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 Post subject: Past Lives discussions
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:24 am 
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I felt that since I am still currently doing Past Lives research
+ John requested I open up a new thread on the topic,
Ive decided to finally get around to doing this.
And we can see how much interest there might be on this forum for the topics covered under Past Lives..

Researchers Ian Stevenson + Jim Tucker ( who is still currently active), have over many years accumulated an impressive data base of over 2,500 children who have claimed to have memories of a past life.

i am not aware of this data base ( which is always a work in progress ( WIP), in terms of adding new cases and the attributes that they are organizing , has been posted some place online. ( Perhaps someone ut there knows that it has and can point us to a link ? ).. But there there are many PDF smaller articles and studies that i have been able to find for free online , which discusses many of these cases in a fair amount of detail.

One early question I have related to the research ,
And perhaps Linda may know the answer to this ?

Tom has of course discussed aspects of past lives before.
And i do recall in a couple instances , he has mentioned he felt that there is a higher % that we return to a situation / new life that we are more accustomed to.
I was never sure if he meant that we chose to return to earth again or
if he even means the same culture that we experienced in the previous life..?
Perhaps he even means both those thing s?

If he meant familiarity of custom, i was thinking this might also increase the % of returning again to a similar location ?

In conclusion to this opening post, since there are many sub areas of this research , i am open to discussing any aspect of it, but i think we should prioritize those that have a direct connection to MBT theory if possible ..


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:17 am 
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Tom meant we most often return to this PMR. We incarnate into the best situation for us. So country and culture are not an issue. Tom has said several times that Uncle Fred may well be a 3 year old girl in China, and not watching over his relatives from a cloud.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:33 pm 
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I was not born with past life memories but a very strong intuitive being level feeling and knowing it was my choice to have this life and come here. especially since high school when times where hard I would say to myself this was your choice to come here.. I have known others who felt the same way since childhood.. I wonder what percentage of people have had the same feelings all their life.. also interesting is the amount of spiritual traditions with belief in reincarnation, budism, Hinduism, janeism, Sikhism, north american Aboriginal traditions..


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:01 am 
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If Uncle Fred could be a girl in China (having no recollection of past lives), it begs the question: what, if any, is the explanation for the noted experience of THEONE and others along with the objective evidence provided by Dr. Stevenson?

We know from MBT theory (and other models) that the IUOC (a newly created energy essence/higher self/ oversoul/God as is defined in other models) projects (pick your metaphor) a fragment of its essence into this PMR data stream. The fragment is the subconscious of the VR Avatar (made in the image of God). His name is Uncle Fred. The whole of Fred's consciousness is waking state (objective state) and dreams ( subjective state)

Now, Fred has an extraordinary life experience which ended in tragedy having been shot down in a dog fight during World War II. Fifty years later, the "whole" of fred is in the VR body of a 5 year old child according to the objective evidence presented by Dr. Stevenson.

We know that MBT theory (including other models and independent subjective experiences in varying degrees) defines the transitional experience after death to include a bifurcation of the whole of Fred. Dr. Stevenson's evidence suggests that the bifurcation takes place after the child reaches the age of 7. He does not provide evidence of THEONE's testimony in his work.

So therefore, is it unreasonable to conclude that this represents yet another unique aspect of consciousness in action?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:13 am 
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I am familiar with Stevenson and am
intrigued with his work. He is on the very short
list of people who take a professional big science
attitude to the “paranormal”, which provides inferential evidence
relevant to Tom’s work.

Others would be NDERF (NDEs), IONS (ESP), TMI (OBEs),
Eben Alexander (brain vs mind), Brian Weiss (past lives), Lilydale NY (mediumship
and healing). Who am I missing?

Possibilities on child remembrance,

1) these are errors in the algorithm
2) if memory serves, given that these are associated with death trama, perhaps
there is a productive therapeutic purpose to the remembering
3) it’s a PMR level genetic adaptive mutation
4) it’s part of the crumbs in forest left to find for
those aware enough to look

I believe the process of identifying each new Dalai Lama
involves dream interpretation to locate the child
and tests of the child’s recognition of significant
objects from the child’s previous life?

