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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:48 pm 
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Wow Ted,
That was wonderful.

I was about to post this...

From my understanding it is not JUST the EGO and "little me" personality that drops away. It is the entire illusion or "virtual reality" that fades. The illusion of space-time fades as well

As I understand it Tom once explained that: "When you lose consciousness here, you gain consciousness somewhere else", also ... "When you die in a dream, you wake up here", and "when you die here you wake up in NPMR"

Have you ever had a dream where you were behaving in a manner, not quite normal, or perhaps a bit out of character? Either having a sword fight with a friend, or hacking up a horde of hated (imaginary) enemies with a battle axe? (oops, sorry those were some of my dreams, lol). Well, they were completely out of character for me (in case you didnt know)
As soon as you wake up the images begin to fade from memory. They may be clear and strong when you first wake up (possibly even disturbing) but after just a few hours you can barely remember it.

But then There are those dreams where you manage to rise above the "ruleset". Maybe you became lucid (and controled the dream reality), were able to fly, had super speed, or had conversations with "deceased" loved ones. These dreams seem to last longer and can stay with you for years.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:58 am 
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@Ted: I hope that you are right, because I definitely prefer that scenario a lot! It really is a beautiful description and gives back the whole idea a little romantic appearance.

My point is just, that I'd like to be consciously aware of any kind of transition of my current consciousness. I don't mind if it would even be the melting of my current self into the higher-self, which would again kind of dissolve my current personality to a degree by becoming a part of something bigger. But at least I would be aware of the process and not just switched off.

One of my strong personality traits is curiosity and I guess it is that part that doesn't like the idea of kind of going to sleep and then awake in a new baby's body having lost all of its memory. Which is close to switching off the old personality, storing it somewhere in the drawer and reboot with a fresh entity just including the state of entropy and maybe some other traits.

But you are all right: in the end it doesn't matter, since we are all part of AUM and that consciousness will always be there.

They can spare me the special treatment though. :-) If I am not greeted by my real loved ones (I mean including their free will at work), but just by some TBC calculations based representations from the database acting like my loved ones (I'd call that close to being Zombies or Holodeck pseudo personalities), all I'd gain from it would be a fuzzy warm feeling. But no real interacting with my real loved ones.

But I might say that now and then still be so afraid from the process of dying, I might need it anyways. Who really knows until it's time? :-)

@Lena: I have no problem accepting that I am just a tiny little spot in the database. I just don't want to miss anything in any kind of transition. So as long as I feel that I am able to consciously experience the whole thing, I am good with whatever happens. I just don't like the notion of being switched off and then just residing as some inanimate data in some place just for the sake that someone might want to look something up anytime in the future. :-)

@Montana: I'd love nothing more than finding out for myself. Unfortunately my NPMR visualization capabilities are pretty weak. I've started my whole "spiritual" journey about 2 years ago with my first visit to TMI's Gateway. And while others often have all kinds of interesting 3D experiences, I usually sit in the black maybe sometimes seeing some incoherent stuff in different shades of black that doesn't really tell me anything. I am not saying I haven't had some remarkable experiences with Hemi-Sync. I'd had an astonishing self-healing beyond any expectation after a home-accident with strong physically observable results (and a greatly reduced level of pain). I had two very emotional experiences and I also gained some information through subtle knowing, that I could confirm afterwards in PMR as true. Some days ago I finally became semi-lucid in a dream, which was remarkable progess for me, since I didn't dream hardly anything until about two years ago (at least I had no recollection whatsoever in the morning). But I am still far from seeing anything and consciously exploring the NPMR by pure intent. So as long as I am still stuck in that state, I have to settle with the next best, which is listening to the wisdom of someone more capable in exploring NPMR than I am. And I am very critical in my selection process of whom to accept information like this, don't worry. That's probably one of the reasons I ended up in this board, because I really like Tom's BS free approach to the whole topic. Yet I still keep in mind, that it is his TOE and despite all his great efforts his impressions might still be somewhat distorted by his prosaic physicist mentality. (Please don't get me wrong, I am not saying that this is the case, I am just always staying open-mindedly sceptic to whatever somebody tells me).

And no matter to what kind of models and conclusions I might come during my lifetime, I will always try to remain open for a complete surprise after death. Nobody in this forum here has truly died and truly completed the experience to the end. So IMHO there is still the chance left, that the process works a little differently than we all currently assume.

