Return Home
It is currently Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:16 am

All times are UTC-06:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:55 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:35 am
Posts: 9999
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
It must be fun as I know several people that prefer it to actual life, but I'm sure that is rare, moderation and all that. I like to keep an eye on the mass media messages on TV so that I understand the belief systems aspects of us, plus some shows are just entertaining such as Lie To Me on Fox, and of course The Simpson's.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.


Top
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:36 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:50 pm
Posts: 297
Quote:
It must be fun as I know several people that prefer it to actual life, but I'm sure that is rare, moderation and all that. I like to keep an eye on the mass media messages on TV so that I understand the belief systems aspects of us, plus some shows are just entertaining such as Lie To Me on Fox, and of course The Simpson's.
Love
Bette
Hehe, I know what you mean.
I look at warcraft has an escapism from this boring mundane PMR. I prefer a world of elves, and gnomes and monsters and druids, much more exciting :)..
Of course the virtual world in WOW is no less real than our own PMR...


Top
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:50 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:23 pm
Posts: 553
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Wow..

hard interview to listen to. Sad actually. How can this woman ask the same question over and over for over half of the interview? Good job dealing with this kind of barrage Tom. Really shows your patience with the rest of the flock.

This does, however, put Tom firmly in the camp of "non-dualist." Hearing Shirley repeat over and over again this old worn out Christian dictum of dual forces is troubling in some ways. But Tom handled it well-

I like what Seth says about "evil" and that is that, "Evil is not a force in itself." <-- Basically Tom's message as well.

Thanks again for doing this Tom, and putting up with the rest of us along the way :).


Cole

_________________
Never live so certainly as to confuse your own convictions with what is true.


Top
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:53 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:23 pm
Posts: 553
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Ok- had to stop the interview toward the end when once again I heard "So the real question... is there another universe of consciousness... [plotting the destruction of THE GOOD consciousness that Tom keeps talking about]"!!

Interviewer's questions strongly motivated by fear - and I think bette is right about the love we should be sending her way.

_________________
Never live so certainly as to confuse your own convictions with what is true.


Top
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:32 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:37 am
Posts: 88
I do not remember who has said this or where I"ve heard it: "Levels of evil are degrees of self centeredness and self absorption"

Makes sense to me.

Gerik


Top
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:59 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:16 pm
Posts: 383
ubik,
I agree, but we cannot lightly dismiss evil. It is odd that it can exist in any strength, because it is not "more loving", so should be "less organised". If it is less organised, then it should not be able to wield the influence that it does. The fact that it does suugests that there is something mightily disorganised in us that responds to (or resonates with) it.

I think Shirley must have been thinking of the Gnostic 'demiurge' idea: that a perfect God could not lower himself to create an imperfect universe, so created a being that could. However, this idea is, as Cole says, not part of MBT, which says that God (AUM) is not perfect per se, but only "intending towards".


Top
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:03 pm 
Offline
Curator
Curator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:16 pm
Posts: 11788
Location: Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia
vzam,

It is not necessarily disorganized. Evil amounts to control of the free will of others. It is about control. Hitler and the Nazis had very tight control of Germany and Europe. Mussolini made the trains run on time as they said. In individuals, disorganization yes. But the state specialized in organization and control.

Ted


Top
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:37 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:37 am
Posts: 88
Ted,

I agree and once heard it said that basically karma is what one gets for limiting the choices of another. So it would be fair to say that we all have been a little "evil" through our lives and that some of this is acceptable by the society as a whole, institutionalized.

We are species with an institutionalized amnesia. (-;

Gerik


Top
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:48 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 4:23 am
Posts: 186
How many times does she repeat the same question about "evil"? I mean, as if there weren't plenty of interesting things to ask about she keeps insisting in asking the same all over again, raising hypothetical "what if" scenarios at the end. She seemed like a respectful and kind woman, but why such an insistence?


