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 Post subject: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:18 pm 
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A TOE refers to a theory that isn't literally a theory of "everything" but a theory that unifies quantum mechanics with gravity and obviously has to unify both through equations. If it includes consciousness that would be even better. But it can't just be an idea, like a book with words, it would be a published paper mathematically unifying QM with gravity and the equations would make predictions that we could test and a whole new physics would emerge and so on.
You can't just say "I know...... reality is a virtual reality". Even if you say it really long with 3 books. There has to be some actual theory.

On Wiki it says "Campbell sent copies of the book to leading physicists" so does the book contain the math? Because a "theory" in physics and a "T.O.E." are things that are written with equations. Otherwise they are just ideas and should not be hijacking popular science terms.


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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:16 am 
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Hi Joelr, welcome to the forum.

Good question. You are right that the concept of a TOE commonly refers to only a theoretical framework of physics, but that doesn't mean that the only way to use the word and concept.

I will refer you to the use of TOE in philosophy, which fits the meaning of TOE in My Big TOE.
Quote:
"In philosophy, a theory of everything or ToE is an ultimate, all-encompassing explanation or description of nature or reality. Adopting the term from physics, where the search for a theory of everything is ongoing, philosophers have discussed the viability of the concept and analyzed its properties and implications. Among the questions to be addressed by a philosophical theory of everything are: "Why is reality understandable?" "Why are the laws of nature as they are?" "Why is there anything at all?""
This is exactly that the My Big TOE model is.

But other than that, doesn't it seem a bit silly to say that the words "Theory of Everything" should only be used for the subset (the specific TOE in physics) of the superset (the model about the nature of reality, where the non-physical is a superset of the physical). The metaphysical TOE which doesn't include the physics TOE is vastly more important than just the physics TOE without the metaphysical TOE, and for that reason alone it makes sense to use the concept of TOE to Tom's model, even if it's also used for something specific in physics.


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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:41 am 
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The theory explains QM and gravity in a larger context, he does not necessarily have to do mathematically deduce everything and follow others interpretations. It has a solid structure and it has nuance, it is not simply just an idea thrown out there and logically it makes sense - lest you can you find the contradiction.

His theory rests on two assumptions - 1. that consciousness exists as a self-changing information system capable of evolving and 2. that evolution exists as a process of natural selection. From these assumptions, all the attributes, limitations, properties, qualities, and mechanics of consciousness – what it is, where it comes from, and how it works.

Certain things are unknowable and certain things cannot be proven to people or reproduced in an objective way in a lab setting. But he has done some experiments like this https://arxiv.org/abs/1703.00058 that show how information would get rendered to a player to achieve low computational complexity in a finite simulation.

To him, this isn't a theory, this is his real experience of reality from a very phenomenal first-hand background in out of body experiences and other reality frames.
However, to present it to the general population with no reference frame or ability to share holistically subjective experiences like that, he has to logically present it as a theory and go through the hassle of doing experiments for stuff he already knows to get the right results.


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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Possible those out their could enlighten me on gravity in the first place since there is NO gravity. Gravity is a metaphor for the effect of a force we call gravity.But is an equation,Are you saying equations cause forces?? there is no FORCE pushing onto the ground that's called Gravity.Are you aware the first word used was Magic? But you can't be saying magic did it to the public. For there is no Gravity pushing us to the ground.We only experience an effect as is there was.Same as the Metaphor of Field. Gravitational FIELD. Electromagnetic FIELD.What Field?? What Gravity?? there isn't anything.We experience only an effect as if there was but it ain't there.All i see is denial about a 'objective' world that ain't objective atoll,just seams that way or perceived that way.The reason physicist laugh when debating Gravity with the public.Gravity? What Gravity? har de har hee hee harrr.QM and Gravity? More like hav.nt understood or out right denial of experimentation results.100 odd years and counting.
Where's the T.O.E? You found it.

James

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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:07 pm 
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Quote:
Hi Joelr, welcome to the forum.

