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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:56 pm 
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To the moderators reviewing this post.

Please know that I am NOT attacking Mr. Campbell's work. I LOVE whaat I am discovering. I just have a little bit of dissonance that I need to clear up. I hope you'll let me do that. If not, I am not offended. Just puzzled...

This is a post I put in Youtube comments. One person read it but had no in depth comment to clear things up for me. I hope for more here.

From Youtube:
I've listened to this video. I like it. I have liked all the videos. I've recently been going through the My Big Toe series. I have a degree in EE and advanced degrees in Music and Physics (Long story), This (coupled with a life changing experience 20 months ago, as of this post) is why I like Mr. Campbell's work so much.

I bought the trilogy on iBooks and it turned out to be an audio book. I went through book one, Awakening, twice. I'm about half way through my first perusal of the second book, Discovery. Again give my background, this all resonates with me, particularly as I try to wrap my head around all of this.

However, I have experienced some dissonance in going over this. I want someone to tell me that I am wrong about Mr. Campbell, so that I can continue going through the books without feeling bad. I know, in my heart, that I should not judge the message based on the messenger, but, I am concerned, nonetheless.

1. ) Mr. Campbell referred to "mother nature" as a resilient babe (or words to that effect), and even made a rape analogy at one point. I raised my eyebrows a bit, but moved on. However, in book two, when making a reference to the inefficiency of mathematics to explain everything he made a reference to the notion the manhood would have no use for the limitations of math and the womanhood would REALLY have no use for it.

Having been raised by an amazing single mom, struggling with her own business and raising two kids in the 60's I am very sensitive to any hints of misogyny. My brilliant wife with a BS in math, a JD and LLM, daily impresses me. Add to that that my daughter has a double degree from Dartmouth in physics and economics (Phi Beta Kappa) and is currently working on a PhD in Econ at Yale, I can only feel that the world would be a better place IF WOMEN ran things. They should at least be equals at all levels.

So, tell me please that I have misinterpreted Mr. Campbell! However, please don't say I'm wrong. Explain why.

2,.) With training in electrical engineering and physics, I get the humor, believe me. We can be a little bit socially "abrupt" at times. If I was reading the books, this might not bother me. However, the audio books are in his own voice. He often likes to make "compliments" to the readers about how smart they must be, but his voice says "sarcastic and snarky." We're really not all that smart and that we need to wake up and smell the coffee, so to speak.

I am the FIRST person to admit I have a lot to learn. That is what lead me to My Big Toe. But I am concerned that Mr. Campbell is somewhat lacking in empathy.

Please, PLEASE convince me I'm wrong. I love his insistence on the importance of LOVE in our spiritual evolution. I'd hate to think it was just lip service.

I'm not abandoning my exploration. I like his website and youtube channel because I don't feel he is just trying to make a quick buck on the hopes of everyone to experience enlightenment. I respect his need to have some income to support this work but I love the fact that he isa just out there sharing unselfishly. I'd just like to get past these two sticking points.

I doubt anyone will read this, so I might try reaching out elsewhere. If you got thus far, thanks for reading.

------end Youtube post-------

I sincerely hope someone can help me out here.

Thanks.


Last edited by NickDrozdoff on Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:23 am 
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I just watched a couple more of his videos and they made me feel a bit better - a little bit, anyway.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:43 am 
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Would you be so kind as to quote and cite the rape analogy? Thank you. John


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:10 pm 
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I only have the audio books on my mobile devices. I'm pretty busy today, so it my be a while before I get it up here. Thanks for your patience.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:35 pm 
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I think I remember Tom saying that Mother Nature is resilient, but if we keep fouling rivers, oceans, and land we have to live with the feedback.

You might want to check out this:
Tom Campbell: Women's Rights Issues and Genetic Codes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSGKC1l ... omCampbell

Tom's wife, Pamela, has a doctorate in Physics, so I don't think he would make any remark about women not understanding math.

Tom also has degrees in Physics and Mathematics.

Tom talks about math a lot in this video:
Tom Campbell: My Big TOE Quantum Mechanics Experiments: Issues and Significance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2iCdjk ... omCampbell


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:56 pm 
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NickDrozdoff wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:10 pm I only have the audio books on my mobile devices. I'm pretty busy today, so it my be a while before I get it up here. Thanks for your patience.
Take your time. Now that you mention it by your reference, I realize that I too am also sensitive to "subtle" misogyny. I have read the trilogy and watched the videos. I have no recollection of misogynistic tones. I encourage you to grasp the theory first. This model and numerous other theories teach us to focus our attention outside of the bounds of this physical reality where gender does not exist. This theory is not about spiritual evolution. It is about the evolution of Consciousness. Regards,


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:23 pm 
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Thanks for all of this. It really helps.


Sainbury wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:35 pm I think I remember Tom saying that Mother Nature is resilient, but if we keep fouling rivers, oceans, and land we have to live with the feedback.

You might want to check out this:
Tom Campbell: Women's Rights Issues and Genetic Codes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSGKC1l ... omCampbell

Tom's wife, Pamela, has a doctorate in Physics, so I don't think he would make any remark about women not understanding math.

