making it happen, but by stopping making it not happen. What has to change is the inside reality - when the inside reality is as it should be, the outside reality will automatically adjust itself to deliver not what your ego wants and needs, but what you deserve, and it will quite automatically deliver those opportunities for which you are ready and from which you are able to gain the most personal growth.

So, the solution is to change yourself such that you are ready to make the most of, and deserve to find, "true love". You must change yourself such that a "true love" relationship will offer you an optimal growth path as opposed to just making your ego purr. When you use your focused intent to remake yourself in this way, a love relationship with a woman is very likely to materialize out of thin air. The only reason that an opportunity for a growth inducing love relationship will NOT take place is: your being frustrated in this particular way offers a greater potential for your personal growth. In other words, failure in this area of your life contains a higher potential for personal growth than does success. Your job is to grow up enough to make sure the second condition (growth spurred by frustration) is much less likely than the first (growth spurred by your capacity to give/love) to be a successful catalyst for your entropy reduction.

It is about what you can give to a relationship from your heart and soul, NOT what you can get from a relationship to make you feel warm, wonderful, and wanted (that's all ego junk - very pleasant, but often nonproductive and short lasting for most of us because any ego we retain will naturally poison the relationship with requirements to meet our neediness and toxic self-satisfied indolence and arrogance. Bottom line: You have to let warm, wonderful, and wanted just happen on its own as an untended consequence of right being.

you must realize that your wants and needs for such a relationship are built upon fear as well as genetics. Fear that you are missing out, fear that you are not lovable, fear that you will never find a true love - that opportunity is slim and passing you by. It is the nature of a consciousness system that Fear makes both you and the larger reality act and be in such a way as to materialize your fears (make your fears come true). You must let the wants, needs, desires, hopes, and expectations, i.e., the fear, go. If you can accomplish this, your problems will soon dissolve (run into delightful but challenging solutions) without you having to DO anything to make the solutions happen.

Bigger picture: Define a relationship (one without expectations or hidden agendas) very generally as an interaction with another person - any sex, any age, any connection. You establish relationships with almost everyone you meet more than once. What all positive relationships should all have in common is respect and caring for the person with whom you are interacting - it's about them - about what you can give - what value you can add by participating in their reality. You do this Not because you are trying to create a relationship that will make your reality more comfortable and rewarding but because you simply like people and care about them, empathize with their needs, and see where you might be helpful. You are this way, you have this attitude because it is a reflection of your consciousness quality -- it is in no way derived from your intellect - you are not acting, you are simply being. Almost all of your relationships will be positive.

More specifically:
To be successful in making this transition of attitude you must grow up such that you interact with people in general, particularly females, without regard for your personal needs (this is best done by eliminating your needs rather than just suppressing them, but do whatever you can). Think of females not in terms of potential love relationships - or in terms of what they think of you, but just as interesting beings with whom you interact - no expectations, no hopes, no games, no manipulations, no hidden agenda. Then interact with your main interest being in them, their wants, needs, and expectations, their lives and issues -- be interested and attentive, give empathy and understanding because you care about them NOT because you are trying to set yourself up with them, show them what a great guy you are, or develop a relationship, much less a specific type of relationship. The first is truly about them - a simple straightforward interaction with no expectations or hopes or hidden agendas; the second is primarily about you, about getting something, or leaving the impression you want. Forget about the relationship - let it take care of itself. Let it develop, or not, in its own way and at its own pace. get to know them and interact with them as other beings whose paths you sometimes cross. If you are without needs and sincerely care about others, productive relationships with those others will develop on their own. Good personal relationships are not made or even encouraged very much; they just happen all by themselves and unfailingly mirror the quality of the beings involved. Look for quality you can build on.

Do not over intellectualizing or over analyzing until you confuse yourself. Simply interact naturally with an honest caring interest with females whose path you cross and let whatever happens happen. Don't try to direct it with your intellect -- just let the relationship develop however it does -- each will be different and unique. You will be clumsy at it at first, and your ego will keep jumping in, but once you grow enough and gain enough experience to get good at this open, non-self-focused interaction without requirements or expectations or ego, one of the relationships will develop more depth than the others -- just go with it and see where it goes (still no expectations, no ego).