_________________
Does this PMR make my butt look big?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:23 am 
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Quote:
So therefore, is it unreasonable to conclude that this represents yet another unique aspect of consciousness in action?
I think it does, Tom described experiences during his childhood and then being shut out of them due to the need to develop “normally”. He has talked about remembering, later in life, experiences of being told about his future, such as his relationship with his wife.

I have had similar experiences. I think we get what we need when we need it. Some things need to be hidden or revealed at different times in order to achieve the goal(knowing the self). It can be fun to play hide and seek with oneself. Peekaboo is another good one. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:00 am 
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Linda,

i wanted to thank you for your reply ..
Quote:
Tom meant we most often return to this PMR. We incarnate into the best situation for us. So country and culture are not an issue.
and for others following along in this thread, this was in response to :
Quote:
Tom has of course discussed aspects of past lives before.
And i do recall in a couple instances , he has mentioned he felt that there is a higher % that we return to a situation / new life that we are more accustomed to.
and as Martin suggested to me in chat last night, so just returning to a life where we c an capture some "familiarity"..

Okay so the reason I had inquired into this area was from reviewing the research done by both Ian Stevenson + Jim Tucker it is clear that when they do solve a case they end up being found quite close to one another in many instances..

It is important to note here that the skeptical view on this would clearly be sure, the closer proximity of the 2 lives makes it easier for any info to be acquired between the 2 families , because there closer to each other

But for the purposes of my posting, lets carry on with the assumption past lives does in fact happen to most of us here :

Now this may sound sorta obvious in a sense , because you might argue sure its easier to locate the past life if its closer to the present child life right ?
This would all be fine if in there data base ( has to be over 3,000 cases by now i think ), if you had a large % still of unsolved cases. because than you could conjecture, well that what makes it difficult is that in many of those cases the 2 lives were born many. many miles apart?
However , it does look to me that there full data base is in fact composed of a high % of "solved" cases..( sorry I am still looking for exact/ current stats on this . )

So just to give one example of what im getting at-
They have developed something they refer to as - The Strength-of-Case Scale (SOCS)

Than it comes as no surprise that one important parameter to calculate this would be your proximity ( distance between past and current lives)..

Okay so lets have a look at there awarding of points to this important attribute -

19.Distance (in km. ) between child’s birthplace and deceased individual’s main residence -

so 0- 1.5 KM's gets you no points ( there seems to be a fair % of these cases where an IUOC in re born back into the same family again , is where you might get the zero figure from)

a distance of 1.6 - 25 KM, does net you + 2 in there SOCS

and than finally as distance of 25 Kms or greater nets you + 5

Now as I think everyone agrees 25 Km's ( which is about 15 miles) , is not very far ?
If we were to further conjecture its pretty much just a random attribute ( the location i am re born into in my next life..)

so for example my current life here in Florida and say if my previous life happened to be in one of the urban centers over in Europe
i think your looking at distance there of in the thousands of KM's

I do have some interesting ideas i feel as to "how and why" I might be reborn on the average a much closer distance than that , that i feel is contingent of the culmination of my understanding of how consciousness might work ( of course clearly still speculation on my part)..

But i prefer to wait on that until "others" have had a chance to add anything to what ive started here :) ?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:21 am 
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I think this is all just another nudge from the LCS. Three thousand cases is a minuscule drop in the bucket for all the experience packets in this PMR.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:15 pm 
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Linda,

thanks for your replies
Quote:
I think this is all just another nudge from the LCS. Three thousand cases is a minuscule drop in the bucket for all the experience packets in this PMR.
That is quite true, if we assume we all reincarnate, that would be very low % of children ( at least the ones we have been made aware of),
that are recalling past lives..

By nudge,
I take it you mean how these 3000 are in a small pool of children that are recalling past lives ?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:10 pm 
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Yes. I think this is really a kind of fear. We want to reassure ourselves that we will be incarnated again in the same area, with the same kind of people. It is just another one of our fears. The same kinds of experiences over and over are not as beneficial as variety. Knowing different experiences is better for long term growth.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:22 am 
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Linda.

thanks for your posting..