@Patrick: I hear you about the dreams. But I am not sure if compatibility with my personality (or being more or less in sync with my current character) is the reason for good or bad long-term recollection of the content. Or if it is just the emotional impact the dream content had on you. Like with usually any other memory. If it's a regular scene out of ordinary daily life, you often can't remember at the end of the week any details like for example what exactly you had for lunch on monday.
But it might be both playing a role as well, emotional impact and not being too much out of character.

Tronar

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:18 am 
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Tronar, when you realize you (what we normally identify with) are not an independent being to begin with, but just a specific expression of your consciousness which has agreed to abide by the PMR rule-set, one can be more detached to the prospect of "death" to the virtual 'character'. Tom has written some most excellent posts on PMR death and transitioning, they should be enlightening :)

Enjoy.
"Let me try to develop a more accurate, less limited perspective with some computer game metaphors. Like any metaphor, the fit is never perfect but I think it might lead you to a more useful perspective. Hopefully it will not scare you or depress you. If it does it will be because of a small PMR perspective becoming inadvertently twisted around self focused ego." - Liberation, Nirvana, Parinirvana...?
"There is no death -- just like the cowboy didn't die -- he was just virtual -- not real -- the physical isn't real, it is virtual. YOU are playing a data stream computer game that produces experience (the best teacher) and have just decided to change YOUR character's outfit (called a "meatsuit"). Nobody dies. YOUR character in the game is limited to work within the games rule-set. That character (you) is a projection of a copy of a portion of YOUR content, a part of YOU (the big YOU), a virtual characterization of YOU constrained by a rule-set -- a virtual alter ego -- working to become an alter no-ego. Little you is actually the big YOU in a constrained cowboy disguise, stop identifying with the little virtual you that doesn't really exist except as a virtual character in a computer game. YOU occasionally switch the virtual character's meatsuits to gain different experience and continue to play the game because YOU learn so much from it since the constraints of the rule-set simplify experience, interaction and feedback to a more effective level for learning. Nothing dies, your characters don't die, they are just virtual - virtual characters can't die, they are made up for the game, they are not real. Constraints come and go on a portion of YOUR content, that's all, and only during the coprocessing time share. YOU are real, not virtual, YOU are consciousness -- the sum of all YOUR virtual and non virtual experiences. YOU are using multiprocessing to send you (a portion of YOU) to a private school with rigid rules while YOU stay home and play computer games -- how sweet is that. You who are really YOU are identifying with the wrong you.

After all that, your mind is probably blown away and twice as confused. I don't put it this way very often because it is more that most people are conceptually prepared to deal with. Other models are warmer and fuzzier and make you feel more . well, real... and important... and special. Enough of this convoluted horsepucky -- Get real!" Coming Back
Why talk about our Higher Self and our Virtual Reality self? Good for more overall perspective. (Written by Ted and Tom)
"Roland 2b: What have you observed regarding life between lives and NPMR locations?

Tom: You are asking me to write another book here.
Combine the experiences of a bunch of pre-schoolers: 1) responding to a fire drill and 2) experiencing Disneyland into a single experiential event. Now imagine the adults/employees whose responsibility it is to matriculate the children through the process. That will give you the setting for the vast majority. Now imagine the same thing for a group of 12 year olds — that That will give you the setting for the top 1 percent. Now imagine the same thing for a group of 16 year olds — that That will give you the setting for the top .01 percent. Now imagine the same thing for a group of unsophisticated not particularly knowledgeable 25 year olds — that That will give you the setting for the top .001 percent.
Reality outside of the PMRs is, for the most part, subjective. We tend, out of habit, to make an objective place out of it. Forcing NPMR experience into the perceptual form factor of PMR, is the origin of most of the NPMR and afterlife descriptions you have read — they are not correct but do enable the experiencer to communicate his experience with other PMR residents who need the information put into a PMR spatial and objective context in order to comprehend it.
What have I observed? I have observed all four groups described above and have worked as part of the in-processing staff and as a special transition problems counselor for the first two — those need lots of staff. Like anywhere else, if you hang around and have useful abilities, someone will put you to work — (Everyone who can contribute is encouraged to contribute in a way that is helpful to both the individual and the system) also it is the best way to learn the way things work (from the inside)."
---

"Tom: Your concepts are fundamentally correct. The VR NPMR consciousness continues with its normal activities, but those normal activities are primarily acting as guides for self and others as ability dictates, helping with the process of transitioning and reorienting individuals going both ways, and constantly processing all experience from all realities for lessons learned -- there is little socializing because it does not produces much valuable direct experience. Everybody, who is able to do so reliably, contributes to the success of the whole according to their abilities. Think of an ant in an ant colony or a bee in the hive -- that should be refreshingly deflating.

