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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:28 pm 
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Hello Tom,

Your books have opened me up to a whole new universe I always thought existed. I really can not get enough of your words and how well thought out everything your write about is.

I have a minor problem though. When I was 15, I was attacked by another being. I couldn't see it, but I could feel it on me, and I saw the physcial effects of it (Scratches on body, being choked, body felt like it was on fire).

For years, I have no idea what it was and just thought it was a demon. I lived in fear for a LONG time never wanting to experience it again.

Right after you're coast to coast interview, I had my first encounter with OOBE. I got to the vibration stage and started to come out. It scared me to death.

Well, since then, I have put my fear to the side and have felt more comfortable with OOBE, but still have not yet fully come out of my body. I know with time and experience, I will get there once I release every ounce of fear in me.

Anyway, by question is, can other dimensional beings directly effect how our physcial world is operated, through Government, Religion, etc?.

I hear alot about the "Spirit of Nimrod" and how it has played a roll in the downfall of a few empires in the past. It is human contact with other beings that allows our physcial reality to be effected, or is it out of our control when another being plays around in our reality?

Maybe I can find the answer myself, but I'm still breaking out of ALOT of religious Dogma. That's not the hard part, the hard part is trying to understand how I was physically effected by a being from another dimension. Or was it really even a being? Was it something I had control over the whole time?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:45 pm 
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TobyH,

Since for years you thought it was just a demon, I assume it took place entirely in NPMR but your description is not clear to me.

Before I can tell you what was most likely going on, I need to know more about the attack. How/why did it start, why did it end, what was its outcome in NPMR. What was the result in PMR? Did it take place in NPMR or PMR? Were the scratches observed from NPMR or did they persist in PMR (for how long). Any pertinent history e.g., major issues you were dealing with before it happened?

Mostly NPMR beings, both positive and negative, try to influence (indirect meddling) the intent and thus subsequent action of selected PMR beings. However, there is very little that is impossible -- rules or no rules -- but most of the most intrusive (rule breaking) stuff is relegated to the margins. Claiming that "the devil made me do it" has been a lame excuse/joke for millennia. One typically has many influences from many directions, but must take responsibility for ones intent and actions.

Tom


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:53 pm 
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Tom, sorry for not being more descriptive.

I grew up in a very christian household. Very loving, but very restrictive.

This was not a dream, it was real and it happened from the perspective of 3 other people.

One night while, my dad started to pray like he did with us before we went to bed. As soon as he started, I felt something "jump" on me. I jumped out of my bed thinking I was literally on fire. I couldn't breathe. I felt it on me, so I ran to the mirror, and my body was covered in scratches...kind of like cat scratches. My mom, dad and brother all witnessed it and still remember it to this day. All they did was pray, and everything went away...including the physical scratches. The only thing my parents did not witness, was the physical weight I felt and the feeling of being on fire.

The only reason I want to figure out what happened, and why, is because I fell like it's keeping me from experiencing a full OOBE...because it's always in the back of my mind. The skeptic in me keeps thinking "what if the bible is right, and Tom isnt" (No offense).

I never remember negative dreams. I never experience other beings in dreams (or I cant remember them). But I always "feel" them in the vibration stage before OOBE. One time after I felt one on me, I told it to go away, and it left. That was the FIRST time I started to every feel any conscious vibrations while in bed. I'm not saying it was a negative thing though, because it opened me up.

After that, I can now almost get to the vibration stage at will and it's so relaxing and "free" feeling. But I always snap out of it after hearing things I associate with beings I fear will play with me in a way that I will never want to experience an OOBE again. I know it's a wrong mindset, but I'm still breaking down walls and barriers in my own experience.

I don't "fear" these beings, beause I know I have control over them. I'm just trying to get past my perception of what their intent is, so I can be comfortable if I ever do meet them again.

I'm just looking for answers that will bring more discovery.

Thank you much for the replies.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:11 pm 
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TobyH,

Quite a powerful experience.

What happened and why:
Something like being mugged in the park in broad daylight because you were wearing the symbols of a group held in contempt by some low life street thugs. These things can happen but only do happen very, very rarely. In your case, the walk in the park was you zoning out and slipping into an altered state that left you drifting weakly in both realities at the same time, the offending symbols were the religiosity and praying of your family, the entity that jumped on you was a low life street thug from NPMR. The rules were not as well enforced then as they are now. The incident has now been reported and consequences meted out. You won't be bothered again by that thug.

