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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:03 pm 
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Please do a search using twcjr for Tom. He has answered this several times.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:55 pm 
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And if you study further, it would be clear to you that this is a metaphorical understanding of just looking at the PMR VR side of the whole of the LCS. Something is removed from here in PMR and taken off somewhere not understood for the value of 'someone' there. What is really meant as what is going on, in Tom Campbell's terms, is that the QOC increase and entropy reduction which is produced here in this VR is valued in and by the IUOCs and AUM who are actually represented by the avatars in PMR of the IUOCs who produce this increase in value. It is simply a limited point of view, a partial understanding of the nature of the LCS and VRs and the IUOCs who experience themselves in the VRs and also in Union as AUM.

The same thing was stated in another metaphor by Carlos Castaneda in his book, The Eagles Gift, where the dying humans on earth were seen symbolically as rising up and passing through an aperture into where the Eagle lived to be food for the Eagle. Some of their shaman seers had claimed to have seen the Eagle in their visions as a black massive creature with glints of fire and shiny reflections from the Eagles feathers. The Eagle was their interpretation of what they saw in their visions. Do you see the metaphorical equivalence of these two limited interpretations of what Tom Campbell models in full?

Don't necessarily expect this to be taken as a question to be answered by Tom as Sainbury, referring to Tom's earlier answers, and I have both answered it for you.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:30 pm 
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OK, now that I have a bit more time, and I'm not on my Nook, I can reply more fully.

Check out this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3563&p=8326&hilit=loosh#p8326


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:43 pm 
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I have a question:

In philosophy, there is a debate that has raged since the time of Socrates and Plato, and that is the debate over whether there exist basic absolute truths, which are true without reference to anything else, or whether everything is relative, and truths are only true in relation to something else.

I wonder how MBT approaches this question?

Often philosophers have pointed to "experience itself" as an example of an undoubtable, invariable, absolute truth. descartes' "I think, therefore i am" points to this.

Could it be that "the void exists" is an absolute truth? Or perhaps, "Information exists" is an absolute truth? Or is the philosophers conclusion, "experience exists" a good example of an absolute truth? (perhaps better termed, awareness, or consciousness)

Or would MBT suggest that indeed, there are no absolutes, everything is relative, and we must get comfortable with uncertainty?

Thanks,

- Chad


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:10 am 
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Ted and saindbury thanks for your reply, but my question is very specific, let me post it otherwise with a RS reality not metaphor. We know as a fact that the pmr of a bee is its hive, the hive apart from keeping the flora of earth alive through pollination it produces wax , pollen, propolis,honey and royal jelly aka loosh to sustain its winter entropia and have ενδελέχεια (έν + τελος enthelechia is the opposite process of entropia and it is translated as "to reach perfection") So the answer for bees loosh case goes like a) humans and bears are stealing bees wax,pollen,propolis,honey and rj producing thus entropia to bees for self nourishment candles and healing purposes and b) both bees and their loosh are keeping earth alive through pollination and humans milking their loosh.
So there is proof through simile that bob's ROTE is a valid PMR-NPMR FACT not a mere METAPHOR so I'm stating again the question for Tom to answer a) who is harvesting our loosh-honey and what is the purpose of it b)Is the Terran system an enthelechia one? Or just another Sisyphean loosh farm?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:03 am 
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stelarapas - You are not quite understanding, so let me start from the beginning. Bob Monroe had a lot of experiences. He still thought that reality was physical. And all his experiences in NPMR came back into his PMR understanding filtered through his fears, beliefs, expectations, experiences, etc. And The Monroe Institute is founded on his filtered experiences.

Tom, on the other hand, filtered his experiences through a scientist's view point. And Tom had guides for help. Tom repeated many experiences to see what was subjective, and what was fundamental.

Bob had no idea that reality is digital and probable. He never understood that the goal is to evolve the quality of one's consciousness. So a concept of evolving Love was presented to him, and he gave that idea the name loosh. He thought that something produced by the people of the physical planet earth was being harvested and taken somewhere, by some beings. Loosh is no more than the increasing quality of consciousness that helps the whole system evolve. It isn't some kind of honey being produced by a physical earth, and harvested by invisible space bears.

Bob just misunderstood the metaphor being presented to him. So your bee metaphor has no meaning. The bee does what it does largely through its hardwiring, and according to the ruleset. Bees have very little individual decision space, they have more of a hive mentality. But to use your analogy, the cooperation of all the bees to make the hive survive, and grow, is the loosh. It isn't harvestable.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:19 pm 
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Linda,

We might as well forget it and let him ask his dumb question as he will never be satisfied otherwise. He cannot tell the difference between metaphor, simile and fact. And he is not willing to pay attention in order to understand. Perhaps Tom will be willing to waste time on it and he can be satisfied when Tom tells him the same kinds of things that we are saying.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:10 am 
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Ted Vollers wrote:Linda,

We might as well forget it and let him ask his dumb question as he will never be satisfied otherwise. He cannot tell the difference between metaphor, simile and fact. And he is not willing to pay attention in order to understand. Perhaps Tom will be willing to waste time on it and he can be satisfied when Tom tells him the same kinds of things that we are saying.

Ted
A bity jaded we are there aren't we mate?

Your answers were never meant to be solely for the asker. They are going all over the Reality Wide Web, mate. They are really tangible in the context of MBT. You are an appointed/self-elected representative of MBT. This is what MBT constituents get from their official.

Frame it mate. Real gold right there.



You know what your input was?



I feel the same way Ted. I'm tired too.

I'm tired of the "tired attitude" most of all.

