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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:26 am 
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Tom C

Ramon and Ted know what they are talking about.

Thynes: Are you saying that without regular sex you cannot have a good loving relationship?

Tom: Absolutely not.

OM: Lets say you have a super duper love making affair with the wife tonight. Then soon after you decide you want to meditate and have a NPMR excursion. Will that impede your process due to the Physical/Energy Drain?

Tom: Absolutely not.

Sex, like anything, else can be used as a tool to focus intent. Beliefs about sex can also modify one's intent. Though it is a common error, the belief or the tool is not the cause -- intent is the only cause that moves consciousness from one state to another.

Tom C


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:08 pm 
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TED: it is not fundamental to Consciousness Space and the big picture reality in the same fundamental way...
.....It is simply another form of interaction between IUOC participants in this VR

OM: something feels like there is an inconsistency with that description. As I mentioned Monroe and Others have had Astral sex or a transfer of sexual energy far more powerful and different in the OBE state. 'Sex Energy' appears to be originating from a source beyond our little picture but is allowed to be manifested within our VR rule set in our little picture PMR.

Whether its a belief or not, I don't know. As Tom Says a belief can limit you. This is why I am engaging for answers/discussion on the issue.

OM


Last edited by ObjectiveMind on Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:08 pm 
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I would add something to the comments and that is as long as one is are in control of the act and not the other way around you could be okay. But at the sam time one should be aware of the effects the act (whether sex or whatever else) will have on the self or on other involved whether physically, emotionally/mentally and corally (spirtually or whatever you want to call it). At the end it all goes back to the same simple formula which gets deeper as our awarness expands, is the cost outweighting the benefit. Too many times there is a lot of emotional baggage and damage that need to be carried on many months or even years if not a life time after the pleasure has faded away. One must consider all the consequeses to make sure the damage does not outweight other aspecs.
I concur, except for the control part. As long as each is under their own control, not the effects from past experience, etc. Control is a current issue in my reality. Trying to control or manipulate anyone else for any reason is "bad", for sex it's damaging (worse than "bad"), in my opinion.

I do understand what you were asking now, OM.
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Bette

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Interesting, I wanted to start the same thread some days ago.

I glad that Tom answered some questions.

As ObjectiveMind, I read about to phisophy that claimed that sexuality was needed for enlightenment. I always felt it was true and false at the same time.

I think it's true for someone who is locked in obsessive sexual behaviour. Someone that his mind is full of perversion and who can't control himself sexually. For that type of person, sexuality would be needed for enlightenment because the work to reduce his entropy is within this space.

I think it's false for someone who don't have those problem. For those, sex become a tool for expressing love between two people... But there is no inner work to do.

About the energy-
I think that sexuality can drain vitality if done incorrectly. What I mean here is frequency and objectives. Let's take someone who masturbates everyday for years with the only idea of reaching orgasm; he would have big physicals issues to deal with.

On the other hand, someone who has a long, high quality intercourse and who focuses on the other and not only on his orgasm would feel regenerated.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:25 pm 
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To you all,

This is turning out to be another of those threads, like the one from Wisdom & Big Truth about "Liberation, Nirvana, Parinirvana...?" They go on for pages and no matter what I said, Tom says or what any one else says, the belief system basis of the questions never goes away. They just get restated on the basis that the question was not understood. Here, despite what I said, Ramon said (and about which Tom agreed with both of us) and what Tom himself said, the thread goes on, seeking to justify a belief that there must be something special here, coming back over and over with restatements. This is the only conclusion that I can reach.

We are not trying to do what so many spirituality sources try to do, make statements based upon PMR concepts that have some kind of metaphorical basis and approximate reality or express a belief system with no allowance for the unreliability and uncertainty of PMR language based communication. They are based upon beliefs and PMR based metaphor and thus are limited. We are trying to make statements about how Consciousness Space really works. Sexuality wherever and in whatever form is not a fundamental, it is the result of a VR rule set in operation in that VR space. So is most everything that you 'know and believe'.

The qualities of the Intent behind an interaction, being to being and with free will of all allowed for, is what matters, not the quality, inventiveness or frequency of the sex act itself. If the Intent and resulting interactions are 'good', then the quality of the beings involved may be improved. Entropy may be lowered. But sex acts are not so special that they are great improvers of being. It is Intent that is special. Sex acts seem so special because they are built into the structure of PMR through the rule set and thus into the fabric of our VR being. We react strongly because that is the programmed response. The same thing is true of 'love' as it is so often based upon sexuality in a language that has almost only one common word for the emotion.

