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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:52 pm 
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I think we have ego at a time of our birth. It can be very small in the beginning and grow with a time, when we start to be influenced by outside world, creating our beliefs, building a thicker wall between us and NPMR.

Lena

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:25 pm 
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So actively preventing the growth of ego would be a useful behavior parents could employ, and then, of course, how is asked, although all sorts of answers pop into my head just thinking about how. Carefully control the belief systems presented to the little ego while at the same time presenting truth to allow that to be the belief system built. That's the Freudian ego's job, bty, to allow pleasure while at the same time preventing pain. Parents as ego cops, it really seems a good way of preventing a thick crust from forming.
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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:26 pm 
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To All,

I cannot answer for Tom in any sense on this one. I see ego to a certain extent as being like the word love, overloaded with competing meanings for a single English word and translated to boot from a special meaning as established by Freud. As a Latin word, it simply meant I, my self. It has come to mean different things in current psychiatry than in Freud's original usage. I believe Bette posted something about this.

As I look at it, it means self concept in our usage as someone perceives themselves to be here in PMR. Thus it is tinged with Illusion to start with. One thinks of themselves as perhaps white, middle class, member of some kind of religion, having a certain level of intelligence, holding to some particular moral code, possessing a certain social status, etc. But instead, I would say that race is an illusion among illusions, class is meaningless, religion is a security blanket, your intelligence on the big picture scale is irrelevant, your moral code is illusion and Intent is what matters, social status is also an illusion among illusions, etc. and all subject to near instantaneous change as the VR changes with political elections, economic crashes and the chances of the PMR system. Ego applies to anything that is not real. This PMR VR is as real as any PMR VR but they are all virtual realities and thus Illusion in the big picture.

As I see it, we are all individuated consciousnesses amongst the trillions existing in the RWW/Indra's Net and simultaneously an integral part of The One Consciousness. This is not subject to instantaneous change and Illusion. This is the real of the real. This is the One Thing that exists and you are individually integral parts of it. It is the thing that mystics, or shamans or metaphysicians who mentally explore, etc. have contacted for centuries and all cultures. You do periodically participate in excursions to PMR where you are again subject to Illusion and the necessity to climb the ladder again and to NPMR where you serve continuously as you are best able. To realize the Illusion of the previous paragraph and the reality of this one is to be egoless. It is also to be without fear. All to the degree that these are internalized and part of one's true understanding rather than intellectual concepts only.

I have never had a strong sense of ego, who and what I was in terms of this reality. I have always seemed to see through the self concepts of others as illusion. And thus I had no strong fixation on what I was myself. Very confusing as a child, and from then on for that matter, to not believe what everyone around you seemed to believe. What you see is not what you get!

I hope that this is of some use to you.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:23 pm 
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I think that our ego is a luggage, which we care from our previous incarnations. This luggage is our fear, self delusion, beliefs, etc. and all of it should be discarded, sooner is better. Some of us, as Ted, have very small ego or none at all, and it never had a chance to grow. Some of us, as me, have it very big and it was growing all my life, until several years ago. All of us are at the different stages of our development, but all of us have a chance to reduce our entropy. How much, how fast, how successfully would depend on our intent and willingness to do this work.

Lena

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Last edited by Lena on Wed May 27, 2009 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:35 pm 
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Quote:
So actively preventing the growth of ego would be a useful behavior parents could employ, and then, of course, how is asked, although all sorts of answers pop into my head just thinking about how.
We should ask Tom how he and Pamella were raising their children, and what part of success was their parental effort. I think parents should not have a big ego (or no ego at all) in a first place to understand how to provide such environment for their children. It will be a task for a next century, or may be for this century - to teach parents a new egoless parental approach.

(each time I read my post, I can find more spelling mistakes)

Lena

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Last edited by Lena on Wed May 27, 2009 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:43 pm 
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From my understanding home schooling was used, and Tom and Pamela (Tom for sure) asked their daughter what she wanted her name to be before she was born. I would think from just having that bit of info plus the entire Tom package known to some degree by us here, their kids and Tom's older son had clear upbringing as far as extraneous belief system gathering goes. That's my opinion of a possible actual event. ;)
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Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 10:52 am 
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OM: DO I have a proper understanding of this?

Tom: No, not exactly.

