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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:26 pm 
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sharma wrote:Do specific lessons that need learning run in consecutive lives ?
It would seem logical for a IOUC to concentrate on a certain fear or further developing a part of itself over consecutive PMR lifetimes from different perspectives until that fear is abolished or lesson learned at the Being level.
I've heard Tom say his last few lifetimes were preparing him for writing MBT so they must have had similar settings at FWAU level.
I'm quite sure that he was dealing with a multitude of issues along the way to present day, last of which seemed to be patience in traffic. Alas:

It is possible that his IUOC had deep yearning for showing the larger picture to the rest of unaware FWAUs in the PMR, but he wasn't quite cut out for it yet, so it took a few more incarnations to get himself ready (just like you right now, feeling something great on the brink but not yet aware of what it exactly is, and how it will manifest). He likely had lessons to learn, and trials to do before being sure to not take a shot at MBT preemptively.

We did have a preemptive shot at explaining the Larger Picture as the Theory of Everything in the form of Christianity, Buddhism and Vedanism but they fall short in the hundreds of years it took for us to get here in the present day. So here's an opportunity to take a new look.

MBT could very well be just another preemptive strike at TOE, but so far it is the best one for the left-brainers who have taken over the world. As is right, finally we have a semblance of meritocracy taking the helm of progress as opposed to mere power-hunger and greed. We have our own apostles too: Keith, Donna, Ted, Sainbury etc. they;re all full of flaws and their own understanding, and none of them would be fit to "rule the world", Even the LCS washes its hands of this. It's our game, individually - expressing in the collective.

Let's wait a few hundred years, and see if MBT becomes the new religion, or if we get a better model along the way. What is the lowest common denominator is determinant of the quality of life and research that we take on collectively.... so... grow up, and help your neighbors grow up - we might see a better world in the next two generations, or we might see the reverse. The west is at the forefront of the push forward so far (it has allowed MBT to come forth and wasn't squashed like a bug thanks to freedom of speech and freedom of religion if need be), but it is so painfully ridden with many cancers that it is hard to tell what Tom will bring in his next life, he might be deemed a heretic, or he might be the next Tom the Campbell, or he might appear in another world altogether. Same applies to the present and the past. What matters is that you are the next Tom in the making, and so am I and so is Ted, and so is Keith, Donna, Sainbury and your neighbors. One day all of us will be incarnating with the basic tenets of MBT ingrained in us, with new things on the horizon and with challenges we fail to even comprehend right now.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Fear(s) are not fundamental and neither are ego(s). I also don't believe either are in any rule sets. Is this true or not?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:38 pm 
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Great thread... lots of really good answers here as well as in the actual Fireside Chats.

Question:

--------------------

Tom,

You often mention that courage is the antidote to fear. When faced with a fear, one should confront it. You also often mention letting things go and being comfortable with whatever happens.

When facing fears that require initiative (say, jumping out of a plane or talking to a stranger) how should one balance these two ideas? In my experience, forcing the courageous action is often so difficult that it undermines any sort of letting go or balance. Yet the alternative seems to lack courage.

In general, should one intentionally confront fear (sometimes at the cost of equanimity) or focus more on maintaining balance and ease, and try to let fears slowly unravel?

-----------------------

I'm aware that versions of this question have been discussed -- I've listened to all the Fireside Chats. Just looking for more specifics.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:37 am 
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Spry wrote:Great thread... lots of really good answers here as well as in the actual Fireside Chats.

Question:

--------------------

Tom,

You often mention that courage is the antidote to fear. When faced with a fear, one should confront it. You also often mention letting things go and being comfortable with whatever happens.

When facing fears that require initiative (say, jumping out of a plane or talking to a stranger) how should one balance these two ideas? In my experience, forcing the courageous action is often so difficult that it undermines any sort of letting go or balance. Yet the alternative seems to lack courage.

In general, should one intentionally confront fear (sometimes at the cost of equanimity) or focus more on maintaining balance and ease, and try to let fears slowly unravel?

-----------------------

I'm aware that versions of this question have been discussed -- I've listened to all the Fireside Chats. Just looking for more specifics.
Hey Mate, here's my 3 cents:

There's no contradiction - its a simple order of operation -

You shove the fear aside (take courage) and make a choice/take action THEN you let go, deal gracefully with uncertainty, and accept the consequences / whatever happens, happens - that's "taste the pudding" stage - you receive feedback and use to make a better choice next time you can/ have to. Rinse and repeat.

You can also make the choice of not taking an action, and then you will keep getting feedback on lost opportunities, "what ifs", possibly reliefs and regrets. You may have enough wisdom to know when not to act, but if you have a strong inkling that you should be courageous - that is likely a nudge to be authentic and just do, just be and taste the pudding later. Inaction is also a choice, and the rules are the same. Cowardice will reward you with feedback, and then you will also have to deal gracefully with whatever happened. It's your life, your TOE, your feedback, and your choices.

If you feel unable to draw conclusions from your experiences, and just feel lost, it may be an indicator that you should take the back seat for a while and just observe and learn from other people's experiences - not that you shouldn't do it all the time anyway. We're all here in clear view of each other.

Also, please note, shoving the fear aside MAY have dire consequences (that depends on the circumstances and company you're in) - I don't know, I'm a pretty reserved person and still am testing this MBT premise, I have a lot of ego issues that I work on, this past year I've been out of my comfort zone for quite a bit, and never took it to an extreme - so don't treat my word as some sort of mentorship. I have no idea if spitting in the face of fear at all times works - I see a lot of people growing up, and not by giving up, but by rejecting the path of conflict. Not all fights are created equal, some are quite absurd. Don't presume that your presumptions are correct. All I know is that there is a lot of leniency, and life finds a way to make it work, and sometimes it finds a way to make it to a dead end.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:55 am 
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HJK_V01 wrote:
Spry wrote:Great thread... lots of really good answers here as well as in the actual Fireside Chats.


Hey Mate, here's my 3 cents:

There's no contradiction - its a simple order of operation -

You shove the fear aside (take courage) and make a choice/take action THEN you let go, deal gracefully with uncertainty, and accept the consequences / whatever happens, happens - that's "taste the pudding" stage - you receive feedback and use to make a better choice next time you can/ have to. Rinse and repeat.

You can also make the choice of not taking an action, and then you will keep getting feedback on lost opportunities, "what ifs", possibly reliefs and regrets. You may have enough wisdom to know when not to act, but if you have a strong inkling that you should be courageous - that is likely a nudge to be authentic and just do, just be and taste the pudding later. Inaction is also a choice, and the rules are the same. Cowardice will reward you with feedback, and then you will also have to deal gracefully with whatever happened. It's your life, your TOE, your feedback, and your choices.

If you feel unable to draw conclusions from your experiences, and just feel lost, it may be an indicator that you should take the back seat for a while and just observe and learn from other people's experiences - not that you shouldn't do it all the time anyway. We're all here in clear view of each other.

Also, please note, shoving the fear aside MAY have dire consequences (that depends on the circumstances and company you're in) - I don't know, I'm a pretty reserved person and still am testing this MBT premise, I have a lot of ego issues that I work on, this past year I've been out of my comfort zone for quite a bit, and never took it to an extreme - so don't treat my word as some sort of mentorship. I have no idea if spitting in the face of fear at all times works - I see a lot of people growing up, and not by giving up, but by rejecting the path of conflict. Not all fights are created equal, some are quite absurd. Don't presume that your presumptions are correct. All I know is that there is a lot of leniency, and life finds a way to make it work, and sometimes it finds a way to make it to a dead end.
Thanks, great post.

Sounds like we're in a similar boat -- these are all things I think about.

I think the crux of the question for me is this: which (fear) battles are worth fighting?

It seems there are situations in which one could just keep smashing against the proverbial wall with courage while never really uncovering why the fear is there in the first place. An example might be career success; one might have trouble with work ethic due to fear of success or fear of rejection, but pushing and pushing against these feelings is probably not the right solution.

On the flip side, it would be easy to convince oneself that the solution is always simply to let go and attempt to be less attached to outcomes. That could be the right decision is some cases, but could also be used as a clever excuse to avoid facing one's fear.

Fear and ego can be quite subtle and tricky :)

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:13 am 
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A lot of fear can be conquered if you don't try and control things and just roll with whatever happens.

"Learn to live gracefully with uncertainty."


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:35 pm 
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Spry wrote: Thanks, great post.

Sounds like we're in a similar boat -- these are all things I think about.