Take it personally, I meant it. Personally to you and myself, and everything else. Tom is retiring too.

Let's all retire.

It's a Brave Old World anyways. I'm sure we will do so much better in the next experience package.

That's why we should be tasting the pudding every day, not at the end of life. Just my suggestion to the "big cheese" and LCS. Life is sure short in the context of a dying man, and it is "short" in the context of LCS but it is damn long in the context of a middle aged man.

BTW, here is my question:

How can human life be "short" from IUOC perspective, if their clocks are running so much faster? What is a second for us, is eternity for them. It makes no sense to place a FWAU in such a long-time-game. This is a huge inefficiency.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:10 am 
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Some people get as long and carefully detailed an answer as possible while some get a rap on the side of the head as seems appropriate.

Keep in mind that our perception of the passage of time really has nothing to do with the length of a delta t in the VR where we are experiencing. We do not get messages as IUOCs that represent a full concept, just a fragment in any given message. Remember the discussions of the Planck constant and the minimum delta t in PMR. Our IUOC is a digital computer/mind. It is time sharing between many functions working/time sharing between being a neuron in the Mind of AUM and between being a netted computer in The Big Computer when there is not any perception involved in what function our IUOC is performing or of time passage. Then between an even smaller time increment for NPMR in the experience of our NPMR avatar in the VR of NPMR and the largest time increment perceived which is related to a Plank increment of time and thus to us fantastically short and beyond our real comprehension as a PMR avatar.

Our IUOC does not get either bored or tired of experience in any of the milieus between which it incessantly bounces by this time sharing. It has no self perception of itself any more than the computer on your desk, except when it is providing the mind of an avatar in a VR. That can only be an experience by an avatar with a 'history' and perceptions of a VR added in. And I am not really tired of saying the same kinds of things over and over either if they are real and sincere questions for the avatar asking the question. That is what I am 'programmed' for. If the questioner really needs the rap on the noggin or the hand slap by the teacher's ruler, then that is what they get too. If they don't wake up and pay attention in class, then that is their loss, not mine. Making the judgement as what to deliver is part of my own programming as an INFJ's iNtuition and the actual process of making that decision is not conscious to me as the avatar.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:00 am 
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I have to admit that it can be a bit frustrating when newbies come here and aren't satisfied with any response except one from Tom. And ditto when the question has been ask and answered numerous times. But, nooooo they still want it answered by Tom. Usually these questions aren't picked for the Chat videos anyway.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:51 pm 
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This question may sound a bit ridiculous, but I can't help to wonder what Tom thinks about Solipsism.

Solipsism is the idea that YOU are the only consciousness that exists.
A silly thought? Maybe. Though I't cannot be dismissed.

The reason this question is interesting to me, is that I wonder how you combine , "nudging of the LCS" and free will.

For example:

Tonight I was betting money on, that a particular football player would score.
I was focusing my intent on him scoring, together with my friends. And he scored.
A fluke? Must probably.
But my thought is. If I was able to "nudge" this system to make him score for me. What happened to HIS free will?

If you say we can nudge the system. It cannot include other consciousness beings or other you end up with solipsism. Right?

Ans besides, what would be most efficient for the system? To run one person or millions?


I'm very curious to hear a reply on this.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:32 pm 
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What you really need is an understanding of Tom's model of reality. Otherwise there is no short and understandable answer to give you. Study Tom's model in this link to the shortest answer to give you understanding: http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/The_MBT_Model_Link_Page Basically your post is too full of misunderstandings to address them individually with the limited state of your total understanding.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:51 pm 
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Here is a thread that discusses solipsism:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4910&hilit=Solipsism

Ted in a previous post:
MBT neither embraces nor leads to solipsism. It encourages engagement with the world, not isolation from it. It is our interactions with others and their intensity that produces the value of incarnating here in terms of the purposes of the Larger Consciousness System of which we as IUOCs are a part. But you have free will and your path is your own to choose within each lifetime and even to not incarnate.
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8260&p=72776&hilit ... ism#p72776

And:

It isn't just 'you' against nothingness. You must get clear on who 'you' are. You are an integral part of AUM, but that does not make you AUM. You are the self that you perceive here and now in PMR, but that is not the real you as it is not all of you. There is also the 'you' in NPMR which has as much right to think of itself as the real you as you do.

So the real you is the combination of your participation in the Union of all IUOCs that is AUM with the you perception continuously existing in NPMR and the you perception that exists as an avatar, ch79, here in PMR. And every other one of the billions and trillions of IUOCs that make up AUM are also individuals just like you who have these same aspects to their own existence.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9630&p=87925&hilit=Solipsism#p87925


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Do specific lessons that need learning run in consecutive lives ?
It would seem logical for a IOUC to concentrate on a certain fear or further developing a part of itself over consecutive PMR lifetimes from different perspectives until that fear is abolished or lesson learned at the Being level.
I've heard Tom say his last few lifetimes were preparing him for writing MBT so they must have had similar settings at FWAU level.

_________________
Call it tough Love


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:08 pm 
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Tom has not said anything specific about how he was prepared for this project in this incarnation in the lifetimes previous to this. It was not necessarily that he was himself prepared as in that he placed the right information into the PMR VR which was necessary for this to be built on and taken as the next step of development. He has not provided and is unlikely to provide any details.

I think that what you are prepared for in each lesson as a life is not set up in advance as a whole series of lives. Rather each new plan depends upon the relative success of the last lifetime. And those who are very early in their sequence of incarnations, the real beginners, do not really have plans in advance as they just need experience and one form is as good as another if you are really new at incarnating. This is what Tom has said in general in the past and agrees with my own understanding.

Ted


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