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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:19 pm 
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I have an interesting experience I would like to share here. You often hear people say that if all this psychic stuff is real, then why hasn't someone used it to win the lottery. There is even a commercial from one of the wireless phone companies making a joke about this. I believe Tom's psi uncertainty principle explains it pretty well. But here is my personal experience.

I have been trying to be more open to guidance from NPMR for some time now. In 2005, I had called my brother to give him some numbers to buy a Powerball lottery ticket for me. I figured I would try to get some guidance on the matter so I closed my eyes and tried to say what numbers came to me. My numbers were:
07 13 29 34 45 and the powerball was 23.

Now here comes the weird part. The winning numbers were:
08 14 38 35 46 and the powerball was 24.

Notice all of the numbers but one are off by exactly one and mine were always one below the winning numbers. For the longest time I thought that the middle number was just way off but if you look (29 and 38) each digit is only one off. This has to be beyond simple coincidence. Needless to say, I was blown away. The message was loud and clear. "This stuff is real, trust your guidance but...we are not going to help you win the lottery."


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:54 pm 
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Ramon,

That was a really impressive instance of intuition. Also some really serious feedback you got. And I would say that your interpretation is good as well. I tie it into a number of things. For one, it isn't that they won't help you win the lottery, it is that they can't without interfering in the course of someone elses life who had winning the lottery as part of the lifetime they chose to live in PMR while they were in NPMR. This is probably the kind of thing that we would know about in advance, but are also going to forget as part of the plan. Tom describes how we do choose our PMR lives while in NPMR as providing the optimum opportunities for learning and development to match our needs. If the life you chose didn't include a major windfall like winning a major lottery, or perhaps not yet, then doing so by the aid of your guides or intuition would be a major interference with the free will of whoever would have otherwise won or would have had a larger share.

Second, they, whoever was the source of your 'intuition' in this case, have shown you just how much they (or you) can potentially do for you and how you must think about what you ask for if it is something specific. You can't expect to get something that is detrimental to another. You have free will and can ask, but anyone in the position of offering you guidance is not likely to violate the free will choice of someone else for your benifit. Even those who choose to do evil have the right to try when we all have Absolute Free Will. But their intended victim(s) has the free will right to oppose them. You can get help in protecting yourself or others. So guide your choice in making a request by seeing that it does not take a benefit from someone else. But don't hesitate to seek help to oppose someone that is trying to control you and your free will in some way, perhaps by taking something from you. As another aspect of this, consider how intertwined your life is with others. Making a change in your life that also affects the lives of others so intertwined, will be effectively resisted by these ties, the rights and expectations of others. Think of this too in asking for aid in changing your life for instance.

Third, if you can get this result by just guessing a string of numbers, realize how much more you can do with regular meditation aimed at opening up a good communication channel between yourself and the guidance available to you. There is no fixed way for this to manifest itself. It may come as some kind of feedback signal that you can recognize. It may develop into a conscious dialogue that you can participate in as a clear conversation. This will develop over time. And anyone can do this to one degree or another. I would say that this is part of what Tom had in mind by making his books so accessible to such a wide range of persons of differing education and background. And OOBE is not the only goal and not everyone is equipped to go out and evaluate directly the metaphysics of the greater reality Tom described. Individually it is more a matter of connecting with that greater reality in order to live our lives more fully and learn more completely what they are intended to teach us. And when you make this connection and observe that it is real, you have proven your individual TOE just as much as someone that goes out and finds on their own the same thing that Tom reports.

Ted Vollers


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 Post subject: Winning the real lottery
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:14 pm 
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Ted,
Thank you so much for the kind and very insightful reply.
This experience was exactly what you said. It showed me exactly how much this guidance was capable of. It broke down a lot of barriers in my world view. I mean, I always theoretically believed in these things but here was some good concrete evidence (to me) that I was on the right track. I also agree that you should be very careful what you focus your intent on. I have rededicated myself to contacting the greater reality lately. My guidance usually comes in the form of subtle urgings I find it best to follow. Direct data dumps very rarely. It is just a feeling I have learned to recognize.
I don't have any answers on where this guidance comes from. I haven't gotten that far. It seems that it can come from so many sources that it might be hard to ever really know for sure. Tom talked some about that in a reply to one of my other posts. He basically said it can take whatever form is necessary to reach you. The difference in sources is really unimportant from a higher viewpoint.
I liken this situation with the lottery ticket to people who pray for their sports team to win the championship. What of all the others praying for the opposite outcome? Should your prayer be more important than others? The scary thing is some will say yes.
I will not be seeking guidance on any more lottery tickets. I still purchase one every now and then but I know it will happen only if meant to. If I win I could spend more time contemplating "my" big TOE!
Ramon