It is not that you are an ignorant child while your over-soul is a brilliant enlightened entity. Your over-soul has a larger perspective than you do because it is not focused (trapped) in the PMR rule-set. But it does not necessarily have lower average entropy than you do (unless your consciousness quality has been degenerating while in PMR).

One does need a little reorienting to integrate ones perspective and focus from PMR to NPMR (with less reorienting required the more evolved the being). There is no traveling to reunite with your over-soul or separate places for different kinds of beings -- that's a PMR space-time concept that has no application in NPMR -- however such descriptions provide a vaguely understandable metaphor for those undergoing more lengthy transitions. As Ted says, one just re-integrates one's awareness or focus to the whole of you. It can be a little like coming home after being a mistreated prisoner of war for ten years -- you recognize home and remember it well but everything (your reality) is different now and you have to reintegrate slowly even though you have lived there all your life. At the lower level it is more like coming to a large dysfunctional halfway house where many families live before quickly signing up for another tour of duty. At the upper level it is like returning to your comfortable relaxing home early Friday afternoon after a hard week and looking forward to the weekend -- but knowing that you need to start preparing for the big deal coming up next month.

Upon regaining awareness in NPMR, one switches ones focus and perspective to NPMR time and it appears that time moves along normally even though it is processing much faster. You can teleport about and gather data almost instantaneously but your sense of time passing during interactions (communication with others) is about the same. When everything moves faster together, the relative sense of interactive processing has the appearance of being the same.

The first thing one (the newly oriented and integrated over-soul) does (a reasonably well developed one, anyway) is to review all the experience data generated from the just ended PMR experience packet in the context of all past experience packets to glean additional lessons learned, assess lessons failed, and roughly outline strategies to develop situations within the next packet to learn what is needed most. Lower entropy "outsiders" (i.e., guides) may be helping with this exercise by offering guidance and suggestions. Eventually plans are made and perhaps coordinated with others to provide a less random, more optimal, experience opportunity for the next packet."
---

Ramon: When the individuated unit that was your recent lifetime returns to the whole does it persist as an individual? Will my experience be as one of many personalities in a collective or is it fully absorbed and the only operational identity that of the higher self?

Tom: Mostly, individual personalities persist and are maintained -- particularly if they are effective learners. There is some advantage in building on what is already established and in maintaining a continuity of accumulating experience. However, sometimes if a particular individual personality is unproductive it will be retired (absorbed) and perhaps replaced with something more effective. However, that individual (as an very accurate statistical model -- i.e., an assemblage of all the information that defined that individual personality along with probability information) will still be present in the historical database and is fully accessible there - it's just that new data will not be generated or updated to that personality file. That "retired" individual personality could always be given a free will again and reconstituted as an active unit -- they are fully defined in the database. Bottom line: If you want maintain the privilege of exercising free will, it would be a good idea to exercise it effectively. Evolution can be a pretty ruthless (efficient) process.

- System Aspects
"It is my experience within the larger reality that generated MBT, not experience in the Astral plane. From that larger perspective, I have worked both sides of the death and NDE experience. I have been with the dying - helped ease their death process and after death, joined their journey, conversed with them and kept them company. I have worked the other side as well. Been assigned (it was a job) to help facilitate transitions - particularly troubled transitions. I have facilitated transitions where the individuals were sent back (NDEs). I read Newton's book of people reliving their death experiences through hypnotic regression only because Ted asked me to, and I've read Moody's books and talked to Moody about his research and results. I wish I had the text I sent to Ted explaining why these people (Newton's, and Moody's subjects) report what they do about the transition process, but in short, Roland is correct. The reports are primarily a reflection of the experiencer's beliefs and expectations, and of the system that feeds both to facilitate the process. There is a thread of truth running through much of what they report. However, how they interpret their experience is mostly an artifact of their beliefs, hopes, fears, and expectations which are exploited somewhat to produce a smoother more optimal transition. More like a bunch of three and four year olds reporting on their first trip to Disneyland."
---
[And now a more in-depth view of the inner workings:]

Tom: Yes, I bought both books a few weeks ago and have been reading Newton's "Journey's of Souls" I am a little more than half way through (Chapter 10). I am afraid that in-depth point by point comments would overwhelm the email format but here is a summary of a tentative assessment at this point (halfway through first book).

1) Most of the structure reported is an artifact of the habits of PMR experience. A result of the archetypes and the 3D modes of expression our thinking is trapped in -- a boundary/limitation of our ability to rationally communicate to other residents of PMR in terms of PMR. For most of us those are the only terms of reference we have. That is why souls visualize their trip as starting through a portal or tunnel; appear to glide around on "conveyor belts" or "tractor beams" taking them wherever that they are supposed to go. In a spaceless space, one does not have to travel to get somewhere. One simply teleports instantaneously. The tunnels and gliding around are all habitual 3D bullpucky -- as are the temples and classrooms, pods, and other "physical-like" structures and processes. Most everyone visualizes the same stuff because all are habituated to similar 3D PMR patterns of experience and thought. Thus PMR/3D archetypes (like portals to go through to change reality sets, and like having to travel to get somewhere) are held in common.

2) The part of the larger reality that Newton has a window to, via his subjects, is an unrepresentative infinitesimal sliver of the whole viewed through the cloudy lens of souls being manipulated through an educational reprocessing factory. Let me create an analogy that is a great understatement. Think of all of reality as our galaxy. Then a system that contains everything that Newton describes is a 20,000 square foot soul development & recycling factory located in the center of Huang Do province, China, on planet Earth. This factory refurbishes, rehabilitates, and upgrades the souls from Huang Do province only. The factory is run by a bunch of Chinese psychologists and shrinks. They have designed the factory and decorated the interior to improve productivity/reeducation. Color coding is used to help simplify communications to the somewhat dim inmates. E.g., top level souls are issued purple lab coats and lower level souls wear yellow lab coats. The inmates are initially given white jump suits with fleecy hoods. As in any factory, what goes on inside the factory is determined by the CEO and board of directors. Every province has its own factory and they are all laid out and decorated differently depending on what their CEOs and directors think is good for business. Like an insane asylum, the decorations and processes are designed to keep the inmates safe and profitably engaged. The inmates are lead to believe all sorts of things in order to help them adjust and become more productive. It is a fantasy factory. E.g., like the meeting of friends and loved ones after going through the tunnel is generally just a hallucination orchestrated to calm and focus new arrivals who have little experience. Fantasy Island delivers whatever you need to get your mind operating more productively. Hall of mirrors -- what you mostly experience is yourself reflected back to you. Yes, you are given help assessing completed experience packets, and yes you are sent to "classes," after a fashion, etc., but the context is your own fabrication or their suggestion -- whichever is most productive for you. What goes on inside the Huang Do plant, is not particularly relevant to what exists and is going on outside the plant, i.e. according to our analogy, elsewhere on planet earth, within the solar system, or within the galaxy.

I used to work at the Huang Do plant as a consultant -- and still get occasional assignments there. Most of the souls going through the factory don't have a clue as to what is really going on. Think of a ward of 3 to 6 year olds at the state children's home being interviewed by 60 minutes. (or more accurately, the 60 minutes crew from Mars)

Some errors: The so called fixed groupings that last forever are not that fixed. That is an imposed hallucination that helps inmates feel secure. The factory colors are like school colors -- arbitrary. Once a level is attained you don't get to keep it forever; you can back-slide, you can de-evolve, Your level is a reflection of your instantaneous quality, which can increase or decrease according to your free will
intents. The structure is not as rigid or bureaucratic as Newton describes it, but tends to look that way from the inmates perspective. Everyone does not have their personal guide. Many beginners often share a single or several guides, old hands often have more than one -- Whatever is most productive is implemented.

Now, after having said all that, let me say that I think Newton has done a great job! Although most of the structure has little to do with what is really going on in OS, much less the larger reality, most of the functionality he describes is reasonably accurate. He has done as well or better than could be expected given what he has had to work with. And I think he has done all of us a grand favor by helping others see a bigger picture -- one that describes the larger purpose, value, and driving force pretty accurately. To most of those in PMR, the details don't matter that much anyway. I would say that Newton's book (like your web site) is definitely part of the solution. Its incompleteness and simplicity is part of what makes it useful (like doing ballistic kinematics assuming a flat earth and no air friction or Coriolis forces). That it is technically incorrect is not significant given the audience. Three cheers for Newton!

You mentioned energy conservation as an issue. Primal Energy in NPMR is like air on earth. Finite sure, but Its there for the breathing -- there is no competition, every critter on earth takes in as much as they need/want/can use. Energy is simply intent modifying digits -- it does not depend on an outside source that imposes any practical usage/conservation limits on us.

I hope this helps you find a useful perspective of Newton's reality-view relative to Campbell's reality-view. I know Newton's work has been a central source of information for you. I hope this blurb provides more help than confusion and doesn't crack your foundation beyond easy repair. In the end, you must go where your intuition leads.

- Belief in God 'childish'..
That should be enough for today! I hope your mind is not too much blown away :-)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:08 am 
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That as I posted above is basically how Tom has described our situations upon returning and 'rejoining' our self within NPMR. As they say on TV after a special interruption, we rejoin the program already in progress. I was writing this as S_S posted above and I have not taken time to read all of Tom's posts again that he referenced. Hopefully I am including no mistakes here.

As far as meeting with loved ones as you remember them here, that will all depend for details upon what the actual and long term relationship is there in your continuous NPMR lives. Something that Michael Newton portrayed in his book was that as 'young souls' you have this special group of classmates with whom you reincarnate regularly and as you develop and mature, you perhaps start to move away from slightly to totally as you start to take on a role in the NPMR society as in a specialist job. Again Tom has explained that it is not really quite like that and that this is mostly PMR based subjectivity as those reporting this information are in fact incorporated here and subject to the PMR rule set as they give these reports.

Remember that we are all IUOCs taking on roles as to our relationships to each other. No matter how meaningful that those relationships here might seem and how much we would like to think that perhaps our favorite grandpa will always be there for us in something of that relationship, it is not necessarily so. You incorporate among and have strong relationships with those who you have previously had no contact what so ever within NPMR or a PMR past life. You can also incorporate with others as a plan but this is not really the most common situation. Remember that part of this whole operation is reducing entropy and as Tom puts it, moving towards love. Your lessons will be centered around that, not necessarily in terms of developing special and long term relationships with a close knit NPMR group that always sticks together. Part of your learning will be is that we are all part of AUM and all equally desirable to get to know and interact well together. Don't loose track of the fact that strange as it may seem to you now, you will eventually, if not immediately the next time, come back with a switched gender as part of your learning of your lessons.

That does not necessarily mean that you will not have as stated, continuing relationships with those who you know in NPMR and might have incarnated with here in PMR. Also simultaneously answering one of your other questions above, regarding meaningful contact with deceased relatives, I will share my own experience with my deceased sister in a general way. My sister had a bone cancer in her jaw or temple as a relatively young child. This made her ill a long time and took her away a lot as my parents sought treatment and I would stay with my grandparents. It remitted, but was not cured by radiation therapy which was new and only available in NY city at some big center at the time. This made my sister somewhat special and represented a subtle barrier in our continuing relationship. She later married but the cancer returned and she died at about 30 years old. As I cared for my mother in the latter stages of Alzheimer's, I made contact with my sister, the only other child of my parents, and asked her some 30 years after her death if there was anything that she could do in terms of helping me to deal with our mother's problems. She told me that no, she could not and it was my problem to deal with and had even no advice. She did however provide me with a string of images from our past life over a period of some time that while not completely forgotten, obviously had meanings and intents on her part that I had no clue about at the time. It related to ways that she wanted our relationship to go at that time and which it had not, largely as a result of the subtle barrier I referred to. Apparently she reminded me as an indication that she planned some time to be spent with me when I am 'back' in NPMR with these memories and my complete life relatively intact and explore some of the alternatives of the possible future data base along these paths not taken. When my mother contacted me after her death, let me know that all was well and thanked me for caring for her, my sister came with her.

I have already indicated on the board how my grandfather told me the night of my grandmother's death, he having died over a decade earlier, that he and my father's brother who also died decades earlier, would be escorting my grandmother 'home' that night. No, past relationships are not forgotten and dissolved. It is just that your perspective is so much different and what you do there in regards to those with whom you formerly associated is more on the manner of having both read the same book which was very important to you at the time and both learned special lessons from that sharing of the same book in the past. If you are in a position to help them with a transition, then you do so by assuming your former role relationship for a little play acting to provide needed comfort. So is my understanding.

There are many things that we can do within NPMR in terms of going into the data bases and explaining and clarifying past relationships and misunderstandings and exploring paths not taken. Remember that nothing is ever lost in the past nor because you diverted from the path which led to it in the future that thus did not happen. One of the available tools for learning within our NPMR experience is the exploration of these powerful options.

Ted


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:42 am 
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specialis_sapientia wrote:Tronar, when you realize you (what we normally identify with) are not an independent being to begin with, but just a specific expression of your consciousness which has agreed to abide by the PMR rule-set, one can be more detached to the prospect of "death" to the virtual 'character'. Tom has written some most excellent posts on PMR death and transitioning, they should be enlightening :)
Enjoy.
"Roland 2b: What have you observed regarding life between lives and NPMR locations?

