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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:35 am 
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There appears from my perspective to be some discrepancies on what happends after death.
I´ve read both "My Big Toe" and William Buhlmans "Adventures Beyond the Body".

According to Tom you are kept in a between state while transitioning from this life to the next. And from what I´ve read you
always reincarnate (after doing a life review and planning) and begin again in a fresh new body (human or other form if you want).

But Buhlman describes the afterlife rather ordinary and mundane in some cases. You can go on living your old life although you are really dead.
He also says that people who dies suddently such as in accidents can be shocked into repeating the last moments of their life over and over again and get stuck (ghosts?)

Since Both Tom and William is in the same afterlife series documentary it seem strange that they have conflicting views on the afterlife, or is there something I´ve missed?

Sincerely
Karl


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:49 am 
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Karl,

Actually, Tom has talked about entities getting stuck after death.

Tom: "Many actually get stuck in self-referential loops -- a self-reinforcing ego attachment and belief that is tenaciously clung to (e.g. religious fundamentalists) -- but most can be popped out of that loop without too much effort. A few are so obsessed with their ego attachments and beliefs that getting them to pull their head up out of their obsession and look around at the larger reality is more challenging. Almost all are eventually recovered from their "endless" self-referential loops of obsessive ego attachment -- some are just more challenging than others."

From the thread "Coming Back": viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2834

This is a great thread for understanding Tom's take on what happens after death.

He also talked about a particular rescue mission he was assigned to in the Conscious Media Network interview. It involved a man who had taken his family out in a boat when a storm came up and caused the deaths of his entire family. After death, the man was stuck in the water searching for his family with the guilt of their deaths locking him in that place for an indeterminate time. If I remember correctly, Tom was able to convince him his family was fine and that he would take him to them thus freeing him from that particular "self-referential loop."

Ramon


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:09 am 
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Karl,

You can also read Robert Monroe's books for some insights and also the books based upon hypnosis digging out life after and between life experiences by Michael Newton. Basically, how you see this is determined by how you understand reality to be set up and individuals experience things based upon, as stated above by Ramon, how they understand things and are 'fixed' by beliefs and ego, or not. Relative beginners experience and understand things much differently from the more advanced who have been through the cycle more often and don't need as much hand holding and structuring of the experience. Basically whatever is done as necessary to keep you functional and stable through the transition without forcing or disruption.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:00 pm 
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re-reading one of Tom's old posts in the above link...

"Tom: That character (you) is a projection of a copy of a portion of YOUR content, a part of YOU (the big YOU), a virtual characterization of YOU constrained by a rule-set -- a virtual alter ego -- working to become an alter no-ego. "

this got me wondering...what is the value of egolessness to my higher self, my IUOC?

If my FWAU becomes egoless, does this mean my IUOC becomes egoless, or is the IUOC in a natural state of egolessness?

Why make an FWAU ego, just for the purpose of destroying it?

Is not the even higher purpose to gather information and experiences, to feed my IUOCs database and become efficient?

or, is my FWAU's ego equivalent to my IUOC's ego?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:48 pm 
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I don't see it so much as destroying it as recognizing behavior which is selfish, inward pointing as egoic type behavior, and learning not to be that way. Ego is just a metaphor for what is fear based, and since fear and love can be said to be on a continuum the less ego the more love which the Larger Consciousness System finds attractive. I'd say.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:07 pm 
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Kroeran,

Your IUOC, as a way of referring to the totality, basically functions as an integral part of The One Consciousness doing whatever it does. I have joked that perhaps it functions to provide some string of digits as part of the value of PI. Whatever it does, it does as an integral part, not as an individuated consciousness and thus very much on the basis of egolessness. To such a degree that the concept is meaningless and not applicable.

As an IUOC, you are gifted with a consciousness on a coprocessing basis and function as virtual beings experiencing NPMR and periodically PMR. This can be doubled up and many things are possible in terms of parallel processing, but we will ignore that for simplicity. So your IUOC 'fosters' one or more FWAUs as virtual beings for the purpose of interacting with NPMR under the NPMR rule set and PMR under the PMR rule set as and when appropriate. This is done basically for the purpose of reducing entropy and improving QoC for the benefit of the IUOC and thus for the benefit of the full Consciousness System. As an integral part of the CS, what is gained for the benefit of the IUOC also accrues to the benefit of the CS.

What causes the creation or generation of an ego is a function of the rule set of the VR within which it functions, thus as a function of the way that the VR appears to us in our experience and the interactions experienced working with the then existing QoC and entropy level. The ego is not created deliberately, but as the result of the virtual experience. The characteristics will be different in the different VRs. So in PMR you get concepts like I'm the biggest, strongest, richest, own the most toys, get the most sex, am the most handsome, most beautiful, . . . Within NPMR where the rule set is different, the parameters of the 'ego' will be different, but given that the QoC and entropy levels are the same, there will exist some kind of distorted and inaccurate self concept to be overcome. The ego is something that must be and is naturally learned and thus it must be unlearned. But these are not things deliberately created but rather inadvertently created.