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:30 pm 
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Below is an email I sent out some time ago in answer to an inquiry about the possibility of winning the lottery using knowledge of future probable realities -- this seems to be a good place to share it:

Individually, guides (or the system) can selectively shut you out of (deny your access to) counterproductive activity. I heard a story where a particularly gifted individual would write lotto numbers down and place them in an envelope in a safe to which he did not have access. After the numbers were announced they would take the envelope out of the safe and see if he was right. He often guessed the numbers correctly. However if he tried to guess the numbers and then buy a lotto ticket (or show them to others so they could buy tickets), he never guessed correctly. Accurately determining the numbers (at least sometimes) was evidently permitted, while using the numbers to win money was not permitted. Using the powers of your consciousness directly for personal physical/ego/money gain for yourself or others seems to be limited by the system.

I have found that if there is information that you would use in a way that your having it would be detrimental (or even just not helpful) to your growth or the growth of others it is often placed out of your reach (you are denied access). Like putting guns or bags of marshmallows away from where young children cannot access them. PMR is full of "children" (low level consciousness) so it would not be surprising to find rules (like psi uncertainty) that limit chaos to a workable level by maintaining the PMR learning lab as a shared objective reality frame.

Tom C


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 Post subject: Access Denied
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:26 pm 
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Tom,
I don't know how much you have read about Edgar Cayce but similar themes were common. In the pursuit of funding for a Hospital to apply the information from the readings various activities were undertaken to make money. For instance, information was sought from "the Source" about where to drill for oil and things just always went awry. Sometimes even in bizarre ways. The Source was questioned about the failure and replied that some of those involved didn't have the proper motives or attitudes and that is why they failed. The stock market was a similar aggravation. The Cayce information was amazing in many aspects. The crash of '29 was accurately predicted but money making schemes just never worked quite like planned, all because of the intentions of some of those involved.
I think that's why I didn't win the lottery. MY WIFE'S intentions weren't quite proper. At least I blame it on her anyway. Man, I'm glad she doesn't read this board. Joking by the way.
Ramon


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:50 pm 
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Ramon,

That's risky blaming your wife like that -- I always blame my dog -- he could care less about TOEs and never participates in discussion boards not on the subject of snacks.

Even if all around Cayce were pure of intent, the money making schemes would still have failed. A success would have been both dramatic and chaotic within the culture thereby focusing greed in insufferable and perhaps dangerous amounts upon Cayce and his work. The Psi Uncertainty Principle would not let that happen. The calculation of the probable positive and negative impact on the entire OS consciousness system takes more into account than just Cayce and his friends. No doubt Cayce and everyone else in OS was better served by his failure to raise funds paranormally.

Tom C


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:15 am 
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I think I can answer the Lottery Question in simple terms. Let's say our Lottery is the Two Slit experiment. We set it up so that everyone in the lab can put money on the left slit or the right slit. So you decide to "go psi" and take a peek at the slits future before placing your bet. Big mistake! Until you "looked" your odds were 50/50 just like everybody else. Once you "looked", you colapsed the wave function!! But you bet any way, not realizing that you just altered the outcome. And what happens? You get caught cheating that's what happens! The electron flys through the slit you "saw" and forms a dot on the screen. Everybody else in the lab yells CHEAT! because there should have been a wave function not a particle! But wait! There's more! Mabey the electron goes through the other slit instead. Why? Because YOU already collapsed the wave function for the other possibility! So the only one left is the other choice. When you examine this game, you realize that it is a stupid bet! If the game is fair, everybody wins, because the test of fairness is the existance of the wave function. If there is ANY definative outcome in this game, SOMEBODY CHEATED!

The lottery, craps, cards, in fact all of creation, works by these same rules. You can only get a hint of the possibilities, but any action or foreknowledge affects the probability function of that possibility, and thus changes the outcome of what is Actualized in any given moment. Think of your actualized reallity like the two slit experiment. Once you KNOW you change the outcome, even if you KNOW BEFORE the actuality! Trying to grab the outcome before it is actualized is like trying to catch a greased pig, or your cat trying to "catch" the laser dot!

If you toss a coin 100 times, you will get one string of 6 or 7 in a row. I know this because it is a calculated probability. It will probably happen. But If I were to "look" ahead of time and "see" the outcome of my coin toss, I would get a different sequence for my actualized toss. I would still get 6 or 7 in a row in 100 tosses, just not the same sequence. Why? Because the odds didn't change, the possible outcomes changed by my looking, but the possible outcomes for the system are limited and so the actual outcome shifted to adjust to my knowledge, effectively negating my attempt at knowing. Like sqeezing a bar of soap, it slips away as fast as you can grab it!

