Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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Re: Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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edit- another pointless reincarnation rant.
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Re: Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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Sainbury wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:42 am Tom developed an entire TOE based upon his repeated 25+ year long science-based experiments in NPMR. He didn't have preconceived ideas and then go out and find experiences that bolstered his beliefs. The parts of his TOE work together.

When he says that Uncle Fred no longer exists it is because Uncle Fred only existed as a character in a VR. Uncle Fred was being played by a fragment of consciousness. And after that data stream to the Uncle Fred character was discontinued, (Uncle Fred died,) there is no more Uncle Fred character other than in a data base. That fragment of consciousness went on to play other characters in PMR. And none of those characters exist outside of the Actualized Past Database after they die.
But this refutes the observation of mystics throughout the ages. So everyone is wrong and only Tom Campbell is right? While hardly a reputable source, the Seth Material channelings, just as a modern example, claim that after death Uncle Fred continues to evolve on his own as children of the IOUC, although such terms are not used. Tom assumes that his perspective is the correct one, thereby ignoring the testimony of saints and mystics for literally thousands of years. While Tom may be correct, I do not give him omniscience, even if what he says is logical. The problem for him is that of spiritual paradox. All mystics, except Tom, agree that spiritually is full of paradox, of this being true AND the converse also being true outside our PMR. Tom tries to make a logical paradigm out of what may simply be too hard for us to understand. He ties it all up in a pretty bow and presents it to us. Yet although I find the BIG TOE fascinating, I do not give it precedence over the reports of metaphysical explorers over thousands of years in the West and East.
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Re: Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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CaregiverJoe wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:21 pm
Sainbury wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:42 am Tom developed an entire TOE based upon his repeated 25+ year long science-based experiments in NPMR. He didn't have preconceived ideas and then go out and find experiences that bolstered his beliefs. The parts of his TOE work together.

When he says that Uncle Fred no longer exists it is because Uncle Fred only existed as a character in a VR. Uncle Fred was being played by a fragment of consciousness. And after that data stream to the Uncle Fred character was discontinued, (Uncle Fred died,) there is no more Uncle Fred character other than in a data base. That fragment of consciousness went on to play other characters in PMR. And none of those characters exist outside of the Actualized Past Database after they die.
But this refutes the observation of mystics throughout the ages. So everyone is wrong and only Tom Campbell is right? While hardly a reputable source, the Seth Material channelings, just as a modern example, claim that after death Uncle Fred continues to evolve on his own as children of the IOUC, although such terms are not used. Tom assumes that his perspective is the correct one, thereby ignoring the testimony of saints and mystics for literally thousands of years. While Tom may be correct, I do not give him omniscience, even if what he says is logical. The problem for him is that of spiritual paradox. All mystics, except Tom, agree that spiritually is full of paradox, of this being true AND the converse also being true outside our PMR. Tom tries to make a logical paradigm out of what may simply be too hard for us to understand. He ties it all up in a pretty bow and presents it to us. Yet although I find the BIG TOE fascinating, I do not give it precedence over the reports of metaphysical explorers over thousands of years in the West and East.
Ted Vollers wrote: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:49 am Taking a historical perspective on what Tom has discovered/described provides a confirmation of the completeness and reality of those discoveries in that it then can be seen that what mystics and metaphysicians since preliterate times up to the present have observed and reported matches exactly with Tom Campbell's descriptions. That is, to use their historical names with Tom Campbell's terminology as a translation, the Void, the Void as it becomes activated or quickened which Tom explains as the beginning of the interaction of the reality cells and contained data within them. This then develops into the Larger Consciousness System or LCS, and Indra's Net which Tom calls the Reality Wide Web and the IUOCs attached to/connected by it. Then there is the Buddha's description of life here as Illusion which is a simpler and metaphorical way to describe Tom's Virtual Reality concept. There you have the sum and total of what has been observable for millenia and exactly what Tom discovered independently through his own explorations and analysis. Then there are the so called, Akashic records, that Tom calls the past actualized data base and the probable future data base, along with the unactualized past data base. All known to Indian, Tibetan and Buddhist philosophy for millenia. While I have been aware of these correlations for years, I have just recently had the insight to put them into the following perspective of completeness.

