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 Post subject: Re: Forum reputation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:16 am 
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JDJR: Is it unreasonable to conclude that thus far this thread has "lived up to" the reputation of this forum?: Ego, fear and belief.
One person gives a take and one person responds with a string of ad-hominems that don't actually address points made.

It's not unreasonable to conclude, but this example here is just not the typical interaction trend of the detractors who have complained and given the reputation over. At least for Ted/Sainbury, who detractors have almost always complained about, there were disputes over MBT and points being made. Straight ad-hominems are much worse and probably worthy of moderation as moderation is a good tool for upholding a specific standard as well when a person can't control themselves, instead of giving free range to go on tangents about people's autism and throw insults. This is also proving what I wrote as well, considering VB agrees with the detractors but is also bringing the same/worse than those detractors complained about. He does fit an archetype I outlined overall, and I assume that was the emotional trigger for him as well lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum reputation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:13 am 
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Sainbury, please participate in this discussion.
Human+ wrote:In the MBT forum, people typically operate with a left-brain interface as they discuss concepts and ideas in state of intellectualizing each other's output rather than opening to interpersonal connection with others through right-brain social engagement. This is because this place is a BB forum and interaction is limited to text-based dialogue where expression is limited, visualization of another human is limited, and conversations between people are slowed down to a big ball of theoretical information as posts rather than a faster back-and-forth dialogue that represents two humans socializing in real life.
Expressions initiate the unfavororable opinions of this forum. The forum feedback in response is notably limited to negative tone and color. Campbell does not create negativity during his video interaction. Why is that approach not emulated here? Campbell operates at the being level. You describe the intellectual level. In the not so distant past people wrote letters to each other "opening to interpersonal connections with others through social engagement". You have heard of love letters and Dear John letters.
Human+ wrote:Which brings me to my take, that I don't care about the reputation given by some others, not only because in 99% of cases, the person complaining was disproportionately more arrogant/egotistic themselves, but because I prefer the perspective that, as a substitute for community and personal connection, this forum is not a good option -- there are many other channels of MBT now on different platforms, that offer a better sense of community, friendliness, and validation to each other for personal experiences. This forum should instead remain as an archive of MBT concepts explained/hashed out and a more niche place for left-brained/autistic folk to focus more on the concepts of MBT more strictly in an intellectual capacity. So I am saying, because we have seen so many people come here with their own ideas/opinions/experiences talking in other metaphors and rejecting/dismissing the MBT perspective, you will find validation and exploration of your personal experiences in other MBT groups but let's keep the MBT forum focused on MY BIG THEORY OF EVERYTHING BY TOM CAMPBELL, as it was designed.
Campbell's perspective and his TOE are derived from his being level correct? Your perspective comes from the intellectual level, yes? MBT is about a being level perspective, yes?
Human+ wrote:On another note, I don't see a problem with Sainbury's comments despite the context cues from you quoting her here and things you've complained about before. At the very worst, her comments can seem dismissive as she tries to answer in an MBT perspective or answer how she thinks Tom would answer a question generally but there is not much else than the initial intent to provide an answer. Besides that, Sainbury is the most productive/helpful member on the forum today for providing MBT resources to questions. I have seen much more problematic behavior from you and I guess this axe to grind with Sainbury of all people, on a forum of only a few active members, stems from her disagreeing with your perspectives and also bringing things back to an MBT perspective.
Sainbury and I have made much progress.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum reputation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:33 am 
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Jdjr wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:33 am Is it unreasonable to conclude that thus far this thread has "lived up to" the reputation of this forum?: Ego, fear and belief.
It is typical of many, many interactions on the forum in the past. If it didn’t immediately start out that way things quickly degraded.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum reputation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:03 am 
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Expressions initiate the unfavororable opinions of this forum
Yes but in talking about expressions, I was giving context for our platform for communication based on a fresh example where Mrszam initially interprets defensiveness and some hostility where it is not necessarily there.