You must not let your fear keep you from walking in the park -- that would be the worst possible outcome. A random act of violence -- it happens -- Let it go. Acient history.

Now your problem is not the rare street thug flaunting the law but your fear -- you will have to come to terms with your fear and that undoing may play out in a series of preparatory dreams and/or in an NPMR encounter -- but it will be your fear that you must fight and conquer not a thug, no matter what it looks, feels, and acts like. Meet it with fearless determination and unyielding strength of intent and you will necessarily prevail — and destroy the fear. A warrior does not fear the consequences of battle because he has already accepted them however they work out. Knowing that this encounter is coming and must happen to remove the obstacle now in your path, is what is twisting your tail and pushing you forward (a disquiting, unsettling sense of something needing to be done)

An important tactic: Be pro-active -- prepare yourself adequately and challenge it -- rather than waiting for it to come and get you (force you into an unprepared confrontation with your fear)

Tom C


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:05 am 
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Wow, just wow.

You hit the spot so dead on. That made so much sense, I really don't know why I didn't think of it before. Something just...clicked.

Not to get off topic that much, but I am a Soldier who has been to Iraq, and is about to go again in the next few months. I don't see myself as a "warrior", I do a job. But I have faced alot of real fear with result and I am proud of that. The other big "fear" was ajusting to society when I got back. It has been VERY hard, but this year has forced me to face alot of fear of the "unknown" in my personal life. Even though people think Soldiers are fearless drones, we're all very, very effected by our experience "over there". But we do it and move on.

The idea that I could parallel my experience in PMR, to my experience in NPMR, is still something I am grasping since I started reading "Awakening" (Which I am still currently reading and experiencing ALOT of incredible results. It's overwhelming).

I see your books as the biggest education I could afford right now. I really, really appreciate the replies and putting things in perspective.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:18 am 
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TobyH,

Theory often makes more sense in terms of concrete examples. To help you and others who might read this understand some of the practical applications of any consciousness that is aware in the Big Picture, I have decided, this once (somewhat against my better judgment), to explain: What I said clicked with your inner knowledge because I wasn't guessing. I "traveled" (queried the database -- you'll find out about that in Book 3) to the time and place of your frightening encounter and watched it take place from both PMR and NPMR simultaneously. Then looked at the circumstances that led to it being actualized and probed the mind set (thoughts) of all involved. Finally, I explained my experience in a way that made sense to you. One does not intellectually think up a Big TOE, or see the Big Picture from the outside -- one lives in it and experiences it from the inside as an integral part of ones being.

I have confused you a little with using the word warrior. I hope this helps you understand the special way in which I use that word. When the issues defining and necessitating battle are integral to your being, a warriors approach is the most (often the only) successful approach. When the issues defining and necessitating battle are someone else’s, you are a soldier supporting the cause.

Sometimes the two can logically overlap but in modern warfare that happens less frequently.

Honorable soldiering is an honorable profession and requires one to conquer their fear (be brave) to be effective in well organized larger scale (many participants) conflicts. Being a warrior, as I use the term, is more personal, an approach of being, an expression of acceptance, detachment, and fearlessness within the heart and soul as well as the mind. A warrior is in balance and at peace internally. A brave, honorable, and effective soldier on the other hand must control his fear and sharpen his mental focus to optimize a team effort. Soldiers are for fighting wars; being an honorable warrior is an optimal approach to life, a way of being.

Tom C


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:27 pm 
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Tom, I'm not making this up, but I pretty much knew you had probably traveled to the event, (or even looked into my present life?). Yesterday was a very odd day. I felt like I was in a lucid dream all day, and could not snap out of it. I knew it meant something, so I worked through it. It was very difficult, especially at work.

Your answer put my fear into perspective, but it's wasn't that hard to accept. Which tells me I knew it all long. I just needed a little push into the water from you. Thank you for that.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:37 pm 
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TobyH,

Glad you found the information useful -- news you can (and do) use -- that's the point of this forum.

From beginning to end, my viewing of your history file took about 5 minutes. If you are very sensitive intuitively, you may have experienced some residual of my interest but all day long is pretty unusual. Perhaps something else was going on -- like preparation for the impending confrontation with your fear prompted by my digging around in that subject matter.

Yes, you did have all the answers inside -- sometimes all it takes to knock them loose is a little form and structure to facilitate expression within a rational context.

Good luck with all your challenges and opportunities -- may you end up in the place you wish to be.

