A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

User avatar
Shirshir718
Power Poster
Power Poster
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:50 am
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by Shirshir718 »

VirtualBrain wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:54 am
So they aren’t real personalities then. It is interesting.
Some people with DID can be successfully treated with therapy and those Alta can disappear is sufficient healing takes place or be managed and the person can function better in society. You can search for DID on YouTube and see people with DID and bring out the atlas in real time.
User avatar
Sainbury
Power Poster
Power Poster
Posts: 6572
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:54 pm
Location: Ocala, FL
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by Sainbury »

Tom's answer to multiple personalities.

Fireside Chat Feb 2016 Pt 3 - 28:43

https://elastic.mbt-database.com/result ... alities&s=
User avatar
Sainbury
Power Poster
Power Poster
Posts: 6572
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:54 pm
Location: Ocala, FL
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by Sainbury »

I found this nice post from Ted while going through some files.

This FWAU has access to all of its/your past lives within what Tom calls the past actualized data base. So none of them are really forgotten and wiped clean. They are just there as needed and not as a continuing memory. When you get older, you will be readily able to see the utility of this as even here in PMR with less than 100 years to remember, you don't want to have to remember everything and some things you would really prefer to forget.

Periodically your NPMR FWAU decides that it is time to take another turn at self improvement and will incarnate into PMR as you in this version or in a past or future version of itself as a PMR FWAU with its mind provided by the same IUOC as it uses. This sameness of IUOC is what makes both of these FWAUs in different VRs into one being at base. But it won't be the 'you' specifically now experiencing itself repeated all over again. It will be a version based upon the same IUOC but with the advantage of the slowly improving data that makes up your IUOC, gradually reducing entropy with each incarnation and facing new challenges with a new identity and situation. It leaves behind memories of past identities with this new FWAU so that it is not burdened by problems and mistakes of the past. It starts over again afresh. There are some children who have access, usually lost as they grow up, memories of their immediate past life. But this is not the norm and it creates problems. When you PMR life is over, your personality and major 'learnings' may be specifically incorporated into your NPMR personality, if you prove to be very successful as an FWAU. What you gain in reduced entropy and improved QOC for your IUOC is absolutely then part of yourself as the NPMR FWAU and is also there for AUM's benefit as this new and improved IUOC is a part of AUM.

I'm trying to get across to you what the real you is as not being the you here and now in PMR on this trip. You are rather your IUOC, your NPMR FWAU, the available memories of all past PMR FWAUs at need, plus finally the you here and now that you are aware of as yourself. You are the tip of the spear, the cutting edge, where entropy is reduced and QOC improved, or not. What gain is made in this period on behalf of all these aspects of yourself depends upon you. That is your IUOC cannot change itself and you NPMR FWAU has little potential for change as the intensity of interaction is simply not there. Here in PMR is where the action is.

http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewto ... 93#p77093
s.lareck
Power Poster
Power Poster
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:19 pm
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by s.lareck »

I'm curious about personality theories in the context of MBT and I thought Ted Vollers did great work in publishing his paper "IUOCs and the Origin of Personality Types" where he basically states that our personality type is tied to our IUOC and we're going to display the same characteristics in NPMR and other reality frames.

In today's fireside chat Tom said that it's only our quality of consciousness that stays with us between lives and if we're going to display similiar characteristics then it's only because of that.
Ted's paper hypothesized that the personality types "developed by a natural and generalized evolutionary principle" on the basis of their "value in organizing the interactions of avatars as members of a society." He held that the "needs of societies in PMR drive the production of these personality types...PMRs are the drivers of the proportions of types created with the result that PMR drives the types and proportions to be found within NPMRs as well. PMR is after all where the intensity of interaction is greater and the resulting propensity to mold our IUOCs, just as for the reduction of entropy and the raising of the QOC of our IUOCs is maximum" (p. 2). Nevertheless, the benefits and unique contributions of the personality types help maintain balance in NPMR as well as PMR: "the needs of NPMR society as a society would not seem to be greatly different than PMR society. Basically you have the same IUOCs, trained and evolved by their experience in PMR as the more intense 'cutting edge' of entropy reduction and producer of higher QOC with the resultant continuance of PMR thought forms, values and conflicts retained into NPMR" (p. 24).