Good question. You are right that the concept of a TOE commonly refers to only a theoretical framework of physics, but that doesn't mean that the only way to use the word and concept.

I will refer you to the use of TOE in philosophy, which fits the meaning of TOE in My Big TOE.
Quote:
"In philosophy, a theory of everything or ToE is an ultimate, all-encompassing explanation or description of nature or reality. Adopting the term from physics, where the search for a theory of everything is ongoing, philosophers have discussed the viability of the concept and analyzed its properties and implications. Among the questions to be addressed by a philosophical theory of everything are: "Why is reality understandable?" "Why are the laws of nature as they are?" "Why is there anything at all?""
This is exactly that the My Big TOE model is.

But other than that, doesn't it seem a bit silly to say that the words "Theory of Everything" should only be used for the subset (the specific TOE in physics) of the superset (the model about the nature of reality, where the non-physical is a superset of the physical). The metaphysical TOE which doesn't include the physics TOE is vastly more important than just the physics TOE without the metaphysical TOE, and for that reason alone it makes sense to use the concept of TOE to Tom's model, even if it's also used for something specific in physics.
Sorry but philosophy doesn’t hold a lot of power as it couldn’t keep up with maths and sciemce so they parted ways decades ago. I understand the post here as saying mbt is non falsifiable and therefore not science but I do however think there is science and also maths behind it. The book is also about encouraging the reader to piece together observations of evolutionary patterns ie. technology advancement.


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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:52 am 
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[quote:Leah88]Sorry but philosophy doesn’t hold a lot of power as it couldn’t keep up with maths and sciemce so they parted ways decades ago. I understand the post here as saying mbt is non falsifiable and therefore not science but I do however think there is science and also maths behind it. The book is also about encouraging the reader to piece together observations of evolutionary patterns ie. technology advancement.[/quote]

That is a statement of opinion not fact and MBT is more metaphysics than philosophy.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:09 am 
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Which part is a statement not a fact? science and philosophy used to be joint study but the fields divided, this is fact for anyone who has attended university Ted.


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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:23 am 
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[quote:Leah88]Sorry but philosophy doesn’t hold a lot of power[/quote]

This is the part that is your opinion and not fact. Otherwise why is philosophy still part of a University education? Those who spend their lives teaching philosophy in the Universities would likely disagree with you as they have been willing to spend their graduate education obtaining Doctorates in the field to qualify them to teach it at universities. Then they spend the rest of their lives, perhaps, writing and developing new concepts, etc., or perhaps just teaching.

And what does this have to do with MBT as metaphysics, not philosophy?

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:42 am 
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From Tom's MBT Wiki:
Quote:
My Big TOE (Theory Of Everything) is a trilogy of books written by Tom Campbell {basically a work on Metaphysics} and is designed to present ideas leading to a Big Picture understanding and paradigm shift by answering many of the unanswered questions existing in science today.
This well may be counter-intuitive to many individuals, the study of metaphysics answering science questions but it makes sense to me.
Quote:
A TOE refers - Joelr
That's something different than Tom's My Big TOE, in case you haven't figured it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:49 am 
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I don't come from an educated background from university's but iv had a rapid education over these last 3 years in science leading all the way up to metaphysics and what iv learned via science and personal experience of what MBT teaches and in my view because of how iv learned all this is that metaphysics is the truest form of science.
Im appreciating now that people disagree that science- philosophy- metaphysics have anything to do with each other. Philosophy and metaphysics have no place in science but id strongly disagree with this idea.MBT is giving an explanation of the results of the science experimentations results.For me science is confirming philosophy and especially MBT metaphysics places in understanding science.Science is what my foundations are and for me here at MBT this is science Based metaphysics.For me metaphysics is 'thee' science.I do understand that saying that will upset some and you'll be probably rolling your eyes at me for saying but i don't see science going anywhere ells than here by the way the path the experiments are heading and coming to the same conclusion as i have.Science-philosophy-metaphysics are indeed unified and giving a rounded T.O.E