Tom C

Tom,

Forgive me for poking my nose into an excellent discussion as it stands. But I think that I can add something that can put an easily understood perspective on how to view things in order to easily accomplish some of the things you advise. Trust me. I will eventually get to a relatively simple statement applicable to the circumstances of a relationship with another.

Basic to our interaction as individuated beings is Absolute Free Will. You have the right to want to act in any way that you want, even to do evil. Everyone else has the right to their own choices under Absolute Free Will. This is where the 'Absolute' comes from. If your choice is to do Evil, with Evil defined as trying to control the free will of another individuated being, then all other beings have the Absolute Free Will based right to resist your evil intent, whatever it takes and is appropriate.

Think about this in terms of relationships, with a woman, or with anyone. You have an Absolute Free Will right to attempt to seduce or coerce them to your will, to try to get what ever you want. But where will this get you other than a slap on the face, a short lived relationship, a set of knuckles applied briskly, the intervention of the law, or whatever is sanctioned by society. Not good results. And if you succed in your evil intent, there goes the old entropy test for your being. So the primitive conflict of Absolute Free Wills must be tempered by maturity and understanding of the situation in order to achieve a better and more productive relationship. Now we can get to the simple statement with this as background.

Keep in mind in all of your actions that the intent of controlling the free will of a young lady as a sub class of individuated beings is inherently evil. Make sure that it is clear to you at all times that what you do and intend does not violate their free will choices. Let this be your test of your actions. It will rule out such cliches as plying her with intoxicants, running out of gas in your car or taking advantage of any situation in which you find a young lady at a disadvantage. I may be mistaken, but I find this to be an easy test to apply in any situation: am I acting contrary to their free will rights? If she reciprocates this attitude, you have a potential long term relationship.

This does not mean that you have to subordinate your free will to that of others although you may choose to do so at times. You have the right to your own free will choices and this may simply have to lead to a parting of the ways. But with a reciprocal interaction between two beings 'of good will' on the basis of maintaining each one's own and the other's free will choices to the greatest extent possible, you have the potential for a relationship of the greatest depth possible. When these two beings reach the understanding that the other can be trusted to honor their own free will, you have the basis of a relationship that can go anywhere that the two agree upon.

I hope that this did not muddy the waters but adds a simple test of your actions and intent. Thus producing the higher level results that Tom advises above.

Ted Vollers

Wonderful posts Tom and Ted.
Am I to take it that the same advice is suitable for females wishing to develop relationships with men?
Even the bit about plying them with drink :)

Tom:What has to change is the inside reality - when the inside reality is as it should be, the outside reality will automatically adjust itself to deliver not what your ego wants and needs, but what you deserve, and it will quite automatically deliver those opportunities for which you are ready and from which you are able to gain the most personal growth.

Me: Does this apply to every situation not just regarding relationships?

Tom:The only reason that an opportunity for a growth inducing love relationship will NOT take place is: your being frustrated in this particular way offers a greater potential for your personal growth.

Me:This is possibly my greatest lesson LEARNED to date.(Ouch! that one took so long to learn and it really really hurt)

At the grand old age of 50(nearly) Now I know why!

I was never very good at "Men" for most of the reasons Tom states and maybe a small amount of background circumstances as well (Uncertainty principle?) I have now accepted that I will be on my own(I always have been) and it actually does not matter.I am free to grow in which ever way I choose and I am happy about this.

Ted :I find this to be an easy test to apply in any situation: am I acting contrary to their free will rights?
Wonderful advice Ted.

Amazing how childish one can be despite ones chronological age,or maybe it's just ignorance of basic fundermental facts. Once one understands the bigger picture,even a limited understanding,it renders lifes greatest trials and tribulations so transparent ,another lesson learned !
Can I have a gold star please?
I think this is one of the most wonderful threads on this board because it touches everyone. We all want to be loved and cherished by "The ONE" and for those of us that never actually achieved that then it explains why and hopefully teaches us a very valuable lesson,and that is what it is all about.

Cherie

Cheri: Am I to take it that the same advice is suitable for females wishing to develop relationships with men?
Cheri: Does this apply to every situation not just regarding relationships?