All of the further details within Tom Campbell's model can be shown to arise from permutations of these components in terms of their interactions through messaging and resulting functions, producing all the required functions described within Tom's model. Thus Tom Campbell's model can be shown to encompass the experience of mystics and metaphysicians of all ages and persuasions, integrating this experience with a view that can be comprehended within the metaphors of modern science, mathematics and digital technology. This not to in any way denigrate these ancient insights nor Tom Campbell's description and model of Reality. It is rather a matter that they reinforce and explain each other. The Model of Tom Campbell describes a dynamically changing, constantly metamorphosing Reality based upon Consciousness within which these few components mentioned form all of the other, nominally separate, elements included within the Model, providing all of the required functions to implement that model and which defines those elements. These 'things' or functions include instances of The Big Computer(s) and The Even Bigger Computer. IUOCs are the building blocks of any and all functionality that comes to be required by AUM. The IUOCs are in their united interaction and communication, The One Consciousness and AUM in its totality. This, as the IUOCs, is also what AUM has available to use, along with the Reality Wide Web as the communication buss which unites these IUOCs by communication, the past actualized and unactualized data bases, the future probable data bases and by which data communication creates all of the permutations and interactions within the model which Tom has created.

Tom Campbell actually produced this model without making reference to those ancient observations or using them as a starting point, other that that the universally apprehended Void was taken as the beginning point for everything. Yet we find on examination that what the ancient mystics and metaphysicians could observe provides all of the necessary elements of Tom Campbell's model. His model simply makes those ancient observations understandable in the metaphors of modern science and technology and even available as an intellectual understanding without the years of study and meditation required for their apprehension by following the traditional paths of mystics and ancient metaphysicians.

Keeping in mind Tom Campbell's admonition regarding open minded skepticism and avoiding beliefs, no one here will ever be expected to believe Tom Campbell's model. However, based on the above and my own personal experiences of it, I do not believe but rather know Tom Campbell's model of reality to be a very good, complete and fruitful model of our Reality. Considering that we must actually have the active participation of the LCS in order to be able to perceive these things at all, that they have been so consistently and persistently perceived from ancient to modern times, I cannot view it other than as highly significant that the LCS provides these, and only these, perceptions and revelations of itself to those who put forth the effort required to perceive them. If there was more or something different instead, why stop consistently at these few viewpoints and not show more except that basically there is no more to see or to know. All the rest is continuing and deepening understanding of these very basic building blocks and how they interact, permute their interactions and the resulting functions. Everything else amounts to meta Realities, built upon these relationships between these few components. They are observable only within these relationships and processes and not as having any existence as structural or observable. There is simply nothing else available to be observed.

A version of this post is kept fully updated with any changes on Tom Campbell's Wiki within this page: http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/index.php/On ... More_NPMRs

Ted
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Re: Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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Well, let's hope that Tom's wrong and that good old Ted lives on in some timeless realm... Oops! -there's another thing - all mystics except Tom say that ultimately there's no time.
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Re: Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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vzam wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:27 pm Well, let's hope that Tom's wrong and that good old Ted lives on in some timeless realm... Oops! -there's another thing - all mystics except Tom say that ultimately there's no time.
Please provide a cite for this claim. I have studied this theory and many of the models presented by the "mystics". I do not recall Campbell taking this position. Although there are subtle differences between the models, there is a fundamental truth within them all. For example, in Yogananda's 1946 Autobiography of a Yogi page 172 footnotes he states: Aum (or Holy Ghost), the divine creative, invisible power which structures all creation... [is] the blissful Comforter heard in meditation [that] reveals to the devotee the ultimate truth.