When an individuated unit of consciousness (IUOC) comes into the world, it comes in with all the advantages and limitations (grace, balance, fear, ego, etc) at the being level that are inherent to that IUOC (that represent the level of consciousness evolution or entropy reduction thus far achieved by the IUOC). Its PMR-associated-brain-recorded intellectual existence in PMR is constrained to its experiences and interactions (both mental and physical) with the PMR outside world while it was in the womb. At the being level it knows/is much; at the intellectual level, it is self-aware but knows little (its knowledge is more general than specific). It has little capacity to communicate except telepathically at the being (feeling/emotive) level. If the IUOC is sufficiently evolved, it is, at the being level, aware of its transition, of its being born into physical form, of starting a new experience packet, and of the steep physical learning curve that lies ahead. As the intellect (PMR experience base) gains traction on the physical world, awareness at the being level recedes into the background. Furthermore, much of what the IUOC comes in with (advantages and limitations) is imprinted into (represented within) the genetics of the infant. That is, far from being a blank slate, the newborn comes in with a reasonably well defined framework for its PMR personality already in place. Experience builds whatever structure it does on that frame and can modify and extend the frame by changing the being (positive or negative growth).

The surrounding culture, parents and other variables etc. influence the personality, they do not create it. The degree to which they influence it is generally overestimated.

OM: "So getting rid of Ego means kind of getting rid of personality or lessening personality."

Tom: Only if your personality is primarily an expression of ego. Personality and ego are not the same thing. An evolved being with little ego is not an emotionally blank zombie with no personality. In fact, it is just the opposite. For example, it would be a good guess that Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and Mother Teresa all carried around significantly less ego than most of their fellow PMR residents, yet all had exceptionally strong personalities. Lowering personal entropy leads to raising personal power. Love, rather than fear and ego, makes a strong, solid foundation for personality to form around.

Tom C


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 6:31 pm 
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lena,

I, of course, think my kids (all adults now: 39, 24, 23, 22) are all wonderful beings. They have grown up magnificently and I am pleased at what each of them have made of themselves. However, that is my perspective of them -- the result. What would be more interesting is their perspective of what it was like growing up in our family -- it was, no doubt, different that what most children experience. Maybe, one day, one of them will provide that insight.

The best advice I can give to any parent is to get your own head straight first, then just act natural. Again, it is not so much a matter of what to do as it is a matter of what to be. Without fear, ego, needs, and expectations (since the love and caring for the child is usually a given), you cannot help but be an optimally effective parent. (It is parental ego and fear that creates most of the poor parenting -- not lack of knowledge or information.) You cannot control the environment (culture) they grow up in for very long, so you must help them develop the inner strength and values they need to successfully deal with it and learn from it. Then you must let them go forth and learn in their own way and own time.

Tom C


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 8:15 pm 
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Quote:
Then you must let them go forth and learn in their own way and own time.Tom C
Thank you, Tom. I couldn't agree more on that.

Lena

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 10:22 pm 
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so you must help them develop the inner strength and values they need to successfully deal with it and learn from it.
Oops, I could have used this info 20 years ago. I have 2 I've raised poorly in that way, one that is having a hard time separating from me because of my poor parenting, and one that I can't imagine being separated from and lucky for me I don't have to. Thing is what about him when I'm gone, her too as far as being dependant on me, unsure of herself, because I protected her from life too much. I tell her I raised her like she had autism too because that was the best I could do, basically she might as well have been raised by wolves.

I've got a new big idea. You have people with physical disabilities and friend them up with people with developmental disabilities in living situations, gated communities eventually especially built disabled and energy efficient. I picture circle shaped neighborhood pods, eventually connected with other pods with open area in the middle, sidewalk all the way around so the walker always goes back past where they started, and separate houses with private backyards; gardens, playgrounds, and parks all in the middle common area. The roommate matching is done by abilities, talents, and personalities with the bigger the pool of possible friends the better. The business, Friendships Unlimiting, Inc. is what I will start to start this into reality as private people do not gain attention from the powers that be in PMR world. That will help my boy eventually, and other's. I've been talking this idea up for a month or so now locally in my grant writing seminar I'm in now, and around town. I really wish I could have another go at helping my daughter understand her worth and abilities, while I am still here rather than a forced situation. All I keep thinking was she knew what she was getting into picking me for a mom, so she must be stronger than she thinks.
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Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:46 pm 
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OM: DO I have a proper understanding of this?