Ted uses the terms "proclivities" or "preferences" or "propensities" throughout the paper, and also represents the "Personality Space" graphically as being on spectra. This is an indication that personality types are dynamic rather than fixed. In other words, the IUOC has a weighted tendency to interpret and respond to the incoming data in ways consistent with their "type." An IUOC's Quality of Consciousness influences the ways in which it expresses those personality types. Ted gives as an example the ways in which some Guardians (inclined to prioritize the stability and cohesion of society) in this PMR VR tend to force conformity on others and castigate outsiders, but this is an effect of their low QOC (indeed, this PMR is a VR intended for the evolution of immature "kindergarten" IUOCs). A mature Guardian would prioritize stability by developing systems that respect the free will of others and value a balance of other groups.

That is a starting point for getting to the root of your question. Do you have a link to Tom's comment that it is QOC alone that determines the continuity of "characteristics" between PMR incarnations?
Everything is simpler than we can imagine, at the same time more complex and intertwined than can be comprehended--Goethe, Maxims & Reflections
jakub
Normal User
Normal User
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:38 am
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by jakub »

For anyone interested ->

I've been trying to answer this for myself for a while and I've concluded that MBTI (also mixed with other systems) is NOT tied to IUOC - just human variation designed to create social challenges. So it is for example possible that Tom Campbell could be in the next life an attractive, partying ESFP girl and have nothing to do with science. For me it is good news - imagine how limiting it would be to never experience any variance of playing different characters and be forever stuck to what you are. My conclusion comes from studying information from sources like Seth, Brian Weiss, Tessa Lynne and others who have communicated with/from the "other side".

So I believe that Ted was wrong in his paper (it still carries a lot of other useful information), Tom's model about FWAU having only the quality of IUOC and nothing more is the valid look.
For me it was freeing to come to that conclusion - you're just playing a character.
Jdjr
Power Poster
Power Poster
Posts: 1172
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by Jdjr »

Freedom also comes when you disconnect from the character you play and the personality remains.
jakub
Normal User
Normal User
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:38 am
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by jakub »

Jdjr wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:08 am Freedom also comes when you disconnect from the character you play and the personality remains.
From what I understand that happens when you disconnect from your senses in meditation. Personality doesn't remain after the FWAU partition is taken down and you merge back into IUOC.
Jdjr
Power Poster
Power Poster
Posts: 1172
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by Jdjr »

jakub wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:57 am
Jdjr wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:08 am Freedom also comes when you disconnect from the character you play and the personality remains.
From what I understand that happens when you disconnect from your senses in meditation. Personality doesn't remain after the FWAU partition is taken down and you merge back into IUOC.
I have, on a number of occasions, completely disconnected from this reality and character and maintained the same personality.
jakub
Normal User
Normal User
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:38 am
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by jakub »

Jdjr wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:03 am I have, on a number of occasions, completely disconnected from this reality and character and maintained the same personality.
That is because you are your FWAU right now and you will be until the merging process will occur some time after physical death. Up to that point you are able to explore available planes, which are opened to you by the LCS/your guides/your IUOC (who watch you all the time). When you're back to your original IUOC personality, then it's a whole new reality.
Last edited by jakub on Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jdjr
Power Poster
Power Poster
Posts: 1172
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by Jdjr »

jakub wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:34 am
Jdjr wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:03 am I have, on a number of occasions, completely disconnected from this reality and character and maintained the same personality.
That is because you are your FWAU right now and you will be until a merging process will occur some time after physical death. Up to that point you are able to explore available planes, which are opened to you by the LCS/your guides/your IUOC (who watch you all the time). When you're back to your original IUOC personality, then it's a whole new reality.
The merging process took place years ago. In theory, I am now what Ted defines as the permanent avatar or higher self.
jakub
Normal User
Normal User
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:38 am
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by jakub »