I wanted to focus on this here a bit-
Quote:
The same kinds of experiences over and over are not as beneficial as variety. Knowing different experiences is better for long term growth.
I wish we could find some actual video snippet links to support some of our own conclusions or if its more a direct reflection of direct quotes from Tom .
Because as you know its difficult to search thru all the videos for an area tom hasnt talked about a great deal . I dont mean past lives in the general sense but more the idea of where we might reincarnate. So we can test at least to smaller degree if this seems consistent with the past lives research data base which was started by Ian Stevenson and currently kept up with by Jim Tucker.. ( concerning residential proximity of past to current lives).

From my end the only direct quote i feel reasonable confident in which Tom has mentioned , was the idea that we might reincarnate back to this same PMR again. Than i get a little less sure if this concept of " familiarity ",,,( of how the general course of our PMR lives play out), that you might also extend into culture and similarity of life style , was something Tom had directly mentioned or not before . I do admit to you i have a feeling that at least a portion of this was the way i am personally interpreting some of his related comments on the subject. and than for sure , beyond that some of this is my ideas and theories on a personal level.

First before i share a bit of a counter view , i want to tell you i do respect your idea of "diversity of experience" and this does make good sense to me it would work this way

But what i was thinking that could figure into this concept , we are re: born into a similar location / culture is more this idea that your own subjective reality is to a large degree is caused by your own conscious intent / belief system you have shaped and formed in a lifetime . i am of course referring to religious beliefs that would be very strong such that they approach obsessive levels..

This would pertain more to the IUOC's past life rather than the current child s life And than obviously i refer to those individuals who have strongly based cultural reincarnation beliefs.

let me give 2 examples, and Ill leave this open to comments from others -

1) an over Zealous / strongly belief based Baptist man , lives his entire life immersed in the Baptist faith and religion, than finally passes on at an old age.
Upon entering the transitional reality frame he continues on with this highly immersive baptist lifestyle, and so there with his own belief based creation of an endless cycle of still going to the same old baptist church and continues onward with his immersive religious lifestyle there. To the degree ,this qualifies for some help from the Monroe lifeline program to help break down this endless belief cycle and steer the man toward a more productive spiritual growth set up for his next incarnation.

2) This one actually has been a story tom has told in the few of the videos about the transitional reality frame :
It was about the man who was told not to take his boat out in a dangerous approaching storm . He does so anyways and ends up killing his entire family and himself on his boat by drowning eventually. He ends up reliving this awful boat accident experience over and over again because of his strong feelings and guilt 9in the transitional reality) until Tom eventually shows up on the boat with him and rescues him from this endlss belief based cycle that he has created for himself.

So i think ( at least in my 2 examples) it does seem like these 2 individuals , whom held a strong belief systems or obsessions. had the larger impact on these individuals subjective realities they experienced rather than whatever the LCS had intended was best for them .

I am suggesting there is some carry over effect which is possible from life to transitional reality, than to the next life...based on our own belief system we have created .


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:58 am 
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Quote:

I am suggesting there is some carry over effect which is possible from life to transitional reality, than to the next life...based on our own belief system we have created .
Brian, in the following video Tom speaks to the issue of reincarnation:

Reincarnation

According to MBT theory, what happens to us after death is largely dependent upon whether we operate at an intellectual level awareness or a being level awareness before the transition. Tom discusses this in the video. Reading your post, it appears that you seem to operate at the intellectual level. Are you a human having a consciousness (intellectual) experience or a Consciousness (being) having a human experience? Only you can answer that question. Of course, an open minded and skeptical human or being.

John


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:46 am 
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I'll give you a few quotes from Tom and see if that helps.

Tom at Unity Church Part 2 – Atlanta, GA 6/9/12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaeDjSQwOvA

Question: You die and you refocus from this data stream into the data stream for people who have just died for you to figure it out. And you finally figure out what is going on and you refocus to your oversoul, your IUOC and you do a life review. Do all your cultural biases then drop away? In other words you’ve been the King of Greece and when you’re up there looking at your life review you know now that being a king wasn’t being any more than being the grocer. Do you understand at that level all those political and religious and all those biases are all dropped away and that’s how you review your life?