I think the crux of the question for me is this: which (fear) battles are worth fighting?

It seems there are situations in which one could just keep smashing against the proverbial wall with courage while never really uncovering why the fear is there in the first place. An example might be career success; one might have trouble with work ethic due to fear of success or fear of rejection, but pushing and pushing against these feelings is probably not the right solution.

On the flip side, it would be easy to convince oneself that the solution is always simply to let go and attempt to be less attached to outcomes. That could be the right decision is some cases, but could also be used as a clever excuse to avoid facing one's fear.

Fear and ego can be quite subtle and tricky :)

Thanks again!
I'm glad I wasn't totally out of my depth - and for our dear moderators - Ted and Sainbury if I am wrong in regards to MBT, please correct me - I'm still learning the technicalities, and can mix some things up.

As far as chosing the right fear to combat - in the recent YouTube videos Tom started to take a new approach (watch the recent fireside chats from the last 3 months (Aug, Sept. Oct.) in highlighting a good route to finding out what the fear is. I still need to hear that tactic a few times myself to make sure I get it comprehensively, but it revolves around the fact that we (and our ego) comes up with a convoluted story to cover up the fear.

For example, a fear of inadequacy/not being good enough to love can lead to a self defense mechanism - for example laziness (that becomes the story - Oh, people don't like me because i'm lazy) - so we create a lazy persona, and chose lazy behavior, become lazy, to cover up the fact that we really are just afraid of confronting the fear of being unloved or inadequate. The third hypocrisy in this chain is blaming others for perceiving us as lazy. "Oh, I'm not lazy at all, but everybody thinks I am, so it's their problem".

Same applies to obesity - some people are just afraid of loving themselves or loving others - so their ego devises a defense mechanism to make that happen - "let's get unattractive" - Then you really have a "reason" to dislike yourself, and have others dislike you. Then you can add in the hypocrisy and deny any responsibility for the defense mechanism and say that you can't love people, because they don't like you, and they don't like you, because you're obese. Nonsense. Tom says, find that causal chain, work on that fear of inadequacy, love yourself, and then the defense mechanism of obesity can drop, you no longer have the excuse to not love yourself, yo no longer have the excuse to not love other people, and what other people think of you, is just their own egos anyway. - in this sequence of events, it doesn't even matter if you shed the weight if you still don't love yourself - you will either get the yo-yo effect and gain it back, or another symptom/defense mechanism will pop up to cover the fear from being exposed to you.

Very convoluted, but I think true. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

It gets harder when you just have a symptom to work with, and have to work your way back to the original fear - but that is the foundation of the symptoms. Then there is the PMR ruleset and randomness that can easily throw off a semblance of a peaceful and tranquil life - but ultimately any experience package is all about being challenging (otherwise it's just like watching a movie) - you don't reduce the entropy by just being, doesn't matter if you're happy or not (happiness is an intrinsic value in and of itself, the ultimate reward) - challenge is the thing that drives change in entropy. It can be a pleasant challenge, or an awful one. I pray for the tranquil and peaceful one, but that's perhaps just my ego talking - I am terribly afraid of suffering both for myself and others, and don't even know how to make that not be an apprehensive phenomenon - helping hands here?

I do have a fear of suffering, I'd like some advice on helping me overcome that - or is it a legitimate, fundamental fear that is part of the ruleset, and better be left there? ; ) (just like I said that happiness is an intrinsic value in and of itself, suffering is an intrinsic anti-value in and of itself. Or is it not? There are people who claim that suffering and martydom is sacred, purifying, and of all things can lead to happiness - which is it?)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:19 am 
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About the Solipsism:

I'm not sure you understod what I was talking about.
However, I got the answer to my question in a fireside-chat.
Thanks anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:40 am 
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challenge is the thing that drives change in entropy. It can be a pleasant challenge, or an awful one. I pray for the tranquil and peaceful one, but that's perhaps just my ego talking - I am terribly afraid of suffering both for myself and others, and don't even know how to make that not be an apprehensive phenomenon
This fear comes from trying to control things that you cannot. If you truly take to heart Tom's saying, "Learn to live gracefully with uncertainty" it will help you with this. Be OK with whatever happens, and deal with it the best way you can.