The purpose of the FWAU is not to gather information but is to gather experiences/interactions. These generate feedback to a greater or lesser degree and less or more rapidly and clearly, based also upon the rule set applicable to the VR. This interaction and subsequent feedback creates training for the digital neural net like being that we exist as at our core as an IUOC in the digital reality of CS. This reduces entropy and thus raises the QoC which we are capable of. This accrues to the benefit of our IUOC and thus to the benefit of all of CS. Thus the consciousness engine chugs around its circuit and we as the working fluid incrementally lower the entropy of CS and improve the QoC of The One Consciousness on each pass. Tom has explained this before.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:45 pm 
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Death is one of the those areas that NOBODY can say with 100% in regards to what happens.
Since none of us have been there on a conscious level, everything is speculation....Anyone that tells you that they know what exactly happens after death is ego driven on wanting to believe they know......Just keep an open mind, but don't listen to anyone that insists that they know what happens.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Whatever you believe in happens, and then reality kicks in. The fewer "beliefs" then, the quicker reality hits.
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Bette

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:56 pm 
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bette wrote:Whatever you believe in happens, and then reality kicks in. The fewer "beliefs" then, the quicker reality hits.
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Bette
Exactly Bette and what that reality is? Nobody knows.....
We have theories, but that's all...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:00 pm 
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vestal wrote:Death is one of the those areas that NOBODY can say with 100% in regards to what happens.
Since none of us have been there on a conscious level, everything is speculation....Anyone that tells you that they know what exactly happens after death is ego driven on wanting to believe they know......Just keep an open mind, but don't listen to anyone that insists that they know what happens.
Hi Vestal:

Is there an error on your statement or you are saying that Tom is ego driven?

Claudio

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:12 pm 
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Soprano, I'm just saying that nobody knows FOR SURE, because nobody has been there on a permanent basis, only those who've had NDEs, but they've always come back anyway...

I doubt if Tom thinks that he knows FOR SURE, as that would be impossible, as you can't know death unless you experience it. but Tom does have a theory on what happens.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:23 pm 
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vestal wrote:Soprano, I'm just saying that nobody knows FOR SURE, because nobody has been there on a permanent basis, only those who've had NDEs, but they've always come back anyway...

I doubt if Tom thinks that he knows FOR SURE, as that would be impossible, as you can't know death unless you experience it. but Tom does have a theory on what happens.
I agree. The "ego driven" is not necessarily true. You can estimate with a probability of what may happen after death, like any probability driven event. I may estimate that I have a probability of 99% of keep existing as a "soul" or "IUOC" and not be just ego driven. I had plenty of NPMR experiences to convinced me already, but I agree on your minimum % benefit to the doubt. Let's see. Let's talk after we both passed this PMR experience, and see :)

Claudio

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:25 pm 
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vestal,

You are expressing the PMR viewpoint on death. You are referring to it as a something that definitely happens and like a specific place. Tom has specifically described acting as part of a 'recovery squad' for those locked into a belief that is limiting their transition from PMR so he has certainly seen that 'side' of the death transition. We have all actually been there before unless one of us is that extremely rare and 'cherry' first timer to PMR. When it is a transition rather than a place and absolute 'occurrence', it is not that difficult to really say what happens. And one of the variables is that so many things can happen, depending upon the limitations and thus perceptions of the one making the transition.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:33 pm 
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Okay Claudio, I'll remember to buy you a beer in NPMR.... ;)

Thanks Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:01 pm 
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Ted Vollers wrote: The purpose of the FWAU is not to gather information but is to gather experiences/interactions. These generate feedback to a greater or lesser degree and less or more rapidly and clearly, based also upon the rule set applicable to the VR.
Ted
Reminds me of the scene in "Room With a View", where the "intellectual" suitor, a lover of words, is reading from a novel a scene of two romantics in a field, to impress the object of his affections, and the actual couple written about in the book are in the room. Illustrated the importance of living life, rather than observing it.

so the IUOC is collecting experiences/interaction through the FWAU...

is the effectiveness of this impacted by egolessness?
is egolessness a result or a goal? should we focus on egolessness, or focus on experiential intensity?
what impacts the rapidity of the feedback?
what impacts the clarity of the feedback?

where I am going with this...is wondering, if there is danger in approaching life too "spiritually"...thinking of ego rather than thinking of experience/interaction

Anyone seen the movie "Yes Man"? Do we need to be a little more like that to generate data to send back to our IUOC?

intensity of experience combined with clarity

so I am imagining an equation (for discussion purposes)

F - feedback to IUOC (end game)
Ex - Experience (intensity subject to FWAU choice and courage)
I - Interaction (volume and quality subject to FWAU choice and skills)
R - Rapidity (is this like speed of karma?)
C - Clarity (actionable with diet and meditation)
Eg - Ego

F = [(Ex + I) * R * C]/Eg

I have underlined the components we can directly act on.

Does ego undermine everything, or does it only undermine Clarity, which would remove the square brackets?

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