Tom: Yes, for the most part they all do drop away. And you see it without those prejudices.


So you see that the man who was a religious fanatic will no longer be one when he dies. However, his fear that drove him to be a fundamentalist Baptist will be reflected in his QoC. And born in the Middle East next time he may end up as a female Muslim suicide bomber. Because the same fears translated into a similar circumstance in a different place and with a different religions. But this is about fear and high entropy and not about religion.

TOM:
You are consciousness, and you'd like to get into this virtual reality experience game. You're looking for an open slot to get in. You can look at all of the various potentials out there that suit you. Here's a child, and because of the parents that are producing this child, you have a certain genetic set that will give you some limitations. These are limitations in terms of probability. That’s like the character in World of Warcraft. You can’t just pick anything. You’re limited with the kind of things and combinations that you can pick. There’s limitations. But within those limitations there's lots of probability, and chance, that this might happen or that might happen. You look at the potential of it and you say, “Okay, this one suits me. Of all the potentials that are in this virtual reality game, that's a potential that’ll suit my next incarnation pretty well - reasonably well.” Sure there's some unknowns to it, and there’s some chances about the way things might go together or turn out. You can’t eliminate all the variables. This is not a deterministic exercise. This is a probabilistic reality where you play the game and you take your chances.

You as a consciousness are also information. You're also memory and experience. All the things you've ever thought, done, and said. You are all the quality you’ve accumulated up to this time. You can reduced that all to information. Information that describes you uniquely. You are your experience and your choices. You can take that information and insert it into this potential being. It is just like picking the characteristics of your virtual avatar in your computer game. Once you've done that your information has become “uploaded to,” “injected into,” (this is a metaphor, so however you want to put this,) into this potential being.

Tom Campbell: Life Between Lives as Consciousness 9/29/12
viewtopic.php?f=259&t=8468&p=89254&hili ... ess#p89254

Your next experience packet is more about what circumstances will fit with the challenges you want to meet in your next life. So if music always helps you evolve, you may want a couple that is musical themselves. Or a couple that has the open mindedness to let you develop your musical abilities.

Fireside Chats March 2015
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugnLaph47t8
35:15 Conscious life in other places than just planet Earth & reincarnation habits


As for the FWAU that is in a dead end loop of its own making - Tom has said that this retrieval is more for the person helping than the FWAU. The LCS is more than capable of retrieving an FWAU. But it can be a valuable experience for the person helping.

As for my personal experiences, I have done over 25 past life regressions. Only 3 of my lives that I uncovered were in the US. And one was as an Indian long before the white settlers. Others were in China, France, Italy, Scotland, and South America. That's all I can remember without pulling my journal out.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:11 am 
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Thanks for your replies :)

John,

I agree with your assessment much (if not all of my posting) , derived from the intellect level, thanks !

Linda,

thanks for all those helpful links + Tom quotes..
I have not gotten around to all the video snippet links as yet, but hopefully today , and Ill post again im sure in response to those..

but just off the top of my head ,
Yes i do see now how it would be quite unlikely my description of the charismatic Baptist man continuation of his christian lifestyle right into the transition,

But not sure this second example, of the story Tom tells of the man stuck with the boat tragedy loop in the transition until finally he is rescued by Tom.
Clearly in this instance his memories did not fade of PMR in the normal way ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:40 am 
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Quote:
Thanks for your replies :)

John,

I agree with your assessment much (if not all of my posting) , derived from the intellect level, thanks !

Linda,

thanks for all those helpful links + Tom quotes..
I have not gotten around to all the video snippet links as yet, but hopefully today , and Ill post again im sure in response to those..

but just off the top of my head ,
Yes i do see now how it would be quite unlikely my description of the charismatic Baptist man continuation of his christian lifestyle right into the transition,

But not sure this second example, of the story Tom tells of the man stuck with the boat tragedy loop in the transition until finally he is rescued by Tom.
Clearly in this instance his memories did not fade of PMR in the normal way ?
There is what is known as the triangle of victimization. The base is being the victim, one side is being the perpetrator and the other side is being the savior.

The wheels on the bus go round and round.

It’s eaiser in NPMR. Just drop em off at the station. ;)


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