According to my understanding of MBT, time and space are a function of the rule set of the VR experiential sense data stream called earth. Perhaps I am missing something.
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Re: Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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No, Tom says time is necessary to consciousness evolution and that it exists in all other virtual realities, albeit at a faster rate in NPMR. Check his book.
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Re: Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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vzam wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 11:07 am No, Tom says time is necessary to consciousness evolution and that it exists in all other virtual realities, albeit at a faster rate in NPMR. Check his book.
Yes, but neither time nor space exist in the void according to.this theory, as I understand it.
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Re: Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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OK, so I guess you mean that AUO is the Void (the ground of being) and that with AUM Time comes as a technology - the means for consciousness evolution as AUM.
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Re: Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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vzam wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 3:32 pm OK, so I guess you mean that AUO is the Void (the ground of being) and that with AUM Time comes as a technology - the means for consciousness evolution as AUM.
Yes, in a manner of speaking. Campbell's theory is an overlay of a digital reality to the reality as defined by the mystics. Generally, the mystics consider reality as an illusion (maya) projected from the mind of "all" that is. Light energy is projected into form.
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Re: Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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OK, so I guess you mean that AUO is the Void (the ground of being) and that with AUM Time comes as a technology - the means for consciousness evolution as AUM.
The Origins of Consciousness; A New Look At MBT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUpPdFi7ZtQ&t=256s

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=11073&p=102956&hil ... T#p102956

In Hindu theology they started at the beginning of time, or the beginning of existence, with a void. And they say, "The void was pregnant with potential. And out of that void spontaneously erupted existence." And then it began to evolve. It immediately evolved into what they call Indra’s Net. Which in that theology is a metaphor of an array of jewels that are all netted. They are a network all connected with each other - Indra’s Net - jewels in a network. The Larger Consciousness System would be the whole Indra’s Net. And we, the Individuated Units of Consciousness, would be those jewels in the network that are communicating with each other. The void that was pregnant with possibility and potential created existence. And that existence turned out to be these units that communicated and that are netted with each other. Indra's Net is ancient - probably 3000 years old. It's hard to say. I don’t know the origin of that writing. It maybe even older- even 4000 B.C. So that’s very, very ancient.

14.47
How did these ancient people know those things? They knew the same way that we know these things. Ancient peoples had consciousnesses just like we do. Ancient peoples were being played by Individuated Units of Consciousness just like we are. And one can always explore inner space. So we have people 5000, 6000, 7000, or even up to 10,000 years older than we are who explored inner space. All it takes is enough time to spend with yourself exploring your consciousness. All the things that we do today could easily have been done just as well back then. So people did do that. And we did have this understanding of the beginning of where it all came from. And it makes perfect sense in terms of the MBT theory. We look at that ancient Vedic knowledge and we can see how it fits into the MBT structure very easily.

16.03
Now we have this void that spontaneously became lower entropy and created information. That information was then acted on by a simple rule which was the cellular Automata. And the Cellular Automata was able to evolve, what we think of now, as consciousness. It was in that Cellular Automata that self-awareness developed. An awareness of itself as, "When I do this this, this is what that rule set does to me." It is an awareness of what it is, and an awareness of what’s going on. And that may just have occurred out of memory - an awareness of here’s memory of our history. And to be able to look at that history and see pattern in it. This is a thing that is created of pattern, and that’s what lowers entropy. A thing of pattern was able to be aware of its patterns. That was the first consciousness. And exactly how that came about or how that worked is just conjecture. That’s about as far back as we can go on this origins story.

17:27
But now let’s take it a little further to see how this Larger Consciousness System began to evolve into the thing that we know of today. We think of the Larger Consciousness System today as kind of the operating system of reality. It's very low entropy. It is a 'being' because it has consciousness. It's aware, it has emotions, and it has feelings. It is sort of like us in a sense except it is much bigger, grander, and more experienced than we are. And we'll talk about how we got to this place. We have this consciousness system that began evolving and needed to lower its entropy. And along the way it discovered a few ways to do this. And one of the first ways that it discovered, besides patterns, was it could also have sequences. Which brings us to time.

