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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:42 am 
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Tom, you have often said that you are always looking out for things which cannot be explained by MBT and in the June 2019 Fireside Chat you were asked a question which has been on my mind for a long time so I am glad it was asked. (Part 2 at 30.50) I am sure I am not the only one who felt that your answer was totally unconvincing. I refer to the question (asked by Fun IUOC) about how the qualities of consciousness are carried over from one life to the next as data when the individual memories of the life just lived are wiped clean.
For the sake of those hearing the question for the first time I will re-phrase it in my own way. Take as an example the quality of kindness. We experience the giving and receiving of kindness in this virtual reality and it produces an emotion in us which is associated with that experience. We can have a similar experience by recalling memories of acts of kindness. However, if I say to somebody “I want you to feel kindness right now” we find we cannot do that without evoking some thought or memory – simply thinking the word “kindness” in isolation does not bring forth the emotional reaction. Similarly, in an example you often use we cannot just say “I’m going to feel angry right now” without an associated experience or memory. Without an actual experience or memory it’s just a word, a piece of data, in this case a metaphor representing something. As you have explained before, anger and indeed any other emotion, comes out of the Being level. That makes complete sense within the rule set of this PMR but does not seem to make sense in NPMR where a word describing any emotion is just a word with no associated experience.

You say that everything, absolutely everything, is data so how are these emotional qualities carried over from one lifetime to the next with no associated memories? I feel that this goes to the very heart of MBT which should be able to explain everything. However, your answer to Fun IUOC that questioning how this function of consciousness works is “extending the metaphor beyond what is useful” sounded little better than somebody saying “God moves in mysterious ways.” It seemed that you were at a loss to explain it. You again described the difference between the Being level and the intellect but that did not answer the actual question which asked another way is "how is the Being level captured as pure data?" You often say how MBT can explain the major paradoxes in physics but this seems to be just as big a paradox as any double slit experiment. You explain that one of the few assumptions of MBT is that consciousness exists – do you need to add that emotional qualities are an aspect of consciousness that cannot be explained but just have to be accepted? Are we like Mr Spock trying to understand the intangible emotional qualities of what makes Captain Kirk human and realizing that it cannot be explained with pure data?

I am sure that you are able to give a more considered answer and it will hopefully deepen our understanding of how a virtual reality works. The previous question that I submitted for the Fireside Chat was never asked so I hope I am luckier this time!

Thank you Tom,
Kind Regards,
Gary


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:22 am 
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Good question, I listened to Tom's answer twice and felt it was OK. It seems to me that what you're asking is similar to a guy living 100 years ago wanting to know exactly how World of Warcraft works. While there won't be any problems for him to understand the general idea of the game (civilizations, battles, resources gathering etc), how are you going to explain things like server, computer, programming etc?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:42 am 
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God does move in mysterious ways. Especially when It is put in a box.

We tend to think our emotions are caused by something outside ourselves. We feel a certain way about this or that. Yet two different people may feel very differently about the same event. What if you simply experienced an emotion and then associated it with whatever you experience in the outside world?

What if your feelings are based on the beliefs you hold? How would that influence your thoughts? What if your thoughts and feelings, based on your belief system is what is directly responsible for what and how you experience existence? YCYOR.

As a wise man once said, a problem(question) can never be solved from the level in which it was created.

BTW, The Vulcans do have emotions they just choose to suppress them. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:25 am 
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Hi Gary,
Tom doesn't come to the forum anymore. So any questions directed only to him will have to be through the Fireside Chat. Here is the link for those questions:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9137&p=111197&hili ... at#p111197

However, what you are asking would take more explanation that Tom usually gives in such a format. So, my first question for you would be how familiar are you with the MBT theory? Because any good explanation would require some understanding of MBT. The basic concept you are missing is entropy. You are not left with the memory or emotions of your last life after you die. You are left with your quality of consciousness, (QoC.) And that QoC is who you are at the being level. Your memories of any past life can be accessed from the Actualized Past Database. And past lives are often reviewed between lives to illuminate where you are, and what goals to reach for in your next experience packet.

Here are two good posts from our previous Administrator, Ted Vollers. If this doesn't make any sense to you then please ask more questions.

The term entropy arose in engineering/physics and can simply be thought of as energy that is not available in a 'system'. So if your system were a boiler to produce steam and a steam engine to do work, entropy would be a measure of the steam exhausted after the steam drove the piston down to where the exhaust valve could open and the used steam be blown out. So you have the idea of wasted energy.

Then information systems were invented and the definition of entropy changed and I won't go into this as it is not as simple to understand idea. Since we are concerned about IUOCs here and the Union of all IUOCs as being AUM, the simple terms I think of entropy in is the digital code of our IUOCs which simply does not work, produces nothing useful, or even errors as bad results or alternately that simply does not get executed as it is blocked off from the other code within the IUOC. Basically this would arise because of how IUOCs are now described as being put together of segments of code selected from the IUOCs selected to be the collective 'parents' of a newly created IUOC so these are the gaps and miss connections of the blocks of new code which must be smoothed out as our new IUOC begins to incarnate. New IUOCs no longer start from 'scratch' with just random code thrown together but with a form of digital genetics you might say.

But alternately or perhaps I should say simultaneously, since our Quality Of Consciousness or QOC is an important concept about our IUOCs, somehow coded into a section of the code of our IUOC, another aspect of entropy in our IUOCs would be bad code as in creating 'bad behavior' in the section of code which holds and defines our QOC.

http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewto ... wrapheader

Regarding entropy, keep in mind that it applies at your base level of being which is a digital (in effect) IUOC. It is very like a program within a computer of very vast scope and complexity. The scope and complexity of our brains are clues to this scope and complexity of our IUOCs which are our true selves. They are our decisions makers, based upon their subjectively interpreting the data stream which represents our PMR experience. It, our IUOC, is not programmed by a programmer but develops by natural processes. The question of entropy amounts to disorder within that program such that it does not function perfectly. As stated, it was not programmed but rather develops naturally and as such can have defects. I suspect that it has within its functioning something much like the neural networks that PMR neurological science describes within our brains but we cannot know that as we have no access to the actual coding within our IUOCs. Neural networks have the property that they are trained rather than programmed. They are applied to a particular purpose and they are automatically adjusted by feedback which results from how well their programming produces the desired output. This is exactly the process that Tom describes where our base level being is adjusted by our interactions and paying attention to the feedback from that interaction. This reduces our entropy at our base being level. That is, it adjusts by training our 'circuitry' so that the results produced by its decisions are more suitable and desirable and the result is improved interaction with other IUOCs.

Having a better understanding of this functioning, as Tom says, makes us better able to interpret the feedback resulting from our interactions.

http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewto ... 175#p71175


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