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 Post subject: How long does 00be last?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:57 pm 
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Hey all, I'm a newbie here and still working on my first projection.
I was wondering if you have any tips on how to stay there once you get there.
I know im getting close, and I wonder how long it will last ?
It makes me wonder if there is a technique , or circumstances that can help prolong the experiences!
Boy it sure would be nice to spend 8 hours up there , or the whole nights sleep out and about!
Is this some thing you can control? Perhaps develop the more you practice ? I would hate for them to be a fragile as lucid dreams are!
Thanks for the info, I'm
still working on vibrations, more good news to come!!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:17 pm 
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Perhaps develop the more you practice ?
This is the way that it works. And remember that we are talking decades, not weeks. And there are more important things than hopping around OOB. But follow your own path.

Ted


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:27 pm 
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Jedi al wrote:I was wondering if you have any tips on how to stay there once you get there.
I know im getting close, and I wonder how long it will last ?
It makes me wonder if there is a technique , or circumstances that can help prolong the experiences!
There is a "book of tools" called "The Phase" written by Michael Raduga. I caution however, beware of esoteric literature. As Tom says, be open minded but skeptical. Do not allow ANY literature, including this post, to form a foundation of your belief system. Let personal experience be your guide. If it "feels" like it works, then it shall with intent.

I have used some of the techniques or tools presented in that book and I have found them helpful, however even Michael iterates the point that INTENT is the key ingredient. There is NO escape from that fact.

While entering the Vibrational state I have found these to be the most effective tools for separation (data stream shift)

1) Forced divergent gaze like looking at an auto-stereogram whilst simultaneously IGNORING any hypnagogic visualisations
2) Mentally "Tensing up" of the phantom body shell-like sensations the vibrations produce, as though they were a non-physical muscle
3) Telling yourself in your mind "Just let it happen, just go with it..." repeat it like a mantra during the vibrations. This forms the intent.
4) Try not to critically analyse the sensations or process. Doing so reverses the shift back into PMR by focusing intent on the physical body. (for me at least but everyone is different)
5) For initial separations, tell yourself firmly "No fear!". Say it with absolute conviction.

I have emerged within a flaming dark black mass on two occasions, and that declaration instantly abated it and allowed me freedom of movement within NPMR.

Again, they are only tools. I've experiences NPMR transitions so rapid that they were seamless with no effort required whatsoever. It must also be understood, that OOBE or NPMR entry may be expedited if the potential for entropy reduction exists. If there is nothing to be learned by performing OOBE, or if the intent is purely of entertainment value, then it will be a very long and protracted process.

Edit:
My impressions are that duration of the experience is a function of its entropy reduction and learning value as well as the "fear escape clause" where fear simply forces you out. It is impossible to measure time within NPMR, however I have a habit of performing a reality check by looking at my bedside clock as soon as I return to PMR. All my log entries are marked with my return time. The longest I have personally experienced in "perceived" time within NPMR is about 10 minutes at which point I have either simply woken up to vibrations, or lost self awareness and become absorbed in a dream.

Recently I have experienced a spike in Borderline states (see my other posts) as well as OOBE simply by focusing positive intent towards my friends throughout the day, whom I know need some form of support.

Again, the key is intent.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:34 pm 
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Martin_AU wrote:My impressions are that duration of the experience is a function of its entropy reduction and learning value...
This morning's log entry 24/7/16 6:37am:

I again looked at my left arm to confirm my self awareness. I could see my skin and the hairs of my arm.

I looked down (from height - flying) and there were people walking around. I descended, touched down and approached a woman. She seemed to be in her mid 50's with a slightly parched, pale face. She was wearing a black coat, with a black and white hair wrap. I asked her "Why am I here?". She seemed shocked and recoiled slightly as though I were some random vagrant who had approached her. She said nothing as she walked away.

I then saw a small boy, perhaps 10 years old. He was watching me. I approached him.

I asked him "Why am I here?"
He responded "Where were you?" (past tense inferred)
I replied "In reality with my wife. But this, is not my reality"
He responded "You need to understand where you are..."
I replied "If I am ready to learn, then please teach me"

We began to walk and I put my arm around him as I would a friend. I then began to feel a "return signal" at the back of my neck. It felt like a tingling sensation which rapidly grew in strength.