Tom C


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:47 am 
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I'm deeply grateful to both of you for this discussion. I've been trying to understand a similar attack in the context of a lot of related events, from 30 years ago. It was more like a female succubus, that tried it on with me, but also got its hands round my throat to strangle me. I was shocked, but it wasn't as violent as TobyH's visitor. I was also seeing apparitions (friends, relatives). And the sequences of questions that Tom mentions in section 1. Each night I'd try to go to sleep, but end up wide awake. I would zip through a question series, and go through a portal, where there were beings whose language was incomparably more rarified than ours, so I had to strain to catch their drift. Eventually they told me they were performing an operation on my mentation, which went on over several days. But it turned sour - I eventually felt the questioners had been replaced with fakes.

And I've avoided OOBEs since then - even with the Monroe tapes. At the time I was trying to study comparative religion and spirituality seriously, after an atheist upbringing. I was told later by a spiritual teacher that I'd undergone a premature kundalini awakening, but I don't know if that's an adequate explanation. I wonder if there's a self-protective mechanism here? Why have all the main mystical traditions discouraged psi exploration, claiming it's a distraction from achieving unity, or whatever? Was it really just to hang on to power, and control access to higher states? Tom's news that this zone is policed better now than before has to be related, surely?

Mike


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:49 pm 
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Tom, I'm seeing results. They're slow but sure. I had a great meditation session today where I "woke up" in a fully conscious state, but lost it due to excitment. That's the next step, keeping control and exploring.

Thank you again.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:05 pm 
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Tom, in one of your replies, you said, "I "traveled" (queried the database -- you'll find out about that in Book 3) to the time and place of your frightening encounter and watched it take place from both PMR and NPMR simultaneously."

Is this the same as the Akoshic (sp?) records that I have heard some about?

Thanks...chris


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:22 am 
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Chris,

The concept of Akashic records is a derivative of the same truth. In MBT Book 3 the idea of reality as a digital information system gets very specific about the un-actualized past, actualized past, and probable future data bases containing al the OS state vectors since the beginning -- what is in the databases, how one accesses them, and their limitations. At the same time, an explanation of “everything that could happen does happen“ produces a logical bounded solution the "many worlds" problem within quantum mechanics. The Akashic records represent a generalized, fuzzy, high level concept of that same feature of reality.

Tom


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:46 am 
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About a month ago I asked:
"Why have all the main mystical traditions discouraged psi exploration, claiming it's a distraction from achieving unity, or whatever? Was it really just to hang on to power, and control access to higher states? Tom's news that this zone is policed better now than before has to be related, surely?"

I wasn't musing or being rhetorical. Tom has made a striking observation that "The rules were not as well enforced then as they are now. The incident has now been reported and consequences meted out." Thus bringing change (historical development) into a metaphysical arena usually assumed to stand outside of time and history. Can you expand on this, Tom? I still need to understand the experiences I wrote about, but I need more convincing that further psychic exploration is the way to go.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:38 pm 
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Monty,

Tom: I did not respond to your first post because I did not understand your question well enough to make a coherent or useful reply — I wondered if there really was a question and thought that perhaps you were simply making a statement. I understand your issue somewhat better now, and since you have explained that you weren't musing or being rhetorical — an answer is indeed needed.

Monty: "Why have all the main mystical traditions discouraged psi exploration, claiming it's a distraction from achieving unity, or whatever? Was it really just to hang on to power, and control access to higher states? Tom's news that this zone is policed better now than before has to be related, surely?"

Tom: Mystical groups, if they have any deep understanding of the nature of reality, would not, or at least should not, discourage psi exploration. They should discourage psi fascination that springs from an ego’s need for power, psi obsession, and a pursuit of psi phenomena that are disconnected from a program of personal growth and from a better understanding/appreciation of the nature of the larger reality. In discouraging these nonproductive interests in psi, one may inadvertently appear to be discouraging all interest in psi exploration — a simple misunderstanding. Or some mystical groups may not have a deep understanding of the nature of reality and discourage psi exploration because it falls outside of their dogma and they do not comprehend how it is an integral part of existence as consciousness.

Anyone who would discourage psi exploration “to hang on to power and control access to higher states“ is nothing more than a common hustler serving the needs of his ego, and has nothing to do with actual learning, mysticism, spirituality, or understanding the larger reality. Hustlers abound in religious, mystical, political, and marketing organizations. The manipulation of others for personal gain is not on anyone’s path to higher states. How: “news that this zone is policed better now than before “ could possibly be related to a simple misunderstanding or to hustlers manipulating the gullible is not at all clear to me.