18.28
Time is a technology and an invention of consciousness. Time allows consciousness another whole dimension in which it can build order, and in which it can expand. Sequences are orders. It’s a pattern in time rather than a pattern in space or in thought. There really is no 'space' there. But rather than just ordered things, it's ordered things in sequence. Time is just another technology that was probably a breakthrough. Because suddenly the way that consciousness could arrange things it could build, and the constructs it could make, took on another whole dimension in sequence. Before we got regular time, we had what I call primordial time. And primordial time is just defined by change. That primordial consciousness could be in state '1 or 2,' 'this or that,' or '0 or 1.' That was a change. It could be in 'this' or it could be in 'that.' Well now you have a 'before' and an 'after.' If it could be in 'one' and then it could be in 'another,' then time had just been birthed. But this was primordial time and not regular time at this point. Change defines time. Something that can change has to have time or it can’t change. Nothing can ever change without time. There's always a 'before' and an 'after.' Through this evolution change was happening all along. Change was happening from the pregnant void that erupted into something through the Cellular Automata. All of this is about change. So primordial time is fundamental, and it’s at the very root of existence.

20:26
When the Larger Consciousness System got to inventing a new technology that technology wasn’t really time. It was regular time. It was time that was like a metronome. And that is easy to do if you have cells of 1’s and 0’s. You just flip between cells - 1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0. That’s a metronome. And a metronome keeps time. So the system could create a clock just by flipping between two states. And that clock could then be used to sequence precisely everything else. So that was the invention of regular time. That’s what I’m talking about when I say time was a technology. And that regular time was the technology. That’s how we get to the kind of time that we think of which is tick-tock, tick-tock time.

20.20
This Larger Consciousness System that was evolving had a second big ah-ha moment after the invention of regular time. The LCS was just a monolithic thing that made one choice at a time. It was the single choice maker. One thing making choices is very limited, because you only can really interact with yourself. There are no other choice makers. The next big technological breakthrough of how to grow, how to have more space in which to create, and how to add order to all the available bits was to split itself apart into pieces. And the LCS gave each piece free will. These free will pieces, that I call Individuated Units of Consciousness, could interact with each other. And because each had free will there was no way to tell exactly how those interactions would work out. This created novelty and more possibilities.
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Re: Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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Another limiting belief that Tom may have:
As a physicist, he could have an automatic (unconscious) disdain for what physicists usually consider a lesser science, biology. Thus the complexities of biochemistry and bodily function in his model are relegated to nothing more than "pixels", while physics gets pride of place as the VR "ruleset". If he does indeed hold such an unconscious belief, it would have had a powerful effect on the way he developed his model.

I know he's had a discussion with Bruce Lipton, but there's no way that someone like Rupert Sheldrake would accept the Virtual Reality idea to the detriment of biology.
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Re: Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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vzam wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 12:06 pm Another limiting belief that Tom may have:
As a physicist, he could have an automatic (unconscious) disdain for what physicists usually consider a lesser science, biology. Thus the complexities of biochemistry and bodily function in his model are relegated to nothing more than "pixels", while physics gets pride of place as the VR "ruleset". If he does indeed hold such an unconscious belief, it would have had a powerful effect on the way he developed his model.

I know he's had a discussion with Bruce Lipton, but there's no way that someone like Rupert Sheldrake would accept the Virtual Reality idea to the detriment of biology.
Sheldrake says that although there are similarities between morphic resonance and Hinduism's akashic records, he first conceived of the idea while at Cambridge, before his travel to India where he later developed it. He attributes the origin of his morphic resonance idea to two influences: his studies of the holistic tradition in biology, and French philosopher Henri Bergson's 1896 book Matter and Memory. He says that he took Bergson's concept of memories not being materially embedded in the brain and generalised it to morphic resonance, where memories are not only immaterial but also under the influence of the collective past memories of similar organisms. While his colleagues at Cambridge were not receptive to the idea, Sheldrake found the opposite to be true in India. He recounts his Indian colleagues saying, "There's nothing new in this, it was all known millennia ago to the ancient rishis." Sheldrake thus characterises morphic resonance as a convergence between Western and Eastern thought, yet found by himself first in Western philosophy.[8][124]~Wiki

The actualized past data base, akashic records and morphic resonance are all metaphors in support of the fundamental nature and theory of consciousness.
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Re: Thomas Campbell may have limiting beliefs

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Biology is as much a part of the ruleset as physics.
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