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 Post subject: Being level dangerous?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:30 am 
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I'm a bit confused about acting out of the being level. To show you what I mean, let me share an example:

Say when I get angry on a person and I feel like I should hit him, I would do that when I act from the being level. But when I use my intellect I would act differently. I would think it's a bad idea and it can get me into trouble. Of course I wouldn't hit him.

So is it "safe" to completely act from the being level? Can it get us into trouble if our being level has a lot of fears? Or would it be the point to always do what you feel and learn from it? And how do you learn from it that way? The next time probably the same will happen, until I "train" myself to be different.

That brings me to the "training". Using the example above: how do you "train" yourself to not make the same mistakes again? Can anyone describe what it looks like in a practical way from the above example? What should that person do? How can he influence how he feels? Etc. I know it are all choices, but it seems like you can only choose differently when you analyze it and intelligently make another choice. But that's not being...

Any advise on this would be great!

Thank you!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:54 am 
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Emotions are the gauge of where you are at at the Being level. If you feel like hitting someone out of anger then it is a fear rising from your being level but you can stop hitting someone from noticing this at the intellectual level as this is where you can act from. There is also an 'Intellectual' side of the being level that thinks with caring and love. You notice this when you think of doing good things for people and helping out and not about self.
To notice all your emotions and be the watcher of your every thought is a way to put an Intent to grow up as it unmasks the fearful ones you hide and gives you a way to stop and consciously feel how these play out in your day to day life. When you do this over and over eventually you understand what is fear and what is not and have intent to grow becomes easier.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:10 am 
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Basically Tom's 'interact and pay attention to the feedback' as the basis of PMR providing its designed function.

Ted


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:22 am 
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Thank you for your reply Sharma!

You kind of lost me in your answer. Intellectual side of the being level? Do you mean just shifting focus from 1 picture in your head to another picture in your head? When I think of giving and caring I feel good. When I think of hitting someone I feel bad. But that's true for every thought you have to put focus on. So I don't get a feel for it how this looks like in a practical way. It only makes it more confusing.

How is watching your emotions and thoughts an intent to grow up? And how do you stop a fearful one? I can only think of that with intelligence... Just force myself to stop or think something else.

Sorry for these questions, but I'm a bit more confused. May be you can explain via an example?

Thanks a lot!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:34 am 
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Quote:
Basically Tom's 'interact and pay attention to the feedback' as the basis of PMR providing its designed function.

Ted
I'm not sure how this replies to my question and example. Can you explain what you mean or where I can read about this exact subject?

Thank you!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:46 am 
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This was a comment on Sharma's post, not a direct response to you. Sorry for assuming that it would be clear in context as just after Sharma's post.

Ted


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:51 am 
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Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:35 am 
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Quote:
Say when I get angry on a person and I feel like I should hit him, I would do that when I act from the being level. But when I use my intellect I would act differently. I would think it's a bad idea and it can get me into trouble. Of course I wouldn't hit him. So is it "safe" to completely act from the being level? Using the example above: how do you "train" yourself to not make the same mistakes again? Thank you!
You cannot "train" yourself to be a better person. You either act like you are a good person, or you are a good person. It is all about learning from life's challenges, making choices with the right Intent, and paying attention to the feedback from people around you.

An angry person will not be calm and kind unless they can find, and conquer, their fears. Anger is about control. Things aren't going the way YOU want them to. So you try and force things to adapt to your will.

Here is a nice quote from Tom:
Sometimes. If "faking it" is part of a process leading to "making it", then there is value in it, often this is the case if the faking is only temporary -- but there is risk. If "faking it" never leads toward "making it", then there is negative value in it -- you will become cynical, self-righteous, and worse off than you were before you started faking it.

Of course faking it may make you less annoying to others, at least until cynical and self-righteous sets in -- but in the end it is a net loss.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3139&p=7113&hilit=faking#p7113


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:29 pm 
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Thank you for your reply Sainbury!

I understand what you are saying and of course I agree!
But I still don't understand what it looks like in a practical example.

When you act from the being level, you also act with fears sometimes. So expressing that, can cause troubles. Or do I simply not understand this?

And how do you learn from something when you get negative feelings or negative feedback from the people around? What does it look like? At what point is it "learning"? I can only imagine it's learning when you "know" and when you change accordingly. But therefore you need the intellect to analyze and to consciously make another choice to prevent a bad situation from happening again.

Let's say: if i hurt my toe (my big toe ;-) ), I feel pain. I remember I hit my toe on the table and I remember why I hit my toe. So the next time I can be cautious. I will tell a story in my head: "All right, look out! The last time you hit your toe!" But that's all intellectual. It's not like my behavior automatically changed. I have to pay attention.