Suffering is a choice from your ego. You feel sorry for yourself. Life is about change. If you learn and grow through the changes, then there is little to no suffering. You just appreciate things as they happen.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:05 pm 
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@HJK -

Things are likely a lot easier when you're actually aware of your underlying fears, but that rarely seems to be the case.

Tom mentions several ways to discover your deeper fears.

One would be to pay attention to your intents moment by moment. Negative intents are usually rooted in fear of some sort. For example, my parents both hold mystical beliefs that I consider to be misguided. When they mention them, I'm usually tempted to retort and "be right". Yet it's obviously far more important for me to listen, be kind and accepting and improve the relationship between us. Catching my motivating over and over is a good way for me to realize that I have an underlying fear that provokes me to want to be right, rather than take the more skillful alternative.

The other would be to pay attention to your ego by paying attention to when something makes you angry, stressed, frustrated, etc. For example, last night a friend of mine who is a very outspoken feminist insisted on having an argument with me over text. I tried to be supportive and avoid it, but eventually gave in (bad idea). To be fair to myself, I tried very hard to be calm, kind and supportive and she was extremely antagonistic towards me. But I notice that it REALLY affected me afterwards; I'm still pretty upset by it. I assume the reason for that is that I have some kind of fear/ego thing going on here as well.

I think that those two methods can be really helpful. Figuring out what to do about these things when you find them (the right combination of courage and acceptance) is still quite difficult.

:)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:40 am 
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Could I ask Tom this please.

A person can get data from the probablistic future data base with intent, but its stays probable due to free will, IUOC's use free will and can alter what is probable to happen in the future.

Does this mean things that are not effected by free will can be predicted well into the future like say the weather or is everything here in this PMR effected by our intent whether we realise it or not ?

This also got me thinking if the media was constantly pushing a certain idea about climate and enough IUOC's believed what the media was saying, could the collection of IUOC's actually influence the climate by believing what the media is telling them ?


John


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:56 am 
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Could I ask Tom this please.

As I was driving home from work the other day in the dark, I was thinking about MBT.

I was driving down the road and was just thinking about how i was interpreting the data, the vibration and road feel coming through the car, headlights whizzing past, tail lights in the dark, the heat from the heaters blowing on my face, my dash lit up, feeling the seat through my legs backside and back, my foot pressing the pedal slightly etc etc loads of data I was getting and making total sense of it all.

I thought at that time what would an IUOC make of this data if it was suddenly plunged into my avatar and it had never experienced data or experienced a reality like this before, It would be overwhelmed probably and have no idea what data it was recieving.

It would have no idea what a car was, what lights were, what the feeling of warmth was on there face, maybe they have never experinced heat or cold even. It would be utter confusion.

My question is Tom have you ever visited another reality frame where you could not make any sense of the data ?

John


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:23 am 
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Could I ask Tom this please.


Can an IUOC become love by being told the goal is to become love. Is that IUOC then using intellect rather that being ?
It thinks it must do loving things rather than wanting to do loving things.

I will use a totally made up scenario to explain.... lets say a Godly figure, lets say jesus, suddenly appeared on earth.
He goes on tv shows, he is in the media there is no doubt to any single person on earth that this guy is the real deal.
His message is simple this is a VR training programme you are here to evolve, the goal is love, get rid of fear and belief you will have as many life times as needed to evolve, in a flash jesus is gone.

mankind has the message it knows why we are here.

Would this lower the entropy of our collective consciousness as a whole in this PMR ? even though the world may become a better place as people are now kind and helpfull, its mostly being done by intellect rather than being isnt it ?

Does a IUOC only evolve to love by its own inner wisdom, it feels its about other rather than knowing its about other ?

John


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:37 am 
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Could I ask Tom this please.

I took my elderly mother to hospital last week to get her eye cataracts seen to by her her doctor.

As I was sat in the waiting room the elderly woman to my right had a pamphlet, its was on a condition called Charles Bonnet syndrome.

In short its a condition where people that are partially or fully blind get hallucinations, they can see patterns, animals all sorts of things.
Charles Bonnet Synrome somehow alters constraints of the avatar obviously they can no longer receive data via their eyes, but it seems that they then get additional data in the form of hallucinations.

How could hallucinations help an IUOC evolve ? what would be the purpose ?


John


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:30 am 
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The are getting data that they are interpreting. It isn't that pink elephants are being sent in a data stream to them. It is, rather, that they are interpreting the data that way.


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