Tom: Yes and yes. Though my words were specific to the questioner and the question asked, the principles upon which my advice was based are general and can (should) be applied to all interactions with others. Likewise, Ted's framing the issue in terms of free will represents a universal principle that applies generally to all interactions with other sentient entities.

Tom C

Does this, or can it, mean that your over-soul, and or guides intentionally prevent you from going that direction?

All of my relationships happened when I was a teen. By the time I was 20 it was over, and up till now it has been a life of celibacy for the most part. Don't need it, but wouldn't mind having it. Can easily wait for the next life. What bothers me is that I don't know if it was intentional on the part of the over-soul/guides. What it does appear to be more about fear, as I placed a great deal of expectations on them. And when they failed my egotistical world came crashing down. It looks like there is a good deal of growth potential there, but I'm more interested in facing a bigger fear, that being dealing with a great number of people. Maintaining the "monk" image, and entering a charity service of some type after all obligations have been met, is my focus of late. Don't know what would be better for me now, one or other, maybe a combination.
It's amazing how much "Free Will" pops it's head up in every thought about relationships now. Wont post the endless story of controlling others' Free Will in one way or another, but will say I've played on the dark side.

Thanks Tom and Ted for a helpful post.

Shin

What about a life partnership, where the two "needy" people work together to overcome those needs? Didn't feel like I could fit that type of relationship Tom pointed out. I'm just to needy, but if we both are in the same position, maybe it would work out. Being a recluse, I could really use the interaction, and so kill two birds with one stone, so to speak. Now I think maybe that's what you were saying all along...

Shin

Shinoki,

I see no reason that two 'needy' people cannot have a life together, working towards the soul mate level that they are not at at first. After all, the vast majority have never heard of a soul mate relationship. And you never know whether you fully realize the situation. You could have had a closer relationship previously but have taken on more and more serious problems in this life that interfere. If the opportunity presents itself to experience a relationship that you know is not detrimental to the other, your partner, go for it. If you operate from good Intent, the best way that you are able, there is potential for good and growth to come from the relationship. When we discuss soul mate relationships, we are discussing a goal to aim for that most will not achieve. We should keep this in mind and not be carried away longing for the ideal. That there is an ideal does not remove all value from the less than perfect norm. A less than ideal relationship in which there is the opportunity for learning and growth is much better than no relationship. This is why we are here: Interact, Learn, Grow. I once asked for guidance, having opened the beginning of a potential relationship with a woman, "Now that I have her, how should I use her." The answer that came was: "Very carefully."

Ted

Any thoughts on the terms:
"soul mate"
"twin flame"
or what Tom likes to refer as "the one"
compared to any other relationship of partnership we experience in one or several life times?

Hi Shin,

I just thought of something (have you ever stopped to think, and then forgot to start again *smile*), anyway, I am a bit reclusive as well limiting physical interaction to those in my home, their friends that come here, and forced journeys to lay in supplies once or twice a week to the stores. I make a trek to "the city" or "down the hill" depending on which way I go as infrequently as possible where there are lots of iuoc, or Free Will Awareness Unit's (FWAU) as my second round with book 2 learned me ;), in the city but I don't allow much time to make a connection with The One if that is where they are. I was talking with one of my daughter and her boyfriends friend yesterday about this issue of the difficulty of making the connection required to know if someone was it, and just now put something together which seems obvious now that it is seen. First, I acknowledge and intake what Tom and Ted have said here about this, as well as what has been said in the post started by Nelly viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2899 especially as it relates to time being the telling factor. As my favorite band Bayside says in a song, "obsession never lasts", true love/soul mates do for as long as indicated per the life experience. This might be another way of looking at the "it is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all", in losing your soul mate context as a possible change in a life. I think that we can have more than one soul mate, although only one at a time would be optimal for happiness while finding two would be optimal for a pain experience. It would be nice to have just the one though ;).

What I thought of though is this, as recluses while it may seem that we are using right intent by not trying to force it and let it happen naturally if it is to happen, but actually we are screwing ourselves by closing ourselves off to any possibility of making a connection. I think what I thought was that I need to get out to several places were I will go to regularly and frequently that are interesting, preferably fascinating, to me in order for anything to change in this situation. My intent must be to enjoy myself during the experience, not to be trolling, while also being aware, non-judgemental, and having no expectations (although I can't get over this being an expectation in itself). I think the key it to actually mingle with PMR people while engrossed in something enjoyable, while connections can be made online, they are limited in sensory data. To make a PMR love connection one must get the heck out of their bubble (house) into an environment that they love, doing something they love. What do you think Shin?

Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I think great minds think alike lol ;) you hit the nail on the head.

Being a bit of a romantic I like the idea of "the One" or "Twin Flames" (really like that), but keep putting the cart before the horse. The wonderful part is the journey, not so much the destination. The sharing of the long walk is where it's all at.

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v16391233ZFmmrYMc?rank=4&

The above anime got me thinking... The main character is much like me, a recluse that's afraid to go outside, and yes I've had similar moments. What caught my attention was the development with his friend that he hasn't seen in years. They decide to make a game, and his task is to write the script for it. It reminded me of my friend and I writing together many many years ago. He eventually got a small press comic book going for a short wile, but I never did anything. I'm much like my Grandfather who tries to do everything himself, by himself. But that's the problem, I miss out on the sharing of the experience, even if it's bad. Isn't that what a relationship is, that of sharing? To work with my friend and finally write a novel regardless if it's great or plain sucks. To find someone who is willing to walk the path of truth with me no matter how much it hurts. What a great journey, and experience that can... will be. This really isn't just about the love interest of a woman for me, but that of all my relationships.

Thanks Ted. You and Tom make a great team. You tend to have a poetic side, wile Tom is more analytical from my point of view... very useful to me. :)

Sorry about the ramblings, broke down and had a few beers. The rest is not important.
Our friend Storker points to something, that being we shouldn't be in such a rush. I couldn't wait to turn 18, get out of school, and get married. But all those relationships ended badly. Didn't care who it was as long as she was pretty, and of coarse the feelings of love only helped to mask the haphazard approach to this thing I was after. Being 36 I get this feeling "man your getting old, you better do this now if your going to do it at all", but I realize it's just a PMR thing. Ashamed to say that I was still in a physical way of thinking. People, no matter the age, find happiness in anything as long as it is shared.

Yes I'm afraid of a relationship. It's do in part from past experience, and reinforced by others. My parents divorced. My Dad ended up getting divorced from his second wife, now creditors are after him because of her credit problems. Been a best man at two weddings. The one has three kids, but I found about the third one via my mom who saw it in the paper. There was some things that happened at his wedding that I keep to myself, not involving me so much as I just witnessed it. This relationship, from my point of view, was so bad at times that eventually I told him about my discomfort around his family. Guess what I said wasn't to tactful, and he neglected to tell me about his third child. So I'm guessing that relationship is done, sadly to say because he was such a good person in a really bad place. My other friends wife hated me, and we use to fight quite often, but then things smoothed over, and you know what... they get divorced lol all that work for nothing. So now he's been looking for the next one. He finally found someone that we both thought was going to be "the one". Shortly there after she just walks away from him like nothing happened... I couldn't believe it, how cruel. He keeps looking, and so I give him crap about it jokingly, but do hope that he does find someone special. The world needs more good relationships imo. To make a long story longer, the relationship case is about the same for everyone I know, but a few. My two uncles, a coworker, and a friends bother are all the great relationships I know of. The rest, many many, don't tend to last and exist in a bad way. So now you know why I don't chase after someone.

So my ideal woman would be a dyslexic, slob, that wants to develop meditating skills, and follow the path of Truth lol.

If anyone has read this fully, you get all my gold stars :P

Shin

I read it all my friend ;)

A thing that is pursued is much harder to catch. I have found the best things in my life when I wasn't looking, just living and paying attention. A lesson it took me a while to learn is to embrace life and live fully, don't live in fear. Interacting with PMR is what we are here for. I was seriously introverted when I was young because I couldn't share the things in my head with anyone. Fear of living can be overcome, a little at a time, just never give up. I can truly say that now my life is better than my dreams were. Last year I married my One in Hawaii, a sunset wedding on the beach. We had a Hawaiian ceremony and a sprinkle of rain and a rainbow showed up during the blessing. Reverend Colleen was very surprised as it was the first time it had ever happened as she called for it. We climbed a volcano, rode a submarine, took a helicopter tour, and swam at the black sand beach. My point is if I can do it you can too. No one should be afraid to live large and be who they are. Coming from a boy who was afraid to go to school, I know you all can do it. Let go of fear and it will come.

love you all

_________________
always, John

I read it as well.