Jdjr wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:14 am The merging process took place years ago. In theory, I am now what Ted defines as the permanent avatar or higher self.
That's an interesting statement. So would you say what exactly changed during that merging process?
Jdjr
Power Poster
Power Poster
Posts: 1172
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by Jdjr »

jakub wrote:The merging process took place years ago. In theory, I am now what Ted defines as the permanent avatar or higher self.
That's an interesting statement. So would you say what exactly changed during that merging process?
My perspective changed. It is not a merging per se. It is a recognition, a realization, and an acceptance that I am more than this VR body and that includes the FWAU. I am more than the FWAU. I have come to realize it through experience, research and the study of many models.

Here is your perspective as a VR avatar: That is because you are your FWAU right now and you will be until the merging process will occur some time after physical death. Up to that point you are able to explore available planes, which are opened to you by the LCS/your guides/your IUOC (who watch you all the time). When you're back to your original IUOC personality, then it's a whole new reality.

Here is mine: That is because I am a permanent avatar (higher self). I am able to use my FWAU to explore available planes, which are opened to me by the LCS/my guides/my IUOC (who watch me all the time). I have my IUOC's (mind) personality. I am playing a character in a VR PMR.

You see, the LCS et al is not interested in the VR avatar (the you you think you are). It is interested in the permanent avatar who is playing the VR avatar.
jakub
Normal User
Normal User
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:38 am
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by jakub »

Jdjr wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:39 am My perspective changed. It is not a merging per se. It is a recognition, a realization, and an acceptance that I am more than this VR body and that includes the FWAU. I am more than the FWAU. I have come to realize it through experience, research and the study of many models.
Then you're only talking about changing the mode of thinking, you basically just educated yourself about the reality and learned to explore other realities, it doesn't mean that you merged with your IUOC. The IUOC has much higher capacity than human brain and different, ever-changing personality.
Jdjr
Power Poster
Power Poster
Posts: 1172
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by Jdjr »

jakub wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:07 pm
Jdjr wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:39 am My perspective changed. It is not a merging per se. It is a recognition, a realization, and an acceptance that I am more than this VR body and that includes the FWAU. I am more than the FWAU. I have come to realize it through experience, research and the study of many models.
Then you're only talking about changing the mode of thinking, you basically just educated yourself about the reality and learned to explore other realities, it doesn't mean that you merged with your IUOC. The IUOC has much higher capacity than human brain and different, ever-changing personality.
I have not merged with my IUOC. There is no merging in a digital reality. I am a permanent digital avatar (not the IUOC but a subset of it) getting a experiential sense data stream-a VR NPMR. A conscious sentient being with a personality. I am getting a VR PMR experiential sense data stream through my FWAU. My FWAU also has my personality. My personality plays the VR PMR avatar. The human brain is constrained to this reality and is part of the PMR digital avatar and has no bearing in this experience, theoretically speaking. The personalities remain the same. The quality of consciousness and entropy level change with each incarnation.
jakub
Normal User
Normal User
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:38 am
Contact:

Re: A disagreement between Tom and Ted Vollers about personality

Post by jakub »

Jdjr wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:57 pm I have not merged with my IUOC. There is no merging in a digital reality. I am a permanent digital avatar (not the IUOC but a subset of it) getting a experiential sense data stream-a VR NPMR. A conscious sentient being with a personality. I am getting a VR PMR experiential sense data stream through my FWAU. My FWAU also has my personality. My personality plays the VR PMR avatar. The human brain is constrained to this reality and is part of the PMR digital avatar and has no bearing in this experience, theoretically speaking. The personalities remain the same. The quality of consciousness and entropy level change with each incarnation.
So instead of merging back to IUOC and creating new FWAU, you just keep using over and over the same FWAU for many incarnations? Never heard Tom or anyone else mention anything like this but it should definitely be possible. I believe this to also be the case with children who remember past lives - they have the same personality because sometimes when they had died prematurely and maybe missed some desired lessons they just dive back in with the same FWAU and its developed attributes.
Post Reply

Return to “Raves - Positive Opinion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests