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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:19 pm 
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Hey Claudio,

Now of course, wanting to attract money doesn't necessarily need to have a bad outcome. For example, I always tell myself how I would love to be giving to this charity or that charity that can really use money, whether it's helping research for a child with cancer or helping victims of a hurricane disaster get back on their feet. Of course I've never had the money to be able to do this.

Even though I don't really use LOA for material purposes myself, I did tell myself though that should I start using LOA to attract money, that I would give back a portion to charity, for two reasons, #1 for the gratitude of receiving the money in the first place and #2 for the pure intent of wanting to help other victims that need the money to rebuild their home etc....

Even with all this said, I don't think material possessions are bad in of themselves. I mean they are toys, they are fun! Nothing wrong with using LOA to get toys that you want to play with :)....

Now if your intent to get the money and material posessions is so you can sit back and say, "hey look at me! I'm rich, I have all this stuff. I'm more powerful than you! I'm better than you!" Then yes, then attracting money for material means is not good.....But if it's used to make your life more easier and more fun and enjoyable without feeling the need to think you are better and more superior then someone else, then I don't see how it could be a bad thing.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:53 pm 
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Vestal. I agree with all you said. Now, consider that Tom's example gives a better lesson to somebody else that does not think like you do, like you showed in the post, but rather selfish people, that all they care is to have more and more, and more than their friends, neighbours, etc. In Miami Beach you can see so many people with so many expensive cars that they rarely use, so many real estate properties, and so on, that actually end up being used by their successors after they die. So many people buying expensive arts, antiques, that nobody ends up enjoying them so much.

Think that in a general audience Tom would focus more on the ones that need to learn more than on the ones that already get it (like most people in this forum :).

It's not about us, it is about the others (that are actually us as well :)

AUM sweet AUM :)

Claudio

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:01 pm 
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Very true Claudio. At least it was kinda cool to hear Tom come out and flat out say that the law of attraction works. That's the first time I ever heard him say that. I've heard him hint around at it before, but never just come out and say it like that.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:11 pm 
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Vestal, it's about the audience. LOA works, you know, I know, so many know, but usually the mainstream of people after LOA is for personal interest in getting more for themselves (attract, money, women, men, success, etc.). I don't imagine Tom either focusing on teaching remote viewing to thieves, etc. You're seeing the point. For some is better they know less.

Claudio

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:00 pm 
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Thank you Claudio -- you are correct, I focus my comments to the 80 people that were in the audience but even more so to those tens of thousands who will eventually watch the video. That example was meant to be a hard to forget shock at an emotional level to make a strong point: the law of attraction may work--but if you abuse it you may get a smack with a stick rather than (or along with) the carrot you wished for. Don't try to force the LCS to work against its own best evolutionary interests.

Thanks to all of you for bringing up a very good discussion. Your skepticism is excellent -- your personal reality must be a reflection of your personal experience.

Three points popped into my mind:

1) Of course, conscious intent can kill. That is often the point of voodoo and other such black arts. Consciousness is an evolving digital information system, not your mother. It is designed to be helpful and supportive toward positive evolution, but can be abused by those on a negative path. Free will bestowed by the LCS is unconditional free will - not " you are free to do whatever you want as long as it is what I want". The system is an equal opportunity employer -- it allows free will to do whatever it does -- and then provides appropriate natural consequences. Remember, the LCS is not a benevolent little old man playing with his pet people. Unconditional free will is a logical necessity of consciousness and the LCS must develop its strategy-to-evolve around that fact. That conscious intent modifies future probability provides the major feedback loop that facilitates self-modification (a condition necessary for evolution), and that feedback loop represents another fact of life that consciousness must live with.

2) You take death too seriously because you have a little picture PMR-based local perspective. The LCS self-optimizes in the big picture and for the long term - not in the PMR little picture short term. Like us, the LCS also has a limited decision space and must make choices to optimize its evolution. It makes those choices based on the probability of entropy reduction along each of the alternative paths. If the overall system will have a higher probability of lower entropy in the long term if Joe wins $100,000 because his family dies in the process of teaching him a valuable lesson, then so be it - remember nobody really dies - a few characters in the virtual reality swap reality frames for a very short time (as seen in the big picture). The down side is a few premature recyclings, the significance of which for those particular individuals (and everyone associated with those individuals) gets figured into the system optimizing process. The system optimizes within its constraints. The outcome depends on what each character was likely to gain or lose for each of the alternative futures. Nobody's evolutionary potential or growth opportunities are seriously damaged. Typically, everybody wins. Remember, there are random components, not everything is planned - the system is probabilistic not deterministic - it works (gets it right) most of the time, not all the time -- it is not a perfect system. It achieves successful optimization at the system level more often than not.