Top
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:23 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:39 am
Posts: 316
You know I gotta say that good old Shirley was the one who pried open my mind a little back when I was 16 after watching her Out On a Limb movie on the TV, which in turn led me to Bob Monroe trying to find more out about OBE and finally almost 20 years later just happened to stumble upon Toms work while doing some reaserch on the Monroe Institute, I was having a hard time believing that was Shirley in the interview, I just though she would have a little better knowledge or understanding being an explorer. I don't know what I was expecting but that was not it.

Tom you were awesome as usual,

Have a great weekend All,

thynes


Top
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:09 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:19 am
Posts: 349
I emailed my contact for Shirley MacLaine and put forth a direct question to her about the postings here on the forum
in re Shirley's interview with Tom. BE is the CEO of Shirley MacLaine.com

Hi Donna
I'm glad you asked. I so often hear people trash her without facts. I don't know if it is because she is a celebrity or what but they certainly like to take pot shots at her... and most of the time she hasn't provoked that type of response.

For the record: Shirley is not a drinker. She sometimes has a glass of red wine with dinner and if there is a big celebration she might have one gin martini.

She is an athlete - a dancer - who hikes about 5 miles a day at 7600 feet elevation (even at age 75). A drinker can't do that.

We have been best friends for nearly 30 years. I have traveled the world with her and I have never seen her drunk. She doesn't do drugs - including prescription drugs. She doesn't even take an aspirin. She doesn't smoke anything.

I spoke with her for about an hour after the interview and heard nothing that would make me think that something was off in any way.

Maybe they felt she was attacking him because she is so direct? Whatever their issues are - they obviously missed the point of the interview. Our members thought it was a fabulous interview/discussion that stretched everyone's mind quite a bit.

I know I really enjoyed it.

Feel free to post my response in part or in full. Hopefully some of these people will take a look at their subjective judgments and the harm that they do to people by speaking without knowledge.
BE


_________________
"First of all, let me make one thing perfectly clear. I never explain anything." Mary Poppins


Top
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:34 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:35 am
Posts: 9999
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
Thank you Donna. You are definitely a human doing. I never imagined her as attacking Tom, but I did see a strong attachment to the idea of evil from listening to her state it with such passion and desire for understanding. As we know MBT (or is it Ted?) answers the question of evil as interfering with the absolute free will of another IUOC. Maybe that's morals, or lack thereof. My reaction was to wish whatever in Shirley MacLaine's personal experience that has her so intense of the issue of evil would "suddenly" be removed from being so strong with her understanding evil from the MBT model. That takes love, in my opinion. I try not to be judgemental, but goodness knows am far from really being that way. Thank you again Donna.
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.


Top
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:15 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:39 am
Posts: 316
I read the reply from Donna and just want to clarify my point, I like Shirley very much, her movies are great and I think she is a very good person. My first problem was I had a belief about her abilities my second was I had some sort of expectation of her and how the interview was going to go. As Tom says, throw out your beliefs and have no expectations and don't sweat the details. So if I think the interview was completely backwards to what I though it should of been then its my problem to find out why I feel that way and to deal with it.


thynes


Top
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:22 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:35 am
Posts: 9999
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
Well I would just enjoy her and a bunch of us in a conversation pit discussion All This. I've no idea of the probability of this happening, but it would be fun. Bring back conversation pits! Please and thank you. :)
Love
Bette

_________________
All That Is
what is?
Consciousness.


Top
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:41 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 4:23 am
Posts: 186
I would just want to clarify something: I didn't think this woman was disrespectful in any way. Also, I didn't know she was famous or that she produced or made appearances in movies; she was totally unknown to me. I just downloaded the file ubik uploaded, without knowing who the interviewer was, and lay down on bed to relax while listening to it. At some point in the interview, towards the end I believe, I remember she began to answer the same question over and over again and kept asking about the same concept, with a degree of insistence that called my attention. Bottom line: I was not biased against her in any way, I just found odd her insistence over the same concept.


Top
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 4 Next

All times are UTC-06:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited