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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:28 am 
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Hello,

I just saw a video of Tom on YouTube from 2014:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhcQy_f ... tu.be&t=8m

On 9:15 Tom describes a double slit experiment of which the detectors were detecting the which way data, but not collecting the data, and the outcome was a diffraction pattern.

As far as I know, such experiment was never done, please correct me if I'm wrong.
If thats true and there wasn't such experiment, why did Tom lied?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:02 pm 
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Quote:
Hello,

I just saw a video of Tom on YouTube from 2014:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhcQy_f ... tu.be&t=8m

On 9:15 Tom describes a double slit experiment of which the detectors were detecting the which way data, but not collecting the data, and the outcome was a diffraction pattern.

As far as I know, such experiment was never done, please correct me if I'm wrong.
If thats true and there wasn't such experiment, why did Tom lied?
I am not going to watch the video until further clarification: If the detectors were not collecting the data, it makes sense that there would be a diffraction pattern. So how does that translate into a "lied"?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:01 am 
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Quote:
Quote:
Hello,

I just saw a video of Tom on YouTube from 2014:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhcQy_f ... tu.be&t=8m

On 9:15 Tom describes a double slit experiment of which the detectors were detecting the which way data, but not collecting the data, and the outcome was a diffraction pattern.

As far as I know, such experiment was never done, please correct me if I'm wrong.
If thats true and there wasn't such experiment, why did Tom lied?
I am not going to watch the video until further clarification: If the detectors were not collecting the data, it makes sense that there would be a diffraction pattern. So how does that translate into a "lied"?

You don't need to watch the whole video, just a few minutes starting at 9:15.

On the original experiment, you get the diffraction pattern when the detector is activated. I do not know about an experiment when they show the differences between turning the detector ON and collecting the data, and turning the detector ON and not collecting the data. If anyone know of such experiment please share with us.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:26 am 
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Please answer my question, Thanks.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:50 am 
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Why does it make sense that if the detectors are ON but not collecting the data that you will get a diffraction pattern? is there any experiment that shows that?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:15 am 
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Why does it make sense that if the detectors are ON but not collecting the data that you will get a diffraction pattern? is there any experiment that shows that?
How do you know that the detectors are ON if there is no data collected?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:53 am 
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Why does it make sense that if the detectors are ON but not collecting the data that you will get a diffraction pattern? is there any experiment that shows that?
How do you know that the detectors are ON if there is no data collected?
Because I turned them ON, just didn't collect the data to a hard drive.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:41 am 
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Why does it make sense that if the detectors are ON but not collecting the data that you will get a diffraction pattern? is there any experiment that shows that?
How do you know that the detectors are ON if there is no data collected?
Because I turned them ON, just didn't collect the data to a hard drive.
The theory behind the double slit experiment supports the notion that "knowledge"/ "awareness"/ "focused consciousness" produces an outcome. If the detectors are on but not recording the data, then there is no evidence by which you can have knowledge of the outcome. Therefore, the test with detectors on mimics the test that had no detectors and accordingly produces a diffraction pattern.

So how does this cause you to suggest that Tom lied? Please respond. Thank you.

Regards,

John


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:05 pm 
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Hello Rotem:

You have a good point.
I think it is very clear that the recorders don't make any difference, but Tom thinks they do.

He is going to do experiments that will show if recorders make any difference to clear this out for him and people that believe he is right.

For some, it will be to wait and see.

I think Tom had a strong belief that, that is what you get, but he will be performing these experiments also stating that they were never done (hmmm ...).

From some perspective we can say he lied.
But I don't think he had bad intentions though. Maybe just overconfidence in himself and his hypotheses.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:19 pm 
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How do you know that the detectors are ON if there is no data collected?
Because I turned them ON, just didn't collect the data to a hard drive.
The theory behind the double slit experiment supports the notion that "knowledge"/ "awareness"/ "focused consciousness" produces an outcome. If the detectors are on but not recording the data, then there is no evidence by which you can have knowledge of the outcome. Therefore, the test with detectors on mimics the test that had no detectors and accordingly produces a diffraction pattern.

So how does this cause you to suggest that Tom lied? Please respond. Thank you.

Regards,

John
It might be the case that when you turn on the detectors but don't collect the data you will get a diffraction pattern, as there is no conscious observer to collapse the wave function.
But in order to REALLY know that, an experiment should be done to test this hypothesis.
Was there such an experiment?
Tom claims that there was, I do not know of such experiment. If you know of such experiment, please share with us...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:30 am 
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Because I turned them ON, just didn't collect the data to a hard drive.
The theory behind the double slit experiment supports the notion that "knowledge"/ "awareness"/ "focused consciousness" produces an outcome. If the detectors are on but not recording the data, then there is no evidence by which you can have knowledge of the outcome. Therefore, the test with detectors on mimics the test that had no detectors and accordingly produces a diffraction pattern.

So how does this cause you to suggest that Tom lied? Please respond. Thank you.

Regards,

John
It might be the case that when you turn on the detectors but don't collect the data you will get a diffraction pattern, as there is no conscious observer to collapse the wave function.
But in order to REALLY know that, an experiment should be done to test this hypothesis.
Was there such an experiment?
Tom claims that there was, I do not know of such experiment. If you know of such experiment, please share with us...
This thread is in the physics section of the forum. In the same section is a thread with the title: Quantum Eraser experiment authored by Avi Tal. I encourage you to review that thread, if you have not done so. Then let's discuss.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:34 am 
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Hello Rotem:

You have a good point.
I think it is very clear that the recorders don't make any difference, but Tom thinks they do.

He is going to do experiments that will show if recorders make any difference to clear this out for him and people that believe he is right.

For some, it will be to wait and see.

I think Tom had a strong belief that, that is what you get, but he will be performing these experiments also stating that they were never done (hmmm ...).

From some perspective we can say he lied.
But I don't think he had bad intentions though. Maybe just overconfidence in himself and his hypotheses.
I asked you a question in the kick starter thread. Did you notice it? Let me ask you again: Do you believe that consciousness survives physical death? Please respond.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:43 am 
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I asked you a question in the kick starter thread. Did you notice it? Let me ask you again: Do you believe that consciousness survives physical death? Please respond.
I just replied on the other thread.
Regarding this question, I do believe it survives. I operate in NPMR, and I have enough experiences to know that WAIT (We Are In Training).


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:53 am 
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I asked you a question in the kick starter thread. Did you notice it? Let me ask you again: Do you believe that consciousness survives physical death? Please respond.
I just replied on the other thread.
Regarding this question, I do believe it survives. I operate in NPMR, and I have enough experiences to know that WAIT (We Are In Training).
Thank you. As do I. Do you agree that knowledge, awareness, focused consciousness produces outcome?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:09 am 
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Thank you. As do I. Do you agree that knowledge, awareness, focused consciousness produces outcome?
Sure. A typical MBT phrase is "Intent modifies information".
Idk if that is what you mean by outcome.
I do visualizations. Is that an outcome?


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