Tom: You are asking me to write another book here.
Combine the experiences of a bunch of pre-schoolers: 1) responding to a fire drill and 2) experiencing Disneyland into a single experiential event. Now imagine the adults/employees whose responsibility it is to matriculate the children through the process. That will give you the setting for the vast majority. Now imagine the same thing for a group of 12 year olds — that That will give you the setting for the top 1 percent. Now imagine the same thing for a group of 16 year olds — that That will give you the setting for the top .01 percent. Now imagine the same thing for a group of unsophisticated not particularly knowledgeable 25 year olds — that That will give you the setting for the top .001 percent.
Reality outside of the PMRs is, for the most part, subjective. We tend, out of habit, to make an objective place out of it. Forcing NPMR experience into the perceptual form factor of PMR, is the origin of most of the NPMR and afterlife descriptions you have read — they are not correct but do enable the experiencer to communicate his experience with other PMR residents who need the information put into a PMR spatial and objective context in order to comprehend it.
That should be enough for today! I hope your mind is not too much blown away :-)
Wow, that was indeed a lot of good stuff. A part of the material I had already read before, but it was good to read it again and in context. I also got somewhat lost in the dungeons following your links to the full threads. That's why I am just answering right now. I was busy reading through this forum during the last days.

Your quotes and links helped big time. I think I have a somewhat better grasp now. Of course this lead to new questions, but that might also be an indicator for some level of comprehension of the content.

I re-quoted this particular part above, because I had wanted to ask the following question, when I had encountered Tom's explanation for the first time:

What exactly does he mean with the percentages? Like the group of 12 y/o being the top 1% and the 16 year olds being the top .01 % ?

Is he saying that the majority of people here in this PMR at the point of their death are comparable to the developmental stage of 4 year olds? And that's why most of the reports of the places humans have visited during an NDE are that distorted and far from how it really is?

Or is he saying that whenever you encounter an entity in NPMR, chances that this entity is also only developed like a 4 y/o (in comparison) are pretty high? And that your chances to "talk" to someone in NPMR that has a better understanding are like 0.01%? And that's why for example much of channeled material available in many books is not completely accurate and distorted?

Again, thanks for your help.

Tronar

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:50 am 
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Ted Vollers wrote: I have already indicated on the board how my grandfather told me the night of my grandmother's death, he having died over a decade earlier, that he and my father's brother who also died decades earlier, would be escorting my grandmother 'home' that night. No, past relationships are not forgotten and dissolved. It is just that your perspective is so much different and what you do there in regards to those with whom you formerly associated is more on the manner of having both read the same book which was very important to you at the time and both learned special lessons from that sharing of the same book in the past. If you are in a position to help them with a transition, then you do so by assuming your former role relationship for a little play acting to provide needed comfort. So is my understanding.

There are many things that we can do within NPMR in terms of going into the data bases and explaining and clarifying past relationships and misunderstandings and exploring paths not taken. Remember that nothing is ever lost in the past nor because you diverted from the path which led to it in the future that thus did not happen. One of the available tools for learning within our NPMR experience is the exploration of these powerful options.
Ted
Thank you for sharing, Ted.
I am sorry to hear about the relationship between you and your sister being impaired by those circumstances. I hope you can really catch up in the future.

And thank you for trying so strongly to provide "solace" for my somewhat shattered picture of re-uniting with loved ones in NPMR.

So please don't take this the wrong way, but your report about your grandfather and your father's brother escorting your grandmother left me with the question of how you could be sure, that this were really the free-will powered entities of your grandfather and uncle you and your grandmother experienced and not just some TBC representations revived from the database to smooth the transition of your grandmother?

Sorry, but I was already trying to be always open-minded sceptical before I read MBT. :-)

Tronar

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:56 am 
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Tronar,

I does not matter. It likely was not my grandfather and uncle but a representation from the data base. It might have been those who took those parts, out of their concern for she who took the part of my grandmother as her latter life was difficult with a lot of pain. I am pretty sure that it was the being who took the part of my sister and not a representation from the data base. The system would not be interested in any unfinished business. It would have been up to me to do that exploration. As it is, being instigated elsewhere than myself, I can see it as only the being that played the role of my sister as the only other one who would care.

Ted


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Tronar wrote: I re-quoted this particular part above, because I had wanted to ask the following question, when I had encountered Tom's explanation for the first time:

What exactly does he mean with the percentages? Like the group of 12 y/o being the top 1% and the 16 year olds being the top .01 % ?