I emerged in my bed to feel my wife pulling the covers of the bed slightly and they had rubbed against the back of my neck.


End excerpt

Conclusion:
There have been occasions I have been simply ejected due to a lack of full self awareness. As far as my other posts on this forum are concerned, this experience had EXPLICIT correlations. The intent in this experience was inherently self improvement. I was ejected due to a return signal, however this was one of my longest experiences.

This, as part of my own "truth", confirms to me the necessity of positive intent for the prolonging of the experience, however each must follow their own path.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:22 am 
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Jedi al wrote:Hey all, I'm a newbie here and still working on my first projection. I was wondering if you have any tips on how to stay there once you get there. I know im getting close, and I wonder how long it will last ? It makes me wonder if there is a technique , or circumstances that can help prolong the experiences! Boy it sure would be nice to spend 8 hours up there , or the whole nights sleep out and about! Is this some thing you can control? Perhaps develop the more you practice ? I would hate for them to be a fragile as lucid dreams are! Thanks for the info, I'm
still working on vibrations, more good news to come!!
Hi, and welcome to the forum. Here is a good post from Tom that may clear some things up for you.

Lucid dreams and OOBE approach leaving PMR from different awareness's and perspectives. Because of that difference people who have little operational control tend, by default, to remain tied to the spaces through which they enter the out-of-PMR experience --- i.e., lucid dreams (entered from a dream state) are more dreamlike and OOBE (entered fully conscious) is more awake like. However it is only habit and belief that ties someone to the spaces through which they enter the out-of-PMR experience. Once free of PMR, your focus and intent (and, of course, your ego, fears, expectations, needs, and beliefs -- if you happen to have any of those things :-)) are solely in charge of what happens next.

The difference between OOBE and exploring the larger reality is only belief and intent. What is generally thought of as the OOBE reality frame is a subset of the larger reality just like PMR is a subset of the larger reality.

All explorations beyond PMR are attained by focusing your intent to realize or accept data from data-streams that are different from the PMR data-stream.

The OOBE is limited Because of limiting beliefs and limitations of individual imagination and understanding.

One's intent must seek out the data bounded by a specific rule-set that describes a particular reality frame.

Because your consciousness can only follow your intent, exploring the larger reality is something like being in the greatest of great libraries, where you must tell the librarians what you want and they bring it to you, and not realizing that this great library could possibly contain anything other than romance novels because that is the only type of book you have ever seen or heard about. The only picture that many individuals have of the larger reality is from reading about the personal, and thus limited interpretations of data others have experienced and then translated into PMR sense data according to the best pattern match they could find in their own database of PMR experience. Believing these interpretations to be facts rather than symbols and metaphors limited by their own experience, they share their experiences of OOBE, or dreaming, or lucid dreaming -- or perhaps religious experiences or drug experiences as accurate descriptions of the larger reality. All of these sources together are probably no more inclusive of the larger reality than romance novels are of all books. The actual larger reality exists to us only as information/data (what we have been calling virtual reality) and is not limited in any way by some confused observers ability to pattern match it to their PMR experience-base.

To get to a reality frame that you have never heard of you must:
1) be sent/led/taken by someone who does know.
2) Have contact with someone who has been there or knows of it -- or knows someone who knows of it.
In other words you must link through another's consciousness.

This is normal enough. I and others use this process all the time. For example, if your friend Joe tells you that he knows somebody that needs your healing help. Any time later, if you want to go to that person you simply direct your intent to "that person Joe told me about" while remembering the instance of Joe telling you. That provides a unique address to that person since there is only one specific person on the planet that Joe was referring to when he said that to you. You don't need pictures, addresses, names, or a lock of hair - the link through Joe's consciousness is sufficient whether or not Joe is still alive in PMR - it's all in the database (which is what you are really using anyway).

However, the point is, if you do not understand the nature of reality and think NPR is just a funky PMR (standard belief and assumption) you go about exploring NPMR like you would go about exploring Central Park, or the Grand Canyon. You believe everything in NPMR must be continuous and contiguous because in PMR space and reality seem continuous and contiguous and your limited understanding cannot imagine that it could be any other way. That belief limits you to your back yard - or in a different analogy, to romance novels. To leave the OOBE reality you need to take a discontinuous jump to another frame just like you had to make a discontinuous jump from the PMR frame to the OOBE frame (even though your awareness is continuous throughout the jump). You might say that you have to go out of your out of body body, but that terminology just confuses the issue even more - it's about consciousness, not bodies. You can make the jump directly from PMR to any other frame for which you have access to a unique address.

It is really simpler than it sounds - much easier to do than it is to explain. I hope I have answered your question and not just confused you.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2907&p=5514&hilit= ... +PMR#p5514


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:56 am 
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Hi All,

New development in my personal journey and progress in prolonging OOBE/NPMR experiences.

29/4/17 - 06:33

On two occasions during this OOBE, I felt the Vibration State returning. In my case, this is always a precursor to an imminent expulsion to PMR. After over 1.5 years of learning I made another breakthrough.
  • Keep emotions in check at all times
  • Interact with the NPMR environment as much as possible, using perceived physical sensations. That is, get as MUCH feedback from the NPMR data stream as possible.
The moment any return sensations are perceived such as fading of vision, audio distortion, tingling, vibration or dulled perceived "physical" sensations are encountered within NPMR, immediately stop and focus on calming down. Be still and focus on relaxation and passivity.

Using that technique, I successfully extended my experience on two occasions within the one experience where the Vibration State began to reveal itself.

Sincerely,

~Martin

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:06 am 
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You seem to be really making progress!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Thanks Linda,

It goes without question that these experiences, augmented by Tom's works, have completely changed my perception of reality.

Lately, I've been having these encounters every two in three days (on average). Every 2 days I'll have at least one borderline state and a guaranteed data stream shift at least every 3 days. Whenever I have a borderline state, I have a 63% chance of capitalising on it and turning it into a full data stream shift based on the last 30 days of log data.

Another one this morning which again confirmed the idea of "Hooking onto" the new data stream...

Log except 01/05/17 - 04:15am

I was in a dream. I was standing in the front music room facing the front door. I turned around towards the kitchen and I thought "This is a dream". I immediately felt the VS come on and everything went pitch black. I relaxed, passivated myself mentally and "sank within myself" (there is no other way to describe it), the VS intensified. It appeared to plateau and I thought "Separate". I felt a floating movement and found myself standing in the music room again facing the kitchen doorway. I raised my arms in front of my face. I turned quickly and grabbed the leather straps of my powder horns and pulled them off the wall in order to examine them and intensify the perceived physical sensations. I also stood still and told myself "Calm down, relax..." I carried the leather straps with me, manipulating them continuously as I moved through NPMR in order to maintain constant NPMR feedback.

The VS reduced significantly to a gentle constant tingling, however did not disappear for the duration of the experience.


End Excerpt

Sincerely,

~Martin

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:31 pm 
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Martin,

congrats on the new break thrus and also for a deeper understanding on NPMR + the data shifts your experiencing..

It is must appreciated you share so many of your OOBE experiences with both myself and the forums...

I have 1 quickie Q-

If you know , what exactly suddenly brings on the VS when your in the middle of an OOBE ?

It almost sounds like something you would prefer to avoid , assuming you want to perpetuate the OOB experiences you are encountering ...

Thanks, Brian


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Thanks Brian,
Brian50 wrote: It is must appreciated you share so many of your OOBE experiences with both myself and the forums...
Just trying to relay aspects of NPMR exploration that I've found have worked through correlated data. The only intent is to make it easier and to inform others. Yes, it is all subjective, but such are my personal training wheels. As long as there is potential for them to help others too...

There are several things I've found brought on the Vibration State during and before an OOBE, however based on my data and experiences, I have a view on what I "think" the Vibration state actually is. What I personally think the Vibration State is, answers the questions as to when they happen, well for me at least.

  • The Vibration State is a marker indicating a disconnect from the PMR Avatar. It is like a turnoff road sign which you can either drive past and ignore, or you can take and enter/exit NPMR.

As to what causes it, this depends on whether you are trying induce it (Enter NPMR) or prevent it (stay within NPMR or PMR)
Correlates of Vibration State once in NPMR:
  • Fear
  • "Your time is simply up"
  • Lack of entropy reduction potential, pure entertainment value
  • Emotional excitation (My personal dominant expulsion mechanism)
  • Failing a lesson (I've had multiple concurrent OOBE's of the same situation repeated)
  • Some important interrupt or signalling from the PMR Avatar, a "return" signal

Correlates of Vibration State on induction:
  • Hynagogia
  • PMR Avatar Sleep Paralysis
  • Complete mental, perceived physical relaxation and passivity, though it may be very clear

Termination of the Vibration state on induction:
  • Mental excitement
  • Full mental arousal causing loss of mental relaxation (My dominant termination mechanism)
  • PMR movement
  • Intent to stay within PMR
  • Fear/Shock
  • Surprise

While it has been discussed elsewhere on the forum that the Vibration State may be caused by one's expectations, I personally am not convinced this is the case. All of my OOBE activity has been spontaneous and the Vibration State cannot be explained as an "expectation" for my very first spontaneous OOBE in September 2015 considering I had no prior knowledge of them to begin with.
Brian50 wrote: It almost sounds like something you would prefer to avoid , assuming you want to perpetuate the OOB experiences you are encountering ...
Sometimes, there is no choice to prolong them... On two occasions whilst determining how to control them once they had begun, I chose to simply lay within them for as long as I could. That was my sole objective, simply to remain within the vibrations and learn how to control them. They were stable and strong and my mental focus was explicitly on intensifying them. I lay within them for what felt like 15 seconds, only to be thrust into NPMR without any conscious thought of separation or exit.

Sincerely,

~Martin

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 5:02 am 
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Martin,

First thanks for taking the time to reply with such a thought provoking posting. As you know your willingness to post these kinda detailed replies given your current knowledge base and your experience with NPMR are of great value to the forum boards here at MBT..

Since I have had some limited experiences with the VS ( Vibrational state ) myself, although it has been quite some time since I have experienced it. i will try to give you my take on your well thought out comments..
The Vibration State is a marker indicating a disconnect from the PMR Avatar. It is like a turnoff road sign which you can either drive past and ignore, or you can take and enter/exit NPMR.
I agree here fully. They were definitely s "Sign - Post" that indicated an "exit" was available to me on that particular night, was how i saw the VS state .
As to what causes it, this depends on whether you are trying induce it (Enter NPMR) or prevent it (stay within NPMR or PMR)
For myself I had the VS occur far more in the "induction " phase, rather than the "return" phase.. But it surely did happen in the "return" phase as well is my recall .
While it has been discussed elsewhere on the forum that the Vibration State may be caused by one's expectations, I personally am not convinced this is the case. All of my OOBE activity has been spontaneous and the Vibration State cannot be explained as an "expectation" for my very first spontaneous OOBE in September 2015 considering I had no prior knowledge of them to begin with.
I was really thinking this one over :)
My conclusion is that in the early stages I did not have the knowledge of what they were. So they did seem to come on in more the fundamental sense , on there own . But as I learned more about them thru reading online, they became more something based i think on my expectations of them , and I used them as you describe in much of your posting as a "tool set" for OOBE inductions..

I will leave you with another question though :

I noticed you mentioned in here, that you feel at least some of your OOB experiences have been with the purpose of some kinda "lesson" for you.. This sounds similar to me to some of the content I have posted elsewhere on the forums about having " Dream Lessons".. Maybe you can find a more specific example from your OOBE Logs of this for us ?
When you have time of course, as I know how busy you are my friend !


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Hi Brian,
Brian50 wrote: I noticed you mentioned in here, that you feel at least some of your OOB experiences have been with the purpose of some kinda "lesson" for you.. This sounds similar to me to some of the content I have posted elsewhere on the forums about having " Dream Lessons".. Maybe you can find a more specific example from your OOBE Logs of this for us ?
I've been fairly quiet here recently. I've discovered a core lesson within the last 15 days. In those days, I've had 13 separations and they are becoming longer and longer in duration. The core lesson, that's taken me over a year to learn through NPMR, has been:

  • Keep your emotions in check, don't be reactive

While it may seem as a pretty mundane and patently obvious/clichéd conclusion, there is a completely different dimension to emotions within NPMR. Its a thought/emotionally/intent reactive environment. I realise now that every aspect of all my NPMR encounters have been controlled either deliberately or inadvertently by those three factors. The key is that these lessons are a reflection of the quality of my IUOC. I would not need to learn them, if I already knew them.