The point was that one factor of conflict is caused by confusing social signals where you can't really interpret tone or intent as well over text-based dialogue in a BB forum.

And the larger point is that it's one of many other factors that contribute to a different social dynamic where our social hardwiring is toned/switched down which manifests into more difficulty in opening interpersonal relationships around feelings and deeper connections with others.
Campbell operates at the being level. You describe the intellectual level.


I describe the intellectual level/interface as how it comes forth in the context of this platform for communication where you are doing text-based communication, can't see others, and have much more difficulty reading expressions of tone and intent over text while discussing theoretical topics. Naturally, it's a toned down environment for social expression and connecting with others. Why can't we be like Tom operating from the being level? Well some do operate from the being level but people come here in varying degrees of development and offer varying degrees of effort. I wouldn't be expecting people to mirror Tom Campbell unless they are trying to force the positive behavior and I wouldn't be harsh towards them if they're not like Tom campbell. if you want to raise behavior/intent to his likeness, you will not get there by simply having a talk about what we need to do instead!
In the not so distant past people wrote letters to each other "opening to interpersonal connections with others through social engagement". You have heard of love letters and Dear John letters.

Aside from the much different context of love letters vs posts on the MBT board centered around theory with anonymous, 'strangers', I think you should write love letters then if you think it'd help. But to me, it's more probable that the left-brain interface and level of interpersonal connection doesn't shift much for the reasons I have already outlined previously from how communication is framed here on a BB board for theoretical talk. It's not a call to change the forum, you all can do what you want but on this topic, I am saying I don't mind if the MBT forum does remain a niche place for more left-brain engagement/in-depth logical analysis as there are now much better channels for MBT groups for a sense of community and interpersonal connection. But there is a reason why discussion in other MBT groups typically doesn't reach the same level of nuance and analysis as it has on the forum and I say let it be what it is. It fulfills a role.

Yes, people wrote love letters back then, I don't say text-based communication is simply the issue, but you're not really going to try and say we would all talk to each other in real life the way we do on the board, would you? So my point is further illustrated.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum reputation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:55 pm 
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jdjr wrote:Expressions initiate the unfavororable opinions of this forum
Human+ wrote:Yes but in talking about expressions, I was giving context for our platform for communication based on a fresh example where Mrszam initially interprets defensiveness and some hostility where it is not necessarily there.
Expressions also spill out onto a page beyond the intellectual interpretation of theory and some of us can read them correctly. When one uses Marszm's interaction as an example, it becomes evident that his sense was somewhat accurate. These are Sainbury's words: It is hard when someone gives me a completely different point of view than how I am presently interpreting information. Now whether it was hostility, defensiveness or some other intellectual factor of fear, ego or belief is less important than understanding that, by her own admission, she has difficulty processing information (other theories) outside of her understanding of MBT. She was being "authentic" and that is an admirable quality.
jdjr wrote: Campbell operates at the being level. You describe the intellectual level.