What’s different: A change in NPMRN administration delivered, among other things, a new attitude toward enforcing the existing rules) — result: the system tightened up a bit. From my viewpoint, a welcome change — however, it will take a long time to assess the impact of the changes.

Monty: Thus bringing change (historical development) into a metaphysical arena usually assumed to stand outside of time and history.

Tom: Anyone who believes that NPMR (a if not the metaphysical arena in most folks experience) has no time or history is ignorant of how the larger reality works. NPMR is a virtual reality with a time, history, and purpose of its own just as PMR is a virtual reality with a time, history, and purpose of its own. MBT explains all this in great detail.

Monty: I've been trying to understand a similar attack in the context of a lot of related events, from 30 years ago. It was more like a female succubus, that tried it on with me, but also got its hands round my throat to strangle me.

Tom: This was a learning experience about the downside of casual, ego motivated sex. (Here I am using “ego“ as defined in MBT — intent motivated by attachment to the needs, wants, inclinations, expectations, and desires of I). Whether it was more a random mugging or set up by your guides as an educational experience, or both is hard to say. No danger — just an in-your-face lesson.
Monty: I would zip through a question series, and go through a portal, where there were beings whose language was incomparably more rarified than ours, so I had to strain to catch their drift. Eventually they told me they were performing an operation on my mentation, which went on over several days. But it turned sour - I eventually felt the questioners had been replaced with fakes.

Tom: As you say, you were selected, taken, and modified. The modification was not hostile or unfriendly, its purpose was to open you to a more robust and articulated interaction — i.e., to raise your awareness in a very particular and somewhat narrow sense. It was not necessarily just for your benefit either. You, with your new awareness, were to be used — it was functional to their purpose. The training and subsequent using was neither particularly negative (harmful) nor particularly positive though it would have provided you substantial opportunity to develop yourself in other ways that could have been positive or negative. With such opportunity comes risk. For reasons of their own they found you to be not optimally suitable to their purpose. You were dropped from their interest. The rest (“questioners replaced by fakes“) and an uneasy feeling that urged you to withdraw were part of the “don't call us, we’ll call you “ brush off that was their way of ending the interaction — rather abrupt, without explanation, and with uneasy creepy feelings of something gone very wrong tossed in — their message was “go away and don't come back“, you interpreted the message as the deal “went sour“, because it was not turning out the way you thought or expected (the way they had led you to believe), and you began to feel lucky to get disconnected after they turned out to be a little sinister and weird — not like they had promised at all. No danger, they just had a pretty brusque and insensitive way of culling rejects out their potential recruits. There is no need or purpose to tell more.

Tom C


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:14 am 
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Tom

I was wondering how to find out for myself, and didn't imagine you would take a personal interest or spend your time investigating my case. You've gone way beyond the call of duty - a heartfelt thank you. Your description and detail fit exactly, and the explanation seems entirely plausible, even from my limited perspective. That I find the idea of external mind control and recruitment so appalling is perhaps an intended result of 'their' actions.

Tom: How: “news that this zone is policed better now than before “ could possibly be related to a simple misunderstanding or to hustlers manipulating the gullible is not at all clear to me.

Mike: Mystical traditions have discouraged cultivation of egoic interest in psi, as you say. Some, e.g. some Buddhist schools, also discourage non-egoic involvement, because, they say, psi experiences in NPMR are no more real than everyday PMR. I don't know whether they really believe that, and if they do whether it's just a philosphical position, or a practical safeguard meant to shield people from experiences such as Toby's.

Tom: Anyone who believes that NPMR (if not the metaphysical arena in most folks experience) has no time or history is ignorant of how the larger reality works.

Mike: Sorry for my ignorance and lack of clarity, but this is a difficult region to write about naturalistically/scientifically, more so when I only have my own very limited, poorly understood personal experience to go on. The dominant worldview denies the independent existence of NPMR, explaining away internal NPMR experiences as products of brain chemistry, and external NPMR as manifestations as credulity. Even researchers who bother with psi have a hard time; e.g. are poltergeist phenomena "Physical attacks by other dimensional beings" or self-generated? You are convinced by your experiences, in a way that I have not been able to be convinced by mine. Having been told “go away and don't come back“, as you say, that may have been an intended effect of my interaction with NPMR. So I really shouldn't take up any more of your bandwidth. Thanks all the same. I really enjoyed MBT, and will reread it.

Mike

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