There is nothing that you have to do here to improve your quality of being beyond applying your best Intent to all of your interactions and using the resulting feedback to improve your Intent. This is so whether we are talking sex act, raising a child or dealing with your boss at work.

Ted


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:59 pm 
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OM,

Again, Ted hits the nail on the head. In an earlier post Ted said: "It [sex] is simply another form of interaction between IUOC participants in this VR, and in other ways in other VRs."

The last phrase: "...and in other ways in other VRs" takes into account the sexual experiences in NPMR (other VRs) that Bob was talking about. There is no inconsistency. Remember, all is data -- the data we receive in NPMR (or from anyplace else) must be interpreted in terms of our PMR experience data base. We "pattern match" to find the best PMR based metaphor that most accurately fits our experience. In this case "sex" is the best "pattern match" but the experience is much different than sex in PMR. The intense sharing at the being level (deep seated emotion and feeling within a context of closeness that feels like two have been melded into one) that sometimes takes place between IUOCs in NPMR is as Ted implies: ... simply another form of interaction between IUOC participants within the NPMR VR.

Tom C


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:45 pm 
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This is turning out to be another of those threads, like the one from Wisdom & Big Truth about "Liberation, Nirvana, Parinirvana...?" They go on for pages and no matter what I said, Tom says or what any one else says, the belief system basis of the questions never goes away.
That's because sex is so much fun to talk about, it gets our attention.
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They just get restated on the basis that the question was not understood.
What was the question, Sex Center, what's that? Do I have to go learn on my own? :) I'd say Ted answered the question when he said, "There is nothing that you have to do here to improve your quality of being beyond applying your best Intent to all of your interactions and using the resulting feedback to improve your Intent. This is so whether we are talking sex act, raising a child or dealing with your boss at work", only perhaps that there is also nothing you can do besides that.

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Bette

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:03 pm 
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This is turning out to be another of those threads, like the one from Wisdom & Big Truth about "Liberation, Nirvana, Parinirvana...?" They go on for pages and no matter what I said, Tom says or what any one else says, the belief system basis of the questions never goes away.
Ted,

you should be more patient here. :0 If you ever watch TV you could notice that there are more and more sexually oriented commercials targeting all age groups. Sex has been proclaimed to be a part of healthy life style for retirees as well. Not to mention that cases of stroke and heart attack were on a rise in these communities thanks to use of new rejuvenating medications. Belief will go away, when one wishes this to happen.

Lena

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:58 pm 
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Lena,

I am well aware of all of that. What I am talking about is the repeated pattern of failing to really pay attention to statements by myself, others and even Tom. Then insisting that they really mean something else. Then we go around again. This is a behavioral pattern that I recognize and that I am trying to bring to the participants attention as they do not realize that they are repetitively following a pattern. Noticing patterns in behavior or systems is something that I have done all my life. I have solved a lot of problems for people in this way. To recognize that you are trapped in a pattern, a belief system trap, is something useful to know.

Ted


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:55 pm 
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Behavior patterns, being reprimanded about asking questions from different angles....
My intention is not to go on for pages and pages. We are on page 2?
It's just an attempt to come to a conclusion and reveal a potential belief for oneself.

At this point of our development and given that we are in the MBT forum, I would assume that we would already know that we are speaking of loving, healthy, non controlling, non ego filled, enjoyable and responsible sexual actions.

In Essence, I just wanted to know if Sexual Orgasms, sexual attraction with your partner and the distraction thereof in would impede your ability to access NPMR and or acquire PSI abilties due to the Drain of ' Physical/Emotional/Metaphysical ' Sexual Energy.

Nonetheless, the basic portion of my question has been answered.
OM: Lets say you have a super duper love making affair with the wife tonight. Then soon after you decide you want to meditate and have a NPMR excursion. Will that impede your process due to the Physical/Energy Drain?

Tom: Absolutely not.
-------
Ted: "It [sex] is simply another form of interaction between IUOC participants in this VR, and in other ways in other VRs."