Is he saying that the majority of people here in this PMR at the point of their death are comparable to the developmental stage of 4 year olds? And that's why most of the reports of the places humans have visited during an NDE are that distorted and far from how it really is?

Or is he saying that whenever you encounter an entity in NPMR, chances that this entity is also only developed like a 4 y/o (in comparison) are pretty high? And that your chances to "talk" to someone in NPMR that has a better understanding are like 0.01%? And that's why for example much of channeled material available in many books is not completely accurate and distorted?
Yes to the first. Also yes to the second, while it was not what he explicitly meant. NPMR beings are no more knowledgeable than us, so now that you have read or are reading MBT, you probably know much more about the fundamentals of reality than the average NPMR (or PMR) being. Though, I wouldn't say that beings who tend to channel information are exactly average.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:58 am 
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Ted Vollers wrote:I does not matter. It likely was not my grandfather and uncle but a representation from the data base. It might have been those who took those parts, out of their concern for she who took the part of my grandmother as her latter life was difficult with a lot of pain. I am pretty sure that it was the being who took the part of my sister and not a representation from the data base. The system would not be interested in any unfinished business. It would have been up to me to do that exploration. As it is, being instigated elsewhere than myself, I can see it as only the being that played the role of my sister as the only other one who would care.
Ted
Emotionally it would matter to me, if it is the real person or just a representation. But you are right, in the big picture it most likely doesn't matter at all.
Your reason about your sister being represented by her own IUOC (or FWAU in that case?) also resonates strongly with me. My gut feeling tells me you are probably right with your assessment.

Thank you both, Ted and specialis_sapientia, for your fast answers and turning my questions into another informative thread.

Tronar

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:32 pm 
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I didn't want to start a new thread to ask this question because my question relates directly to the topic here "the IUOC in relation to the individual self". I haven't read through all the comments on this thread but I though I'd just pin it here anyway, I don't know if this has already been addressed. Here it goes:

From the standpoint of your IUOC how does your development here relate to its development. I have yet to find a direct answer to this question here on this forum or in My Big Toe, which I still haven't finished reading yet or Tom's lectures or interviews. I do vaguely recall Tom explaining what you get to keep in terms of QoC from past experience packets as you begin with a new one. He said all the intellectual stuff goes but you get to keep what you gained at "the being level", I'm not sure what that means. I know what QoC means to me now but how does my QoC here relate to the QoC of my IUoC? I'm not clear on this.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:59 am 
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Advaita,

You really need to try to read through and understand Tom's model of reality as detailed on the Wiki. http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/index.php/In ... _MBT_Model Judging by the lack of feedback, hardly anyone makes it all the way through and has a full understanding. It would be clear from that model what the answer to your question is. It has been explained before here on the BB. I will outline it for you here. We exist in Consciousness Space as digital minds or IUOCs. As IUOCs, we participate in Virtual Realities of two types. Our base reality is not really this one but is of the Non Physical Matter Reality (NPMR) type where we have a continuing existence. Periodically, we participate as you are here and now in a Physical Matter Reality type VR. This is done as time sharing like on a computer where some common code periodically processes a different stream of data, producing a different result. Our digital code as an IUOC/mind/consciousness time shares between at least 2 or 3 data streams. Primarily it functions as a part of AUM where we all as IUOCs are AUM. A small part of the time, our code as an IUOC participates in an NPMR type VR. In an even smaller part of the total time available as 'ticks' of the CS 'clock' which means state changes of the system as a cellular automaton, our IUOC participates in this PMR VR. In between these extremely short state changes of the CS, we don't have a defined experience. It is just that these times are so short, shorter than PMR science can detect, that they appear to blend into a continuity. We have limitations placed on our experience here in PMR as the rule set of PMR. There are different limitations placed on our experience in NPMR. What we gain as QoC here in PMR thus affects our IUOC as digital code. Since it is the same digital code as used as our IUOC uses in NPMR, we keep any gains made for our NPMR experience. Since we also use our same IUOC code as we function as some infinitesimally small part of AUM, AUM is also improved by an infinitesimally small part as our entropy is reduced.

Does this answer your question?