I don't have any experience in psi future viewing. I have a lot of experience gambling! And what I know is that I can not KNOW! I CAN guess! I CAN calculate! I CAN "listen" to my guts! So my advice to anyone planning to use psi for gambling is "KEEP IT VAGUE". The less you know, the more you know! Hows that for a catch 22!

This is the kind of stuff I figured out for myself before I heard of Tom. I already had reached these conclusions about the realm of possibility, the realm of probability and actuality, and the realm of the historical. I'm learning now how to access these directly, but I already know I won't be winning the lottery with it!

I look at these realms in this way:
Possibilty = All calculable Outcomes
Probability = A measure of a possibilities(singular possesive) distance from actuality or it's potential to reach actuality.
Actuality = Knowledge
History = All knowledge of the possibility that actualized and the possibilities that did not actualize.

If you "look" at a lottery, you are affecting it's probability, by affecting it's potential. You "Actually" alter it by looking, because the looking is an actuality just like the outcome! OOOps. You can't sneak a peek in a system that knows your every move! So don't look so closely at it. Look at the shadows it casts, and infer. If you look at it directly, you lose, because you know too much.

That's my two cents.

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:00 pm 
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Now I have to add another couple of "cents". What if you know the history? The Casinos are very aware of effect that actualization has on future outcomes. They know that a deck of cards or a pair of dice has a history all it's own. The Lottery people know this too. They know that as each set of possible outcomes is actualized, that actualization affects the possible future outcomes. This is why they change the machine and the set of balls that is used to draw each lottery. This is why they change the dice at the craps tables every 15min or so. Each combination of dice, machines, balls, cards etc. has it's own realm of possible outcomes and that realm decreases in size as these things are played. So they change them out for new ones in order to bring a larger set of possibilities into play.

The more that is known about a system's actual outcomes, the more that can be inferred about it's probable future. Take a pair of dice. Roll those dice over and over again, and you will compile a history for the outcomes that that pair of dice can produce. Eventually, you can predict with some degree of certainty what those dice will do next. This is inference, but because the realm of possibility is influenced by the realm of historical actuality, the inferences that can be made become more accurate.

Try the coin toss. If you have thrown the coin 50 times and have yet to get 6 or 7 in a row heads or tails, then you can infer that you will get 6 or 7 in a row before you reach your 100th toss. The Casinos know that if you change coins, at 50 tosses, all bets are off! The new coin will generate it's own actualized history and may not hit 6 or 7 in a row in the next 50 tosses, but it will very likely do so in the next 100!

If I were going to use psi to gamble, I would be much more interested in viewing the actualized history and infer an outcome from that, than I would be in looking at the unactualized potential. But then, who needs psi for that?

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:13 am 
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twcjr said...
I have found that if there is information that you would use in a way that your having it would be detrimental (or even just not helpful) to your growth or the growth of others it is often placed out of your reach (you are denied access). Like putting guns or bags of marshmallows away from where young children cannot access them.

Brian said...
Hi there, I just wanted to ask a question about this statement. Basically this is another version of the "god's will" theory of why things happen or don't happen. This version is very popular among New Agers (not that anyone here is necessarily a "new ager" though). I just wonder why such a mechanism doesn't always work. Plenty of people go to their graves full of fear and regret, their growth stunted and lives wasted...and nothing stepped in and stopped them. Also, you can find articles on news sites of people who actually wish they hadn't won the lottery, apparently no force intervened to prevent them from winning in the first place.
So, do you believe that there are consistent fail safe mechanisms in the universe or are you saying that there are mechanisms that only *sometimes* intervene?

PS sorry if I have the quote thing wrong, I saw that the quote mark up was appearing as text, so I'm improvising.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:17 am 
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Brian Now,

You might find your answer by re reading this thread. This is probably not related to the "god's Will" theory that you refer to but do not explain. In MBT cosmology there is no God as the term is normally used. We started out talking about making a request for information or obtaining information 'to win the lottery' by intuition or a request for information from the NPMR level, your guides. The request will not be granted if the result would be detrimental to you or others for reasons discussed above. This is not a matter of someone just failing to live their lives well. Living through PMR's problems the best way that you can is the name of the game. You are permitted to fail. And death is not the end of existence. You can try again in another life. Information is available to you interactively that would help you if you paid attention and made use of it. But no one is going to force you to listen. It's all about free will. There are consistent mechanisms in Ultimate Reality (what exactly do you mean by the universe?) that provide interaction, advice, warnings and much more if you will learn to participate. But there are no 'fail safe' mechanisms, no forced intervention that is 'consistent' on a basis guaranteed to meet your personal expectations.

We are talking apples versus oranges to so much a degree that I don't see how you can be answered further.