Do you understand what I'm asking?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:38 pm 
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Tom says the intellect is a tool, it can be used for good (in service of others and/or personal growth) or bad (in service of fears/ego).

Since I have an extremely rational/western mindset, my method may or may not be right for you.

My goal in interactions is everybody wins / nobody loses.

Everybody includes me (as I grow it becomes more about others as my needs/desires disappear).

I use my intellect to analyze the situation to determine who wins/loses if I do, and who wins/loses if I don't (like a 4 quadrant graph). When the decision is not obvious, I factor in the severity of the wins/losses. Often a small loss for me results in a bigger win for someone else.

I make my choices based on reason, not emotion. Looking at the situation logically gives me the understanding of why thinking of others first is the right thing to do.

Given your example situation, I would use the following questions/answers
Q1. Who wins if I hit him
A1. Nobody wins. This is basically a revenge situation. Hitting him won't reduce my anger, and he will only learn why he shouldn't get caught, not why he shouldn't do it.

Q2. Who wins if I don't
A2. Nobody wins. Nothing has changed. (I actually do win due to learning/growth)

Q3. Who loses if I hit him
A3. I might lose by hurting my hand (or worse). He might lose by getting hurt. I will lose because I gave in to fear/ego. He will lose as he learns the wrong lesson.

Q4. Who loses if I don't
A4. Nobody loses. Nothing has changed.

The results of the process are 1 win if I don't hit him and 2-4 losses if I do (Q1=0, Q2=1, Q3=2-4, Q4=0). The answer is obvious, don't hit him.

Although this is a very simplified example of my process, It shows the general idea.

Sometimes It's About You, Sometimes It's About Me, But It's Always About Us

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:02 pm 
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Yes, it's definitely a logical process and it makes sense! But it's still all the intellect preventing from you not hitting him. At the being level you simply "act" the way you are. And if you have a messed up being level, you can act like a jerk. So the intellect is a protection shield for this? But does it help to grow and how so?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:07 pm 
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This is from a YouTube video that, unfortunately, no longer exists.

TOM:
There's another aspect that I'd like to separate and that is the intellectual level and the “being” level. The intellectual level is the level at which you think about things. The “being” level is the level in which you are. It’s at the level of “being.” For instance; if you see somebody ahead of you walking down the street and a twenty dollar bill drops out of their back pocket and lays on the sidewalk - and they just keep walking on because they're not aware of it. If you think about it, if you picked that twenty dollar bill up and you say, “Well what I should do, what an ethical person would do, would be give this back.” And I notice there's a bunch of people who are looking at me and saw me pick that up and,” I better give it back.” You see now that's an intellectual process because you came to the intellectual conclusion that this is what you should do you. You thought about it and figured that that was the best action. There's another reaction that as soon as you see it fall your immediate thought is, “Oh, that person lost something. I need to call them and help them recover that.” You don't think about what should I do, and why should I do it. And whether people are watching or not is all irrelevant. You just at the “being” level it's because you are honest and you are ethical - that there is no other possibility for your actions and they’re immediate without thinking about them. That is at the “being” level so that's kind of the difference - if you see what I mean.

So we talk about the intellectual level is the level of thought and for most people that's mostly the level of ego. And then we talk about the “being” level which is just how you are. Now that “being” level doesn't have to be ethics. It can be the lack of ethics. You can be a not very grown entity, not very high quality of consciousness. And at the “being” level you are very self-centered and you are perhaps rude, or you are angry and take advantage of people. And that's just the way you are the “being” level. So the “being” level just reflects the core of you. How you are at the core. It's the difference between acting and “being.” We can act nice or we can act angry. We can act all sorts of ways. But that's different than “being.”

We have these social requirements that we have to live up to. You know what is polite and what's impolite in our society. Different societies have different things of course. But when you grow up in such a society then there's ways of acting - things you're supposed to do. It's a culture thing. So if you step in front of somebody and you did it by accident you say, “Excuse me.” or, “Pardon me.” or, “I'm sorry.” We have these things to do. Well most of that is intellectual in the sense that you've learned to do it. It's a learned behavior. Are you really sorry? Do you do you really feel bad that you did that? Or is it just that when you do something that's rude you just automatically say, “I'm sorry,” and forget about it? You see? So one would be at the intellectual level, if it's just a habit and doesn't really mean anything to you at a deeper level, and the other would be at the “being” level. If you don't have to think about it but you just are sorry immediately that you happened to cut somebody off, or that you happen to butt in line because you didn't notice that the line was there - and there's a difference.