Ted


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:37 pm 
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edit.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:05 am 
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Advaita,

Intelligence is not part of this equation as part of QoC. Intelligence is a matter of quantity, not quality. One can be quite intelligent and devote that intelligence to bad ends. We are a digital mind as our IUOC. We, like everything, came out of randomness by slow development. The LCS literally came out of the Void of mysticism and metaphysical experience which contains no meanings and pure randomness of data. It is inherent to the nature of our reality as the LCS that, as Tom says, there is a tendency to evolve towards more useful constructs, more useful data, more permanently existing data within what can be viewed as a vast cellular automaton. This is the same evolutionary principle that is looked on as being the reason that in the PMR VR it is said to evolve from random atoms and simple chemicals that create complex chemicals that can combine further and create single celled organisms and start the long climb towards life and higher animals.

We, like everything, have a lot of this original randomness within our selves as IUOCs. Code that does nothing useful and data that means nothing or is erroneous. I personally believe that neural networks as developed in artificial intelligence systems are likely to be a good model of what our IUOC code is likely to be like, just as they were developed based upon a rough model of our observed brain neurology. A simulation but having some characteristics of the reality of our IUOC nature as a digital mind. Neural networks must be trained. They are not programmed except as their initial configuration. They are gradually adjusted by this training to function at a better level, to possess a better way of controlling whatever process they are connected to. Our IUOCs go through a similar training program, particularly intense when we are 'here' periodically as participants in PMR as opposed to our much less intense continuation within NPMR. This is that kind of training based upon our interactions as IUOCs and the feedback that provides the means of correcting our data and clearing our code and the purpose of that training is to gradually develop and exhibit a higher QoC. To reduce the entropy within this digital code and data that is our selves as IUOCs as a measure of disorder, random data and code instead of useful, functional data and code.

Tom uses the analogy of a kindergarten for our PMR society. You have all of these kindergartners running with scissors and refusing to share their toys. No you can't have the purple crayon for your picture. That is my favorite and I am using it in my picture. My daddy is bigger and stronger than your daddy and can whip your daddy's ass. My daddy has a great big car, bigger than yours and newer and more expensive. My daddy and mommy are smarter than your mommies and daddies and they talk about it all the time. You are just a (take your pick of derogatory terms) while we are (take your pick of laudatory terms) and you should just go back to where you came from and stop messing up our otherwise perfect country. All you poor/disabled/foreign/incompetent/etc. people are useless and a drag on society, just out for what you can get for free out of my tax money. You should all be deported back to where ever you came from. You know the drill. Surely you grew up hearing some of it.

The idea is more that at the being level instead of at just an intellectual level you understand the same nature of all as IUOCs, including the animals. Intelligence and species relate to decision space but not to our ability to necessarily make higher quality of consciousness based decisions within that space. At a higher QoC, your 'neural net' code has been purged of prejudices and false learnings about others based upon superficial externals versus internal realities as IUOCs. There but for the grace of (chance PMR genetics and inheritance of wealth) go I, to paraphrase. Research noted here in the BB shows that animals can display altruism and care for others. As Tom says, we move towards love. Not in the sense that English uses as the primary meaning of "I want to hang around with you, have sex, children and grow old together or at least until I get tired of you". Love in all of the senses that all languages and cultures have included in the many words in the same spectrum. Agape as opposed to eros in short.

Does this answer those questions for you? Your saying that you were aware of most of what is in the description of the model but still did not understand this tells me that there are improvements possible in the write up of that model. Without rewriting and including MBT, can you give me some ideas about what should be expanded or reworded to convey this meaning? Not necessarily here but perhaps in a PM or e-mail. I wrote that and while I have discussed my understanding extensively with Tom and he has surely at least looked at it by now, he has taken/had no time to correct anything if he did find things to correct. I would not only like it to be an accurate description in more clear and concise terms than as spread out through the books, I would like it to be understandable as implying such things as are stated here without having to add all of this material to it. To be inherent to the explanation. It was a step by step process of writing it out and when you know something, it is not always and necessarily clear that you state it unclearly as your mind automatically fills in blanks so you don't notice deficits.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:09 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:47 pm 
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There is also a need to go beyond where ever we were as we developed during our last PMR session. A part of our lives is just spent catching up to that level so that we can go beyond it. It is the going beyond that is the gain. It is the quality of our interactions with others that is the driving force, paying attention to feedback to point out where we are off course. It is not just a matter of how we think we are doing but what the feedback tells us about the quality of our interactions. Are we interacting in a way that improves the free will and QoC of others? It is a slow process while many think that I'm learning a lot so I must be advancing and lowering my entropy. So much we pick up as we are young and growing up must be gotten rid of. It's not like some religious concepts of say tithing to the church or giving to others. It is more a matter of giving of yourself than of your possessions. If others find themselves better for having interacted with you, then you are probably doing it right. What does the feedback tell you as you go along your path of your life?

Ted


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