Ted Vollers


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:47 am 
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Ted, I have already read the previous posts, but I am not sure you understood mine.
No matter though, my question was for Tom and I am in no rush for an answer.
Thanks for your response.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:54 pm 
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Brian Now: "Also, you can find articles on news sites of people who actually wish they hadn't won the lottery, apparently no force intervened to prevent them from winning in the first place."

Perhaps the growth they obtained from winning the lottery was realizing that money is not necessarily the answer to life's problems. I think we are given opportunities all of the time for growth. It is all about how you take advantage of those opportunities. They could say, "Okay. Money isn't the answer. Now I can quit worrying about winning the lottery and improve myself."

Brian Now: "Plenty of people go to their graves full of fear and regret, their growth stunted and lives wasted..."

Lives wasted = opportunities wasted. The "universe" or "God's will" isn't that our lives are always happy or perfect but if those people had taken advantage of the opportunities for growth (which can be found in ALL situations) then their lives would hardly be wasted. I think that is what the universe provides consistently. Opportunities for growth. The universe provides these...the people mentioned above supplied all of the fear and regret. Personal responsibility rules the day.
I know this isn't Tom's answer but just wanted to share my thoughts.

Ramon


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:55 pm 
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Brian: Basically this is another version of the "god's will" theory of why things happen or don't happen

Tom: Bryan, you appear to make that statement with confidence and conviction.
Nevertheless, it is nothing of the sort. Not even close - no connection whatsoever (except perhaps that what I was talking about and the "god's will" theory of why things happen are directly opposite and incompatible concepts). However, it is easy to make that mistake if you haven't read MBT and do not understand its point of view. The concept I was talking about is closer to the aid you might occasionally receive from a friend or family member than some pervasive God's will concept where Big Daddy takes care of his pet people.

Brian: I just wonder why such a mechanism doesn't always work.

Tom: That's easy. I hate to have to tell you this, but That mechanism doesn't exist. More like the opposite exists -- you are solely responsible for every intent you have and every action you take. the "Access denied" I was talking about was not big daddy taking care of you to make you happy -- it was an artifact of the way the larger system of consciousness works. Like when your computer at work refuses to let you download software -- it is not trying to save you from a bad software experience -- it couldn't care less what your issues are -- you are simply denied access because of corporate policy -- nothing personal -- Corporate is not trying to make you happy or aggravate you. However if your ego is big enough, you may think that they are. That is how some of the New Agers you refer to end up feeling "taken care of". Others have friends in influential positions.

Brian: So, do you believe that there are consistent fail safe mechanisms in the universe or are you saying that there are mechanisms that only *sometimes* intervene?

Tom: of course there are consistent mechanism in the universe. If there were not, the universe would be random. Physics is one of those consistent mechanisms. That you are alone responsible for yourself is another. That there is no free lunch is yet another. Your concept of a big Daddy either always or sometimes intervening is so far afield of what MBT is about that it is like asking an automobile if its legs hurt -- a question that is very hard to answer directly when somebody has the belief constructs that lead them to ask it seriously. That is at least one reason why you had a hard time seeing the relevance of Ted's answer -- his answer didn't compute within your context or experience.

Such mistakes/assumptions/beliefs are easy to make because MBT takes such a unique approach and most of us have a tendency to place new things (nothing is really new, right? It's just the same old stuff repackaged) into old pigeon holes -- a process that can be generally useful, but fails to provide any conceptual traction in this case.

Tom C


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:40 pm 
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All I know is that you have to buy/get a ticket to have ANY probability of winning. It's like me dropping a stool softener pill and not being able to find it, and having my cat find it, bite it open with the medication causing it to appear to be rabid or having a stroke drooling at the mouth. Without the available probability existing of it being not a stroke or rabies of that pill being on the floor some other reality would have collapsed and my kitty would be dead or rabies or stroke. I'm just saying. I buy the ticket ($4 a week) but just stick them in my purse and check them when I get a chance. I always wonder if I should look and try and manifest or something, but I don't ever do it. I do always say, "I'd like one winning lottery ticket please" when buying them.
Love
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:08 pm 
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Got to buy one so your dreams have some kind of substance. Yet I knew there was no chance of me ever truly winning. Still a small price to pay for a moments entertainment.

However I'm glad I never won...

http://lottoreport.com/sadbuttrue.htm

The only reason I want to play now is to create a fund that will help people get out of debt (not a penny for myself). Something on the lines of a credit union to create 1% loans or something small for those that have lost their jobs. If you think about it, what if everyone would give that dollar to the fund instead of the lotto, how easy it would be to fix our current crises. BUT! most of us just don't work that way, and so it would go to the lotto, because in the end it's about us and not everyone else.

To be poor and free, or rich and bound.


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