3) Such dramatic happenings are likely rare and such an outcome would not optimize to killing a family very often, but occasionally dramatic things do happen when all the right circumstances come together. Out of ten million events, a one in a million event happens occasionally.

Tom


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:10 am 
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Thank you Tom for that explanation, and I also want to thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to type this. I know you probably get tired of saying the same things over and over again. Your patience is amazing.
I'll sort through it and meditate on it. What you said in the video makes much more sense now that you've posted this....take care, good night and thanks again!


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 5:56 am 
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Thanks Tom for jumping in. A note to mention is that I used the term CS but my CS is like Tom's LCS (the LCS). I should use the LCS for consistency :) It's not about what the LCS can do for you but what you can do for the LCS :)

CS: Consciousness System
the LCS: the Larger Consciousness System

Clau

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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 6:25 am 
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Tom did post this a while back that is also relevant to the conversation as to undesired processes resulting in the manifestation of your intent.

From: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3718

"Quamta,

Consciousness is primary, actual, and fundamental while PMR (your body) is virtual -- a derivative of consciousness. This is the phrase to remember: The mind leads and the body follows. However, within PMR, body and mind are also part of an interactive system that must globally obey the defining ruleset -- at least to within some sufficient amount of uncertainty. individually, the ruleset can be subverted up to the point that a more global statement is being made.

Thus, if a strong, clear, well focused intent says: I want to quit smoking. Or, I want to be much thinner and lighter than I am now. then, because the mind leads and the body follows, the body that is led by that intent will most certainly quit smoking and lose weight -- but not magically. The psi uncertainty principle requires a process with enough uncertainty to globally discount psi as a necessary ingredient. Thus such intent may cause one or more things to happen: appetite is lost or curbed, metabolic rate is increased, one feels more inclined to take the stairs rather than the elevator. If normal nudging does not succeed with the first and the third, then schedule or sickness will force the skipping of meals, the elevator will not be working, the car will break down or friends will suggest walking together after lunch.

You or your wife or children will become allergic to smoke, other peoples smoke will begin to annoy you and smell bad, people with cigarettes begin to look childish and stupid, your best friend and your mother will both get terminal lung cancer, your workplace will ban smoking, you will suddenly realize that you are drug addict just like any other drug addict and not like the feel of that truth, the price of cigarettes will go up and you will lose your job. You begin to realize that people think less of you and avoid being around you because you smoke. You come to realize that he people you would most like to associate with are mostly non smokers and that people who smoke aren't as pleasant to be around and appear to have more issues and personal problems.

A weak, foggy or unfocused intent does the same thing but the results and effectiveness are also weak, foggy and unfocused. Results are poor

The bottom line: The virtual reality will conspire to follow a powerful intent within the bounds of psi uncertainty as long as all involved/affected sum up to a long term optimized path (gain) for the system with no significant Big Picture loss for any individual.

Tom C"


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 8:01 pm 
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Thank you Tom for posting such a lengthy reply and also I'd like to thank you over here for the recent letter to Viv posted elsewhere on the board. Great to hear from you, always, all ways.

Thank you Ramon for being so diligent at finding appropriate content and posting it for lazies like me. This section of what Tom had to say was particulalry relevant to me: "You or your wife or children will become allergic to smoke, other peoples smoke will begin to annoy you and smell bad, people with cigarettes begin to look childish and stupid, your best friend and your mother will both get terminal lung cancer, your workplace will ban smoking, you will suddenly realize that you are drug addict just like any other drug addict and not like the feel of that truth, the price of cigarettes will go up and you will lose your job. You begin to realize that people think less of you and avoid being around you because you smoke. You come to realize that he people you would most like to associate with are mostly non smokers and that people who smoke aren't as pleasant to be around and appear to have more issues and personal problems."

Thank you Vestal for voicing my thoughts of gratitude to Tom for his posts. It's always so wonderful receiving new data from Tom :)

And thank you Claudio, for your clarification. Clear communication is so vital and hard to come by. I appreciate it when people take the time to make themselves clearly understood.

And Bette, thank you for reading all of my posts ;-)


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:29 pm 
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Quote:
... I have just heard Tom say something I have never heard him say before => so intriguing! "There are really only two databases but I'm going to break one up into two pieces because it's easier to understand that way".
Ok, next question: Are the probable future database and the past (actualized/unactualized) database actually two separate databases?

Hmmm...

Could they be one and the same?


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Okay so you want a name for the two databases, one for each?
Love
Bette

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