OM: Some of us need to work it through the intellectual center a bit, But I get it, if one is addicted to sex in any VR and cant function properly with or without it, or uses his partner in a controlling sexual way, or is having sex with multiple partners to the disregard of all but their own egoic pleasure, would all be forms of high entropy IUOC's and a drag overall.

In closing this thread, correct me if I am wrong.....
An active responsible sex life as long as all of your obligations are met
...is not a factor in any way that will delay, deter or otherwise impede any NPMR conscious access or other acquisition of Psi Abilities. In Fact, it could even bring entropy reduction along with it.

OM


Last edited by ObjectiveMind on Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:55 pm 
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Ugh come on OM, you just wanted to let everyone know you have a wonderful sex life with a hot wife, and for some reason get assurance that it won't impede your progress. It looks like it's a go, so you can go go go all you want. Good job. :)
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:26 am 
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You know me better than that by now.
Ego had nothing to do with it. I am glad to report.
Just a need to know, as I usually give as much info and background as possible to get my point across to obtain the best data possible in order to answer my questions.

: )

OM


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:11 am 
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What I am talking about is the repeated pattern of failing to really pay attention to statements by myself, others and even Tom. Then insisting that they really mean something else. Then we go around again. This is a behavioral pattern that I recognize and that I am trying to bring to the participants attention as they do not realize that they are repetitively following a pattern. Noticing patterns in behavior or systems is something that I have done all my life. I have solved a lot of problems for people in this way. To recognize that you are trapped in a pattern, a belief system trap, is something useful to know.

Ted
Ted,

I see your intention to help to recognize a behavioral pattern. I believe (only believe ;-) ) that help may be useful only when a recipient is ready to accept it. (I am aware that you know this.) We can offer a pointer or help, would it be accepted or not most of the time is laying on another side of equation. I am not trying to tell you what you should or should not do, just give a view from my VR corner. :-))

Also, sometimes a side route is shorter way to get to a destination, than going according to somebody's directions. What can look as a simple thing to somebody, for instance can be quite a puzzle to me. With all help available I would have to go my convoluted way to get to the bottom of my thinking, to see where I have started and how I can get it clear to myself. Even the best thoughts and advices have to go through my mind before I'll be able to see how and where I can place it in my mind to make one more light spot on my dim piece of consciousness.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:05 pm 
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Tom,

I want to avoid asking dumb questions as much as possible because I know that answering them takes valuable time and energy and it tends to increase the board's entropy (i.e. disorder), leading threads astray into offtopic-land. However, this one has been bouncing my mind almost on a daily basis for a long time. It's not specifically sex related, but related to love relationships in general, having to do with having the opportunity of dating - on the short, mid or long term, with or without sex (that's not the issue) - someone who meets one's personal criteria for "falling in love" (whatever one's personal subjective definition is). I'm going to be straightforward: how likely would be in a situation where one has never ever been able to find such a date/relationship, no matter how much time it goes by (as if an ongoing bad luck were carried within no matter what one tries to do or not do, how much one tries to change or not change) the following cause ---> PMR being tugged from NPMR in order to create such "bad luck" in order to assure that one cannot reach it so that one has to feel rages of frustration that can only be reduced through buffers like intellectual achievement? Is it possible that in specific cases the PMR entity is being constantly surrounded by such a "bad luck" in order to catalyze a higher purpose (i.e. getting proficient at X fields of knowledge/learning) that's been previously pre-defined? In other words, a "you are to remain loveless for life because that's what you came here to do: getting frustrated so that higher intellectual functions are awakened". How likely (or even possible) is that? If so, how can one access such information without falling into an ego-trap that misleads one into thinking "yeah, it's definitely that: I am the Chosen One and that's why all this is happening to me"?

Moreover, is it possible that one's (evil) guides are purposely creating such a kind of specific "bad luck" just for the sake of driving the PMR entity mad and have fun watching his melodrama of frustration?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:31 pm 
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Great thread, I was thinking about the role of sex and spiritual growth. My conclusion has been that to see it first as it really is, a survival drive. Then see how humans evolve survival instincts to a wide array of expeirences and we have the "Sex Center" or a much larger battery of sexual behavior within PMR residence.

I think I have struggled with feeling guilty about sex due to some religious influences in my early childhood. However, if it wasn't for sex, my daughter would never have been born and I couldn't imagine how wasted a life I might have it that didn't happen. So hurray for sex!


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