I used to think that *God (for lack of better term) had all the control over us because even know we have free will to do whatever we please to do (to certain extend) he always keeps the last laugh for himself by using "falling in love" to control us. (Note I say falling in love not loving people, because as I said before to love people is easy).
Falling in love and having that one person fall in love with you is the difficult part, the guy I am in love with seems to have the idea that all married people love their partners but are always "hot" or "falling in love" with other people and that is ok as long as you don't act on it.
This concept disturbs me because I don't believe it should be like that, when I was married with my ex I never fell in love or had the hots for other guys until the relationship was over and I lost respect for him.Which I still blamed myself for it because now I was "the bad one" by ending the relationship but I got to the point where I couldn't even lay next to him let alone be intimate.
After I ended this relationship and started going out I started observing and yes, I found out that more couples than I like to think cheat on their spouses, and it is ok for lot of people because "it is just sex".
I just don't get it.

As much as I don't get people that jump from bed to bed and have so many partners, I am kind of jealous of them I wish I was like that, it seems they live a better happier life than to have the idea that there is that special person for you out there but he/she never comes.
Don't take me wrong because I am not miserable , I am a big girl and if this how it is then that is fine, all I want to know is once and for all if there is that special person for each one of us or if it is all just made up to keep us going, like the feeling of falling in love that some say it is only to bring us together to that one person to learn something or pay for old karma.
What ever happened to partnership and be a team to achieve things together?

I also want to know if I am paying for Karma ,then I need to know how much more I need to pay so I can hurry this up and be done with it LOL
(actually I am kind of serious on this too)

OMG, Shin, you have just described me! I once stayed up all night pondering the existence of DoG, as a dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac. Actually that is one of my favorite jokes, did you hear the one about the...;)

I don't believe I am dyslexic, but fit the bill otherwise with probably some ADD without the hyperactivity (I'm lazy). Where have you been all my life? The answer, for the first half of it I wasn't born yet, lol. I just hit 49, maybe next life, hey.

I can't get past trust issues. I don't really trust men not to be predatory sexual perverts, and have a huge fear of being cheated on causing me to actually prefer not taking the chance, in my twisting rationalization. If/when I meet someone and those feelings do not actualize, that will be my rainbow, I think. You'll make it, and you will know it when it happens. That's the story I've been hearing. I think there will be something about touch, the effect touching or nearness will have on your consciousness, your energy. I'm guessing, but believe there will be an energy to recognize, like Stroker's rainbow perhaps. There was a beautiful rainbow the day my twins were born, so beautiful a picture of it won a contest, rainbows are cool.

Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.

I am fearless. I have no fear and if I do I like to know where or to what because I can't even recognize it.

If I have to say I have one fear, which I know it is the one that is keeping me from meditation is to finally find out that love as I see it is really a tease and it doesn't really exist.I mean love between romantic/sexual partners.

Yes Nelly, I've noticed the same thing with infidelity being no big thing to some couples. I can't stand the thought of being with someone with that possible mind set. Sex is a pain in my ars (pun intended, but not literally), it's been a major theme in this life with sexually inappropriate behaviors by several male relatives, I used it as a way to get love in my youth, a lot a lot. It is highly overrated. Making love, if I ever get jiggy again it will be making love. I did turn down sex about 5 years ago which I did with actual right intent, he had a girlfriend, he was basically a stranger (a mechanic shuttling me home), he was way younger than me, I had my daughter to consider as a young lady I was an example for (if she would have ever found out), and I knew it was an "old me" behavior that I would feel icky about after. So I pushed him away and said no, and that was after 5 years without doing the nasty ;) Now it's been ten years, and I'm used to it or something as it isn't a big deal anymore. I've had two more opportunities since then I've shied away from since then do to it being a matter of sex rather than love, it isn't sex I am looking for. Actually I'm basically happy as I am, a born again virgin. ;) I would enjoy a partner, someone perfectly imperfect with loads of patience, who can stand me, and that I absolutely trust. That's all. :)

Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.