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 Post subject: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:58 pm 
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https://thenextweb.com/science/2019/06/ ... oblem/amp/


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:51 pm 
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Get off the computers.. Facebook, email, twitter.. etc. Take your life back. Technology will make things easier here for sure. But look around and see how many people together for a meal are all on their phones instead of talking to each other.. tech will definitely bring much in the way of entertainment and more free time. The issue for us is to use that time to interact with others and work on ourselves.. not interact with technology.. more and more our bodies will become intergrated with technology. Imagine the phones we will have in our pockets in 20 years.. let's just be sure we will not all be staring at them all the time and spend more time interacting with eachother, not less.. take our lives back from technology.. just a thought..


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:21 am 
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I’m confused by your response. It has nothing to do with quantum mechanics, which is what mbt rests on.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:08 am 
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Hello Leah88,

MBT does not "rest" on quantum mechanics. MBT rests on the theory that consciousness is the only reality and everything else is its construct. This fundamental reaches across multiple cultures for millennia.

Tom is among a few of us that have had NPMR experiences. He has constructed a quantum physics framework using human concepts of consciousness to explain the theory behind our non-human origins.

Regards,

John


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:40 am 
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It may provide evidence that consciousness is what determines reality experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:06 pm 
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Tom even says himself that a good theory needs science behind it as well as subjectivity. Otherwise it’s just faith remastered. And it does in fact mainly rest on dual slit but dual slit may be solved with pilot wave once spin is solved.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:29 pm 
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"All is consciousness and consciousness is all" was theorized by many cultures long before the double slit was a "twinkle in the eye of science". Tom's contention is that the slit proves we live in a virtual reality. Failure of the slit experiment does not negate the aforementioned theory. It is possible that science just doesn't get it yet, it has happened before.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:51 am 
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I emailed Tom the NY Times article on this. I hope he will address it in an upcoming video.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:06 pm 
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Here is what someone more educated in physics said on the study:
Quote:
Schrödinger’s cat is a well-known thought experiment intending to demonstrate the oddities of superposition collapse. That is to say, any quantum object will be in a superposition or linear combination of potential energy states. Once this object is observed, the superposition collapses into one of the states within its combination and the state chosen is technically random though there are probabilities linked to how likely any given state is.

Quantum jumps =/= superposition collapse. Quantum jumps are how if you measure and remeasure a quantum object’s energy state, your answers will keep changing over the course of the measurements: A, A, B, B, C... Now the researchers were able to predict when the states would change, so like in the sequence I gave, they would predict two quantum jumps. They did this by looking for the emission of photons during a jump, this makes a lot of sense since as quantum objects enter different energy states, the energy change they have has to be represented in some way, through the emission or absorption of energy (photons). If they could cut out ambient light (prevent photon absorption), they could ensure that all quantum jumps are indicated by the emission of a photon.

Thus they predict quantum jumps (in specific cases), but to be clear, they do NOT predict superposition collapse outcomes in any real sense. This does NOT suggest a deterministic world and really, this is NOT a revolutionary shift in quantum physics but further validation of current quantum theories. It is still some great work on their parts, though, so I wouldn’t want to invalidate that.

I've never particularly cared for the physics minutiae.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:50 pm 
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From the abstract...
Quote:
The experimental results demonstrate that the evolution of each completed jump is continuous, coherent and deterministic. We exploit these features, using real-time monitoring and feedback, to catch and reverse quantum jumps mid-flight—thus deterministically preventing their completion.
Seems to contradict...
Quote:
Thus they predict quantum jumps (in specific cases), but to be clear, they do NOT predict superposition collapse outcomes in any real sense. This does NOT suggest a deterministic world and really, this is NOT a revolutionary shift in quantum physics but further validation of current quantum theories.
I submit the possibility that intent and the definition of determination may partially be the cause of the discrepancy.

Not only are they saying they can predict a quantum jump but can reverse them. What I ask myself is who/what is predicting? Who/what is reversing? They may have found a physical way of manipulating a physical system(happens every day) but who/what has devised the method of doing so? Once these questions are answered we can know who/what is determining or not determining.

I’m reasonably well educated but I’m not a physicist so I could easily be misunderstanding something. It would be interesting to hear Toms take on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:41 am 
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VB,

I pretty much took away the same conclusions from it as you did..
IE: ... that it is quite potentially supported of "consciousness" and "intent" being tools that shape the outcomes..

or do you feel Im still missing something VB ?