James

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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:49 am 
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Quote:
I don't come from an educated background from university's but iv had a rapid education over these last 3 years in science leading all the way up to metaphysics and what iv learned via science and personal experience of what MBT teaches and in my view because of how iv learned all this is that metaphysics is the truest form of science.
Im appreciating now that people disagree that science- philosophy- metaphysics have anything to do with each other. Philosophy and metaphysics have no place in science but id strongly disagree with this idea.MBT is giving an explanation of the results of the science experimentations results.For me science is confirming philosophy and especially MBT metaphysics places in understanding science.Science is what my foundations are and for me here at MBT this is science Based metaphysics.For me metaphysics is 'thee' science.I do understand that saying that will upset some and you'll be probably rolling your eyes at me for saying but i don't see science going anywhere ells than here by the way the path the experiments are heading and coming to the same conclusion as i have.Science-philosophy-metaphysics are indeed unified and giving a rounded T.O.E


James
As I understand it, the 'science based' part is because Tom, as an experimental scientist, used the scientific methodology of repeatability to verify all elements specified in the MBT model.


Last edited by RBM on Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:45 am 
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Just to add that i came to the conclusion of science-philosophy-metaphysics being unified and that metaphysics is the true science not because of tom but because the information leading to that conclusion is out there in front of you without learning MBT.I study everything i can from top to bottom,have my own experiences to back it up and always find that Tom and the MBT model is the most actuate and well explained piece of work iv ever came across,not only of science but our experiences of reality aswell(objective and subjective) and is my main study.This is the science of the future.I consider it almost an work of art. Typical philosophical right brainer here;)

James

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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Quote:
Just to add that i came to the conclusion of science-philosophy-metaphysics being unified and that metaphysics is the true science not because of tom but because the information leading to that conclusion is out there in front of you without learning MBT.I study everything i can from top to bottom,have my own experiences to back it up and always find that Tom and the MBT model is the most actuate and well explained piece of work iv ever came across,not only of science but our experiences of reality aswell(objective and subjective) and is my main study.This is the science of the future.I consider it almost an work of art. Typical philosophical right brainer here;)

James
Hehe, if one has enough of the right kind of experience, one might find that conclusion 'in front of you', but this left-brain'er wants the steps along the way to that conclusion. Bread crumbs, if you will. Hehe.


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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:25 pm 
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AHHH RBM. Your one of the Spock's !(left brain'er)
im one of the Yoda's(right brain'er)
Iv simply split MBT forum user's into these 2 simple category's.I find these metaphors funny in the interactions with us all here.(imagine Spock and Yoda explaining things to each other and how they came to that same conclusion)Hope iv not made your pointy ears twitch too much and the raising of the eye brow with the 'its in front of you' comment.haha
So whether its bread crumbs or loafs you follow you will still make tasty toast-spread with MBT out of it.

James

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Nosce Te Ipsum/\TERMA/\\/Sperio Meriola\/Hado Nai/\
\//\
EM/\N/\TION / \ \ / M/\NIFEST/\TION / \ \ / ILUMIN/\TION


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 Post subject: Re: Where is the T.O.E.?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:21 am 
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Quote:
AHHH RBM. Your one of the Spock's !(left brain'er)
im one of the Yoda's(right brain'er)
Iv simply split MBT forum user's into these 2 simple category's.I find these metaphors funny in the interactions with us all here.(imagine Spock and Yoda explaining things to each other and how they came to that same conclusion)Hope iv not made your pointy ears twitch too much and the raising of the eye brow with the 'its in front of you' comment.haha
So whether its bread crumbs or loafs you follow you will still make tasty toast-spread with MBT out of it.

James
Hey James,

Nice pickup on the comical perspective of the topic.

My left-brain functioning is pretty pervasive and quite dysfunctional so Tom's work has been useful to me in mapping it out, while understanding the 'why's', enabling changes to the right-brain to be made. At least that's my ongoing plan. I'm hoping this can percolate up to being level status operations, if done right, allowing intent to be modified.

No ear twitching for me, as I realize 'it's all just data', so it makes sense that 'it's right in front of you' essentially.


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