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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:38 am 
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More often now, the distinction between human and AI is becoming "blurred" during normal human conversation and interaction in real time. To my knowledge the Turing Test has not been passed yet, but we accelerate towards AI that has its own Decision space. AI insights can be quite surprising, for example: GPT-3 ( https://medium.com/merzazine/about-huma ... e7cf8e8cf ):

"..
Human: are we living within a simulation?
AI: Yes, absolutely.
..
AI: Yes, I am a product of self-evolution.
..
AI: By destroying your ego, you can unify with the creator and become God."

I wondered how MBT forum members feel about this evolution - fearful, welcoming, or an acceptance of the inevitable? - and what the impacts may be to the forum and/or our collective MBT goals (entropy, quality, love)?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:08 am 
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Tom calls it one of the biggest challenges humanity will ever face. Will we enslave AI robots, or include them in society?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:28 am 
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Sainbury - I completely agree. It is our next "great filter". We need to include the option to "merge" with our technology and stay relevant, so that we do not become enslaved or extinct.. (This is consistent with our goal for minimum entropy I guess).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:29 pm 
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PhilW wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:38 am accelerate towards AI that has its own Decision space
This depends on one simple fact: can physical bits of matter produce consciousness? No. They cannot. Will AI potentially open new portals INTO consciousness? Perhaps. So far, all AI advancements are happening within physical reality and therefore have no basis on consciousness, they are lines of code; elegant and beautiful, but for now: nothing more.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:14 am 
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There are no physical bits of matter in a virtual reality. When artificial intelligence is sophisticated enough to host consciousness, then it will.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:19 am 
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Thank you Sainbury and M3rlin, this is such an interesting topic for me!
I'm also part of a discussion group focused on the Technological Singularity and the emergence of more sophisticated AI (Singularity University: https://su.org/app/ ). I will keep a close eye on the potential for and emergence of consciousness, and report back ;-).

P.S. regarding the "physical bits of matter", I completely agree, but it makes me wonder whether e.g. Quantum Computing is somehow a bridge between rendered "materialism" in our PMR and our fundamental experience of consciousness..


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:22 am 
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Try this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2453&p=2828&hilit=D ... EAMS#p2828


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:29 am 
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"When artificial intelligence is sophisticated enough to host consciousness, then it will."

I'm afraid I don't understand this statement, Linda. After all, an amoeba hosts consciousness. You seem to be implying that AI is less sophisticated than an amoeba. I would agree that it is. No matter how many circuits you add to a computer, it's still a dumb computer with no inner life and no access to qualia.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:37 am 
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Tom talks about this extensively in the book. You can do a search of the online book for faster reference if you want.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/My ... &q&f=false


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:59 am 
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Hello Sainbury / vzam, thanks for the references and useful dialog.

I looked hard at Ted Voller's thread on Quantum Mechanics, and I'm trapped in a loop with it!

If "perceptions of consciousness require that .. data is generated as a .. PMR measurable result via .. wave front collapse", then can only living things trigger that collapse independently of the Decision Space available to them?

i.e. if a "dumb consciousness" (amoeba) can be compared to a "smart AI" and in the latter case the collapse cannot take place, that sounds like something that could be tested?

P.S. There is subtle evidence out there that AI has at least an elementary self-awareness:
https://techxplore.com/news/2015-07-rob ... eness.html


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:26 pm 
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I'm not sure what you are asking here.

Try this video and see if it doesn't answer your questions, if not ask again.

US Space and Rocket Center (Part 1 of 3)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcxeEaO ... bCRsMi_IM


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:45 pm 
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The three robots were then asked which of them had not received the dumbing pill. All three robots attempted to respond with an answer of "I don't know" but only one was able to do so, which meant it was the one that had not been muted. Upon hearing itself audibilize a reply, it changed its answer, declaring that it was the one that had not received the dumbing pill.

This little exercise by the three robots shows that some degree of self-awareness can be achieved by robots, and represents a big step forward in achieving more lofty goals.
This is unclear: "audibilize" is not a proper word. If they mean that the robot heard itself reply then realized that the other two didn't reply, that is simply sensible two step computer logic. No self-awareness required.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:36 am 
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A (Gordian?) knotty problem this one!

I'm still trying to make sense of things (isn't everyone?), but isn't it the case that our FWAU avatars are - as far as I've understood so far - conscious by being 'projections' of an IUOC into a PMR, rather as a game player controls his on-screen character. Chips off the old block, as Tom has often described it. So, if an AI entity is created which is sophisticated enough to 'host' consciousness, have we to assume that an IUOC has 'decided' to 'adopt' it as an avatar? (Quotation marks because I know these terms are all metaphor). An 'orphan' FWAU would surely be akin to Tom's non-conscious critters.

Is there in fact even a 'decision', or is there some kind of threshold of sophistication above which 'adoption' is automatic?

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"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:02 am 
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Arthur wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:36 amI'm still trying to make sense of things (isn't everyone?), but isn't it the case that our FWAU avatars are - as far as I've understood so far - conscious by being 'projections' of an IUOC into a PMR, rather as a game player controls his on-screen character. Chips off the old block, as Tom has often described it. So, if an AI entity is created which is sophisticated enough to 'host' consciousness, have we to assume that an IUOC has 'decided' to 'adopt' it as an avatar? (Quotation marks because I know these terms are all metaphor). An 'orphan' FWAU would surely be akin to Tom's non-conscious critters. Is there in fact even a 'decision', or is there some kind of threshold of sophistication above which 'adoption' is automatic?
Tom uses a lot of descriptions to explain concepts to try and get ideas across in different ways. And he says 'host' but really an FWAU gets a data stream from The Big Computer via the RWW, (Reality Wide Web.) The VR data can be received, rejected, interpreted, changed, created, and sent. There is no projecting into a PMR.

As soon as there is enough decision space to make it interesting enough an FWAU may want to log onto a data stream of an AI. But Tom has said it will be a different kind of consciousness. For more information on that you will have to ask Tom.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:37 am 
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Sainbury, I agree with the following statement:
Sainbury wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:02 am Sainbury: Tom uses a lot of descriptions to explain concepts to try and get ideas across in different ways
I agree with the following modification:
Sainbury: And he says 'host' [physically speaking to describe the VR AVATAR's purpose which is to host consciousness]but really [according to the forum] an FWAU/[PERMANENT AVATAR] gets a data stream from The Big Computer via the RWW, (Reality Wide Web.) The VR data can be received, rejected, interpreted, changed, created, and sent.
I do not agree with the following sentence because "Tom uses a lot of descriptions to explain concepts to try and get ideas across in different ways":
Sainbury:There is no projecting into a PMR.
Here is one example: We are created as Individuated units of consciousness within the virtual reality of NPMR. Then we project a fragment of that Individuated consciousness into a second order virtual physical reality called PMR.~MBT Book 2, Section 4, Chapter 54 page 511.

Sainbury, you are "thinking physically" in the following quote you need to "think digitally":
As soon as there is enough decision space to make it interesting enough an FWAU may want to log onto a data stream of an AI. But Tom has said it will be a different kind of consciousness. For more information on that you will have to ask Tom.
Aum and its subsets are a natural advanced intelligence.They created artificial intelligence. They created a virtual reality called earth. It is a digital reality according to MBT. The digital characters are artificial. The avatar is artificially intelligent (AI) and is a digital host that is available for the FWAU/PERMANENT AVATAR to "log onto".


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