So, one is acting. One is in a lot of our social structure. We act, we play roles, and we play different roles. We’re a different role at home then we are at the office then we are when we're out with the guys or are out with the girls. So we play these different roles. Well that's not you at the “being” level. Now there may be pieces of you at the “being” level there in all those roles, but there’s also pieces of you that are acting - role-playing - doing what you think you should do or what you've learned that is right to do. So that's the difference between the “being” level and intellectual level. And the intellect is not necessarily all a bad thing you know. The intellect is a very necessary thing we need that logical processing but when it's attached to serving fear then it just gets in the way. It becomes part of the problem rather than part a solution. When the intellect is not connected to fear the intellect can be part of the part of the solution.


Questioner: Yeah, yeah, so is it critical then to separate the “being” level from the intellectual level?

Tom:
Well in a way we are just a whole thing. And at the being level some of it’s good and some of it’s not so good. At the intellectual that can be true too. It’s not so much that you have to keep those in separate things because you’re all one person. But you should be working on eliminating the fear, eliminating the belief, the ego the expectations. And when you're done, when you've eliminated that and there is no more fear, then what's left is love - caring and compassion. That's what you got left after you get rid of the fear. So it's the fear and ego that is really counterproductive to our growth. So it's not that you separate it and say, “here's the authentic me,” and, “here’s the fake me” and I’ll only be fake in these situations but I'll be authentic in this situation. That’s… I know, I guess people do that and maybe when they're being sincere that's good if that helps them do that. But basically that's not the point. That's just another kind of acting. You're acting authentic and you’re acting falsely or socially.

The thing is to be who you are. Just if you are who you are and you're honest and then you look at why it is you are that way. What are you doing? Why am I making these choices? Why am I feeling this way? And then if the answer is, well that’s ego responding to fear, then try to eliminate it. Try to go back to the source of the fear. Deal with the fear and eliminate it. So if you don't act how you are then you’ve eliminated one of the feedback systems that can be very helpful to you to grow up. Pretty soon you can get to the point that you believe that the person who’s acting is the real you and that that is the authentic you - the actor. Because you kind of lost touch with the inner self. A lot of people go through life like that where their authentic self is always buried so deep they don't even know who they are at that level. So just be yourself. Act the way you are. Be the way you are. Interact the way you do.

But be aware of those interactions and if they result in some sort of negative or unpleasant or stress feeling then look back at that feeling and say, “Why did I feel that way?” Find the fear that's at the root of it and get rid of the fear. And that seems like a very hard thing to do at first. But if you really try that you'll find that it won’t take you very many months before you make real progress. And it's a great way to grow yourself just by paying attention, living in the moment, living in the now, paying attention to what you're doing and why you're doing it and how it feels. Does it feel good? Does it feel negative?



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:57 pm 
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Very amazing how you always seem to have all these answers of Tom ready! Thank you for that!
This is already much clearer!

There's still a bit confusion though. Let me try to describe the process:

- Always inter(act) at the being level. This can be dangerous (causing troubles) if your being level is messed up, right?
- Pick up the feedback you get and ask "why" questions. This is all intellect, right?
- The "why's" go back to a fear. Try to eliminate the fear. How to do that without using the intellect? And if you "can" use your intellect, what does it look like?

If you feel negative, how can you consciously make another choice without using the intellect? How can the being level "know" that another decision is required if you never "teach" it that? Does it mean that just because you feel bad there will automatically be an extra choice added to the being level?

Sorry for all those questions, but those are the ones I simply don't get.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:19 pm 
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You will naturally act from your intellect until you bootstrap up to a higher level of consciousness. Because most of us are just kindergartners, we have to have an intellectual social presence to keep us out of trouble. But you should question the things you don't feel right about afterward- like Tom's example of the person who drops money but only gives it back because people are watching.

As you face and conquer your fears, and evolve your QoC, then you will act more from your being level. You won't have to have an intellectual conversation with yourself over right and wrong. You will intuitively know from your being, and act accordingly, without having to intellectualize it.

In the mean time...

Tom:
Stop thinking, judging, expecting, analyzing, comparing, assessing, guessing, second guessing, assuming, etc. Stop thinking. Just be and experience existence without analysis. Simply experience the world you sense without attaching anything to it with your intellect. Be in the moment, observe without assessing or judging everything by how it affects and interacts with you. Do what seems intuitively right each moment -- accept and learn from the consequences -- experience/live reality moment by moment rather than limiting your reality to a little more than a reflection of fears, worries, needs and wants projected by your intellect.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6843&p=61149#p61149


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:25 pm 
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Using the intellect is required for processing feedback/growing. How would you know that your decision was bad if you couldn't think about it? Thinking requires access to past experiences (memory), memory is required for consciousness. If you didn't use your intellect you would never learn and wouldn't be conscious, just robotic. Using intellect for change at the being level is like repetition is used to create a habit, both are about changing your default behavior.

The distinction between the being level and the intellect is metaphorical. Tom separates them because most people use the intellect to serve the ego.

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