Human+ wrote:I describe the intellectual level/interface as how it comes forth in the context of this platform for communication where you are doing text-based communication, can't see others, and have much more difficulty reading expressions of tone and intent over text while discussing theoretical topics.
If one operates from the intellectual level (fear, ego and belief) this problem persists.
Human+ wrote:Naturally, it's a toned down environment for social expression and connecting with others. Why can't we be like Tom operating from the being level? Well some do operate from the being level but people come here in varying degrees of development and offer varying degrees of effort. I wouldn't be expecting people to mirror Tom Campbell unless they are trying to force the positive behavior and I wouldn't be harsh towards them if they're not like Tom campbell. if you want to raise behavior/intent to his likeness, you will not get there by simply having a talk about what we need to do instead!
There is an obvious distinction between the individuals representing sole knowledge of a thing and those seeking an understanding of it. The latter will be in all shapes and sizes. The former is fundamental to the thing the latter seeks to understand.
jdjr wrote: In the not so distant past people wrote letters to each other "opening to interpersonal connections with others through social engagement". You have heard of love letters and Dear John letters.
Human+ wrote:Aside from the much different context of love letters vs posts on the MBT board centered around theory with anonymous, 'strangers', I think you should write love letters then if you think it'd help. But to me, it's more probable that the left-brain interface and level of interpersonal connection doesn't shift much for the reasons I have already outlined previously from how communication is framed here on a BB board for theoretical talk. It's not a call to change the forum, you all can do what you want but on this topic, I am saying I don't mind if the MBT forum does remain a niche place for more left-brain engagement/in-depth logical analysis as there are now much better channels for MBT groups for a sense of community and interpersonal connection. But there is a reason why discussion in other MBT groups typically doesn't reach the same level of nuance and analysis as it has on the forum and I say let it be what it is. It fulfills a role.Yes, people wrote love letters back then, I don't say text-based communication is simply the issue, but you're not really going to try and say we would all talk to each other in real life the way we do on the board, would you? So my point is further illustrated.
The being level is fundamental to love. The intellectual level is fundamental to fear, ego and belief. At the being level one is authentic.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum reputation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:18 pm 
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These are Sainbury's words: It is hard when someone gives me a completely different point of view than how I am presently interpreting information.
That's not what I said. This is what I wrote.

"It is hard when someone gives you a completely different point of view than how you are presently interpreting information. MBT takes some paradigm shifts in thinking before you understand the TOE. And they aren't easy shifts to make. MBT explains how reality works in a theory of everything. And how everything is related. How you are interpreting your experiences is very normal. And as I said before, if the information I've given you isn't helpful, then disregard it."


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 Post subject: Re: Forum reputation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:40 pm 
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Expressions also spill out onto a page beyond the intellectual interpretation of theory
Who said they don't? In fact expression, whether interpreted incorrectly or actually given from one's ego can both be facilitated in an environment like this. I outlined before why certain factors can make the ego more forth-coming in this environment.
When one uses Marszm's interaction as an example, it becomes evident that his sense was somewhat accurate
Lol. You say it's, "evident" and then you use downplaying language like, "it was evident it was somewhat accurate" and didn't actually commit to the accusation of defensiveness by saying, "whether it was defensiveness or not".

You gave two variables that undermine the certainty of the direct accusation. Actually, we are always assuming intent from another human because we have to assume. It's extremely hard to know with 100% certainty one's intent. I.E. hard problem of consciousness, JDJR. In fact, I disagree that it sounded defensive at all and didn't interpret any signals from language that would lead me to believe it was defensiveness. But language in text form was all I had to interpret those signals in the first place.

Whether it was the case or not, you're missing the point, JDJR. Look at my first post holistically.

There is an obvious distinction between the individuals representing sole knowledge of a thing and those seeking an understanding of it. The latter will be in all shapes and sizes. The former is fundamental to the thing the latter seeks to understand.
um... ok?


The intellectual level is fundamental to fear, ego and belief
Are you not aware that you're also in the intellectual level when you type like this? Fundamentally this forum and standard for communication necessitates a left-brain interface. We engage with beliefs all the time, most conversations are theoretical and placed in a particular lense.

It just seems like the overall point is being missed. We can always change topics and hear your take on the forum's reputation, JDJR.


Last edited by Human+ on Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum reputation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:44 pm 
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Sainbury wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:18 pm
These are Sainbury's words: It is hard when someone gives me a completely different point of view than how I am presently interpreting information.
That's not what I said. This is what I wrote.