Tom: No, not exactly.
When an individuated unit of consciousness (IUOC) comes into the world, it comes in with all the advantages and limitations (grace, balance, fear, ego, etc) at the being level that are inherent to that IUOC (that represent the level of consciousness evolution or entropy reduction thus far achieved by the IUOC). Its PMR-associated-brain-recorded intellectual existence in PMR is constrained to its experiences and interactions (both mental and physical) with the PMR outside world while it was in the womb. At the being level it knows/is much; at the intellectual level, it is self-aware but knows little (its knowledge is more general than specific). It has little capacity to communicate except telepathically at the being (feeling/emotive) level. If the IUOC is sufficiently evolved, it is, at the being level, aware of its transition, of its being born into physical form, of starting a new experience packet, and of the steep physical learning curve that lies ahead. As the intellect (PMR experience base) gains traction on the physical world, awareness at the being level recedes into the background. Furthermore, much of what the IUOC comes in with (advantages and limitations) is imprinted into (represented within) the genetics of the infant. That is, far from being a blank slate, the newborn comes in with a reasonably well defined framework for its PMR personality already in place. Experience builds whatever structure it does on that frame and can modify and extend the frame by changing the being (positive or negative growth).

The surrounding culture, parents and other variables etc. influence the personality, they do not create it. The degree to which they influence it is generally overestimated.



Tom,

So, we come into this world with the culmination of all our profitability, successes, failures, the entire experience packet to this point in our IUOC's Consciousness evolution. So whatever Ego, Fear, love ect that we have developed for the 100's if not thousands of lives is here now. We can grow and evolve or devolve this level depending on our decision space and our being.
How these limitations, abilities etc play out with all the variables and random occurrences available is part of the process to see how my being will act/end up in the end of this packet given the scenario before it. Will I level up or not.



OM: "So getting rid of Ego means kind of getting rid of personality or lessening personality."

Tom: Only if your personality is primarily an expression of ego. Personality and ego are not the same thing. An evolved being with little ego is not an emotionally blank zombie with no personality. In fact, it is just the opposite. For example, it would be a good guess that Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, and Mother Teresa all carried around significantly less ego than most of their fellow PMR residents, yet all had exceptionally strong personalities. Lowering personal entropy leads to raising personal power. Love, rather than fear and ego, makes a strong, solid foundation for personality to form around.


OM: How does one know if their personality is primarity an expression of Ego?
"Strong Personality" that sounds like someone with an Ego.
Maybe Mahatma Gandhi had a fun personality and obviously a strong Will.
I understand it can be taken more than one way but usually a person with a strong personality would have a lot of Ego. Maybe a person with a strong will can be ego-less. IS this just a play on words. Help me out here.

OM


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:38 pm 
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It is easier to be selfish than to be selfless as long as ego causes the arrow of intents direction to be pointing in, imo. Ease would then no longer be an issue when ego causes (allows) the ego directed actions to naturally point outward. Personality seems more involved with how we get on with others, our personal style of communicating and interacting (or not), again, imo.
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Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:20 pm 
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OM,

Just semantics. I meant strong in the sense that an egoless personality has the strength or power to move things -- to affect people, to inspire, to motivate, to accomplish the extremely difficult, the seemingly impossible. A personality that others gravitate to and wish to follow - a natural leader.

We just have different interpretations of the words "personality" and "strong".

Language has its personal and shared components like everything else. Nothing is completely objective - there is no objective reality because we are consciousness and consciousness is personal and thus subjective. Communication is always a struggle.

Tom C


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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:38 am 
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Tom C has a strong personality.
Love
Bette

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 Post subject: Re: Retrievals
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:02 pm 
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Hey there Tom,

I wanted to ask you about something of Seth's that I came across today regarding ego and chemicals. I'm sure that the definition of 'ego' Seth is operating within is different than how you're defining it, but nonetheless, Seth's ideas on this is interesting, because I have personally had an experience like this, and I wanted to get your feedback on this:
Quote:
In therapy using massive doses of LSD, a condition of chemically enforced insanity takes place. By insanity, I mean a situation in which the conscious mind is forced into a state of powerlessness. There is a literal assault made not only upon the psyche, but upon the organizational framework that makes it possible for you to exist rationally in the world that you know. The ego, of course, cannot be annihilated in physical life. Kill one and another will, and must, emerge from the inner self which is its source.
This is interesting enough, but one more:
Quote:
Under LSD you are highly suggestible. If you are told that the ego must die then you will kill it. You will telepathically follow the ideas of your guide under even the best of conditions. (Long pause.) The psychic "rebirth" may leave you with a completely new set of problems, rising on the bed of the old and as yet undecipherable.

The new ego is quite aware of the conditions of its birth. It knows it was born out of the death of its predecessor, and for all its feelings of transcendent joy, natural enough at its birth, it fears that annihilation from which it sprang.
Though I've never had a "massive dose" of LSD by ANY means (tried a very, very small amount, and threw it up), I did experience what I feel now was something similar to this when I expiremented with magic mushrooms... Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated, or any interpretations that come to mind.

Thanks,

Cole

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