EDIT :

I think i admit to being a little confused, but was the article and post , posted with the intent that it was an alternative view to MBT principles, was it supportive of its principles ?
Or was it just another case of what the subjective individual derives from the info you think ?


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:44 pm 
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Quote:
VB,

I pretty much took away the same conclusions from it as you did..
IE: ... that it is quite potentially supported of "consciousness" and "intent" being tools that shape the outcomes..

or do you feel Im still missing something VB ?

EDIT :

I think i admit to being a little confused, but was the article and post , posted with the intent that it was an alternative view to MBT principles, was it supportive of its principles ?
Or was it just another case of what the subjective individual derives from the info you think ?
I noticed the seeming discrepancy. I don’t know if anyone else noticed it or not, nor do I know the intent of anyone posting, nor do I know the intent of those who performed the experiment in the first place but Leah and many others(including me) have expressed confusion with regards to the relationship between consciousness and matter, free will and determinism, so on and so forth. I expressed my view on it, how I think in order to understand that which is infinite and unknowable. Look within to verify what you see without.

When I see a paradox, I see an opportunity. What do you see? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:28 pm 
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This from the article- "The unpredictability of a qubits: how to catch an artificial atom in mid quantum jump and interfere with its outcome. Qubits exist in more than one state at a time until observed-called superposition. The moment the qubit changes from whatever it is going to end up being when it is observed-called a quantum jump was previously thought to be instantaneous and random. The experiment results demonstrate that evolution of each completed jump is continuous, coherent, and deterministic."

"Quantum computers are devices capable of performing computations using quantum bits or qubits. What is a qubit? A classical computer is a "binary computer" because all of the functions it performs are based on ones and zeros. The ones and zeros are called bits. Quantum computers don't use bits they use qubits. They have a function that bits don't have instead of being represented by ones and zeros qubits can be both at the same time. When qubits are unobserved they are considered to be "spinning" much like flipping a coin. When a coin is spinning it is in 2 states at the same time."

"Observation theory" dictates that when a quantum particle is being watched it can act like a wave. Basically the universe acts one way when we are looking and another way when we are not.

From Seth:

"Consciousness units can operate as particles or as waves. Whichever way they operate, they are aware of their own existence. When they operate as particles, they buildup continuity in time. They take on the characteristics of particularity. They identify themselves in terms of specific boundaries. They take on certain forms then, when they operate in particles and experience reality from the center of those forms, they become individual.

When consciousness units operate as waves, they do not set up boundaries about their own self awareness and when operating as waves they can indeed be in more than one place(state) at a time."

Tom's states that the double slit experiment is evidence that our reality is virtual due to the "observation theory" and the resulting behavior of particles. He also implies that consciousness is a computer, likely a super quantum computer. Seth states that consciousness is an individual when it operates as a particle and a non-individual when it operates as a wave. So therefore, if consciousness equals matter plus energy then while acting as a particle one could conclude that the individual is operating in a virtual physical matter reality and when operating as a wave a non-individual in non physical matter reality. In my view, there is a correlation here.

As far as the intent of the author and posts of this thread, like many of us, we struggle with open minded versus closed minded skepticism. Having had experiences in altered states, I am more inclined than normally to be open minded but remain skeptical.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:47 am 
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Mmm I am still not convinced in the dual slit interpretation. The quantum eraser is still at play though and the implications of that still suggest a program of some sort. And most of you are still aren’t understanding how pilot wave works either. It is a really likely alternative to be used as a future remodelling of physics. The intent component of mbt seems a bit of a leap from the observer. To clarify ( although don’t really see why I need to, As most readers understood my post Brian), is that I am offering an alternative to Copenhagen which Tom spends several chapters building on. I am a scientist so naturally I seek truth, I also believe in growth and the only way to achieve this is to look at a problem from every angle, not just the ones that make you feel nice inside. ☮️ Don’t let fear cloud your curiosity.


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 Post subject: Re: Thoughts on this?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:02 am 
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Leah ,
Quote:
To clarify ( although don’t really see why I need to, As most readers understood my post Brian),
First, I wanted to thank you for your posting, as well as both VB and John's postings..

Sure, your doing fine Leah,
I have to admit i need to read the info, article and postings a bit deeper than im doing. ( doing a bit of skimming here and there at times.)
Or I am at fault for trying to short cut my own reading time and homework by placing a reliance on the people on the MBT forums I have a strong respect and trust in,
Martin, John , Linda, VB , yourself and others..for your conclusions and interpretations , when i should be placing more time into forming my own of course..

But my apologies to you and the others in the thread as well

Thanks, Brian


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