"It is hard when someone gives you a completely different point of view than how you are presently interpreting information. MBT takes some paradigm shifts in thinking before you understand the TOE. And they aren't easy shifts to make. MBT explains how reality works in a theory of everything. And how everything is related. How you are interpreting your experiences is very normal. And as I said before, if the information I've given you isn't helpful, then disregard it."
Then I midunderstood your answer because that is the way you responded to my question regarding the same theme.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum reputation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:13 pm 
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Linda(Sainbury) for clarity this is my entire post on the ghost thread:
Sainbury wrote:It is hard when someone gives you a completely different point of view than how you are presently interpreting information.
jdjr wrote:Linda, is this true about you? It is hard when someone gives me a completely different point of view than how I am presently interpreting information.
Sainbury wrote:The point I was making is that the avatar that played the ghost dog is no more. And so it would be the LCS playing the dog that would visit the 'kid.'
jdjr wrote:Yes, but the avatar (dog) does not reincarnate as you stated. This created confusion, and rather than correct it, you unintentionally somehow managed to offend a forum member so it seems. In fact, there is no such thing as reincarnation of the avatar or its personality (FWAU) according to MBT. The consciousness unit incarnates (arguable reincarnates).
Here is your response:
Sainbury wrote:Yes, thank you for bringing it up for clarification.
If you can, please answer the following question:

Linda, is this true about you? It is hard when someone gives me a completely different point of view than how I am presently interpreting information.

Thanks.


Last edited by Jdjr on Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum reputation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:20 pm 
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Human+ wrote:It just seems like the overall point is being missed. We can always change topics and hear your take on the forum's reputation, JDJR
We can agree to disagree. By definition, I expressed my take on the forum's reputation.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum reputation
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:41 pm 
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Jdjr wrote: Is it unreasonable to conclude that thus far this thread has "lived up to" the reputation of this forum?: Ego, fear and belief.
virtualbrain wrote:It is typical of many, many interactions on the forum in the past. If it didn’t immediately start out that way things quickly degraded.
Correct me if I am wrong, but is this where things degraded quickly?:

Human+ wrote:The most prevalent archetype for the person that will complain about the MBT forum has been specifically the ones that were not that interested in looking through MBT perspective or were looking to critique it with poor understanding or would prefer to argue things like politics and veganism and got shut down.
virtualbrain wrote:B.S.

You claim to be Human+ but you are nothing other than another authoritarian, refusing to accept a perspective other than your own.

You know nothing of being human.
Human+ wrote:This forum should instead remain as an archive of MBT concepts explained/hashed out and a more niche place for left-brained/autistic folk to focus more on the concepts of MBT more strictly in an intellectual capacity.
virtualbrain wrote:Your opinion. Obviously not shared by the owner, at least not any longer.

By the way, Marszm claims to be autistic but shows great humility to the point of worrying that he may have offended someone. I am left wondering if the problem with you is not that you are autistic but that you are simply a selfish A**h***.
Edited for public presentation.


Last edited by Jdjr on Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum reputation
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:04 am 
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Marszm wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:14 pm I got his book sitting right here next to me on my desk. I literally got it for the energy i can't really read good unless its an audio book but i will occasionally pop in there and read stuff.
Would the audio book version of MBT work out better for you, then? I haven't tried it myself 'cause sound tires me out quickly even without factoring in auditory processing issues, but if it's feasible for you to get it, could be worth a try. :D As far as I can tell, Audible is the only option for getting it in that format.


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 Post subject: Re: Forum reputation
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:00 pm 
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tobyorden wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:04 am
Marszm wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:14 pm I got his book sitting right here next to me on my desk. I literally got it for the energy i can't really read good unless its an audio book but i will occasionally pop in there and read stuff.
Would the audio book version of MBT work out better for you, then? I haven't tried it myself 'cause sound tires me out quickly even without factoring in auditory processing issues, but if it's feasible for you to get it, could be worth a try. :D As far as I can tell, Audible is the only option for getting it in that format.
Oh yeah my reading comprehension sucks! but I can listen to audiobooks great. I saw I can get toms mbt on my phone so i will do that soon. :D i have robert monroes audiobook but i keep falling asleep too. i think i will have to listen while at my desk. i have a habbit of crawling into a comfy bed and closing my eyes while listening to audiobooks... next thing ya know.... 6 chapters have gone by and i missed all of it!

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