Learning to calm down, to simply accept things as they are, not feel threatened by unfamiliar situations and simply "be" within a particular situation is the theory of the lesson I have learned which I believe directly correlates with Tom's ideas on "Living gracefully with uncertainty"

My most recent threatening situation was this:

Full log entry 11/5/17 - 04:32am

I was falling asleep again though I don't recall any specific visualisations or techniques. The TS came on quickly followed by the VS. I smiled relaxedly to myself as I separated.

I next recall emerging in my bedroom and there was another entity there. I thought it was my Wife however it was taller and dark, this could have been due to the twilight nature of my emergence.

I began to move away and the entity moved and stood before me. It looked like Michael (Surname withheld) from High School. It blocked my path and became obstructive/oppressive. I raised my hand and shouted "Stop!". Its face darkened in a manner similar to Bilbo's from Lord of the Rings and I immediately grabbed it by the hair and violently pulled its face down into my knee.

I emerged instantly into PMR to vibrations.


End entry

Interpretation:
I categorically FAILED the lesson. To me, its quite obvious why. My response was a characteristic of my IUOC and these situations shall keep repeating themselves until the lesson is learned.

It was quite clear that I let my emotions take control of my reactions. This is a trait which manifested itself in the majority of my NPMR encounters, be they malevolent or benevolent and has always resulted in ejection. I have learned that NPMR exposure duration may be lengthened by simply calming down and not resisting/fighting the situation. Its just data, and my interpretation is whats causing me grief, not the data itself. The fact that my NPMR duration can be extended by calming down, clearly indicates that this is part of the lesson. The content itself was never of any importance.

This is also a lesson I must carry on into PMR and meditation, Music and raising my daughter have been instrumental in reining those emotions in. Its no longer about me and my ego. It never was.

Sincerely,

Martin

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Sounds like you got an old fashioned fear test. It isn't that you let your emotions make your decisions, it's that you reacted with fear. Not to worry, you just need practice. And it seems that you will get plenty of that. Just go with it and do the best you can to be fearless.


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:04 am 
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Martin,

My initial thoughts were that for me also it sounded quite "fear - test" oriented..

However also as you stated here;
Keep your emotions in check, don't be reactive
For myself personally, this would be an excellent lesson to "hit home " with. So that you have taken this to heart now, I would say is certainly taking you down a profitable path for you, sure...


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:10 pm 
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Hi Everyone,

New developments in my personal NPMR journey. These are of direct relevance to the duration of my experiences.

There's been a lot of introspection regarding what the Purpose of PMR/NPMR is. I realise Tom states that its for the purpose of Entropy reduction, however given my background, as a lowly human being even I know that all the LCS has to do is delete the concept of fear to immediately reduce entropy. It is a simplistic view however if fear is simply an attribute of the IUOC, then all the LCS has to do is delete that attribute to decrease total system entropy. The fact it has not done this, suggests to me that there is more than Entropy Reduction at work here.

Secondly, I've been trying to understand exactly what Tom defines as the "Being Level", specifically on how we ourselves can perceive it. I appreciate that on the forum here it is considered as the code-block that defines us as IUOC's and how efficient it is, however that is not something directly perceivable to our awareness.

So from that, I've been personally considering these two concepts which have both had significant impacts on the quality, quantity, induction and duration of my NPMR experiences.

1) The Purpose of PMR/NPMR being: "Become Love, through experiencing all that can be experienced".

This defines the necessity for fear as part of "all experience" and allows for an infinite range of experiences in an otherwise finite and resource constrained system.

2) The "Being Level" Tom refers to, as our "Empathetic Selves". (Intended as empathetic, as opposed to sympathetic)

This is an aspect of ourselves that is perceivable by our awareness, projectable onto others and receivable from others.

So 1) resolved a attribute reduction sticking point for me, and 2) directly affected my meditation inductions as well as communication and interaction within NPMR. Rather than bending my intent towards objects and entities within NPMR, I attempt to connect with them on an Empathetic level by trying to extend my perception to their perspective. The effect if this has been simply astonishing and has completely redefined my understanding of Communications within Consciousness space.

For a long time, I had been trying to converse verbally with entities within NMPR for the most part, only to receive incoherent, partial or nonsensical responses. I had attempted to "physically" interact within the NPMR frames based on PMR principles. Attempts at Empathetic perception/interaction have been simply extraordinary.

Sincerely

Martin

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