Tom also has degrees in Physics and Mathematics.

Tom talks about math a lot in this video:
Tom Campbell: My Big TOE Quantum Mechanics Experiments: Issues and Significance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2iCdjk ... omCampbell


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:27 pm 
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Right now, the only way I can reference the text is to actually listen to the whole audio book again (making it the third time). I'm doing so on my iPhone at 2X speed. Kinda funny hearing Mr. Campbell sounding like he's had a quart of Bustelo for breakfast!



Jdjr wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:56 pm
NickDrozdoff wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:10 pm I only have the audio books on my mobile devices. I'm pretty busy today, so it my be a while before I get it up here. Thanks for your patience.
Take your time. Now that you mention it by your reference, I realize that I too am also sensitive to "subtle" misogyny. I have read the trilogy and watched the videos. I have no recollection of misogynistic tones. I encourage you to grasp the theory first. This model and numerous other theories teach us to focus our attention outside of the bounds of this physical reality where gender does not exist. This theory is not about spiritual evolution. It is about the evolution of Consciousness. Regards,


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:19 am 
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NickDrozdoff wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:27 pm Right now, the only way I can reference the text is to actually listen to the whole audio book again (making it the third time). I'm doing so on my iPhone at 2X speed. Kinda funny hearing Mr. Campbell sounding like he's had a quart of Bustelo for breakfast!
Tom was having a lot of trouble with his throat back then. He was coughing a lot on his YouTube videos. And trying to get the whole book done on audio really strained his throat.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:43 am 
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I wasn't putting Mr. Campbell down for his voice. I think you missed my quip. I was listening to the book one on my iPhone at TWICE (2X) normal speed. Try it! It is REALLY fast. Bustelo is Cuban coffee. When you cook it it one of those stove top espresso brewers its as thick as paint and LOADED with caffeine. I was making a dumb joke about HOW FAST he was talking at 2X (double speed) - like he was loaded up on coffee (I know he doesn't drink coffee - part of the joke).

Obviously, not very good one!

Oh well, I am an engineer and physicist.
;-)

ND
Sainbury wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:19 am
NickDrozdoff wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:27 pm Right now, the only way I can reference the text is to actually listen to the whole audio book again (making it the third time). I'm doing so on my iPhone at 2X speed. Kinda funny hearing Mr. Campbell sounding like he's had a quart of Bustelo for breakfast!
Tom was having a lot of trouble with his throat back then. He was coughing a lot on his YouTube videos. And trying to get the whole book done on audio really strained his throat.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:50 pm 
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I found one quote in book 1, track 32, he speaks of mugging mother nature as she walks through her park. He then say “fortunately, she is an exceptionally and charitable sort and gracefully tolerates our abuses…”

Obviously, this isn’t the problem, but in a later aside in track 32 he says “In fact, mother nature so abhors bureaucracy that even if she gets raped she will not call the authorities.”

By and large, I am quite attracted to Mr. Campbell’s work, but I found this to be a stunningly insensitive analogy. Was it supposed to be clever? I found it distasteful.

He then goes on to say, later in the same aside, “On the other hand, as long as we’re respectful, she is willing to let us have our way with her whenever desire and indulgence pique our insatiable appetites.”

Ouch! I wish he had found a different way to make his point. I found this quite troubling. I have female friends who were abused and I couldn’t recommend this reading for fear of upsetting them.

Fyi, in the print version of the books, these are the asides in chapter 27.

I am quite disappointed, but will power on through the books. As a scientist, engineer, and musician, the concepts here make total sense to me, thus far, even if I am skeptical of the messenger. He does encourage skepticism, though.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:09 am 
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Mother Nature has been referred to in terms of a woman for a century or more in the US. Keep in mind that Tom is a 75+ year old man that is not woke.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:50 pm 
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NickDrozdoff wrote:Fyi, in the print version of the books, these are the asides in chapter 27.
I found the cite. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:21 pm 
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If the analogy made you uncomfortable - then it did its job because the point of the harsh language is to reflect the harsh treatment of our environment. The point of personifying mother nature is to bring about sensitivity by creating a link between how we feel about treating other people like that and how we treat the life & environment around us without second thought.

Ouch! I wish he had found a different way to make his point. I found this quite troubling. I have female friends who were abused and I couldn’t recommend this reading for fear of upsetting them.

Ultimately, the metaphorical point isn't about a human getting sexually raped and he doesn't go that in-depth in illustrating the analogy. In the context of "trigger" words, there's a fine line between wanting people to be gentler(which is good) and also wanting to control the things around you as a means of hiding from reality. Typically, when someone has PTSD from a very negative experience, we have always recommended therapy because someone shouldn't have to live with being put in terribly negative mental state from something that can be innocuous. But the perspective has changed from that individual seeking help for their trauma to making things a problem with everything else around them and requiring others to conform, I.E. Tom Campbell using a metaphor about rape towards a non-human in this case.


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