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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Hi,

I have just finished reading TC's MBT and I cannot claim to remember all that I have read, or for that matter even 50%. But I did get the impression from the trilogy that experience of NPMR can come about by becoming love, however I would like to look into other methods of experiencing NPMR as becoming love is not an easy thing to achieve and could be a multi-incarnation task. I also feel that experience of NPMR would be an additional and powerful catalyst to becoming love for me.

Although I can experience NPMR through a dream state I am not fully aware when I am in this state so the dream state does not really seem real for me, although I still try and make good choices in the context of the dream. I have had, once and once only, an out of body experience where I was fully aware but this was very brief primarily because I was scared and got back to my body too quickly once out. I would like to experience this again.

I have been and continue to meditate, although after a year this is not currently producing anything other than being more relaxed, but I still persist. I know that some drugs could give me this experience and prior to reading MBT I was considering going to a Ayahuasca ceremony as this seemed to offer a way for me to reduce the amount of grief and anger that is within me which has always been a problem I have trouble with.

Having read MBT I note that towards the end of it Tom recommends not being blasted into NPMR by the use of drugs, but I cannot remember him saying anything regarding whether it is OK to experience altered states of consciousness via methods developed by him and used by the Monroe Institute.

Can anyone shed some light on this latter?

Regards

Steve


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:32 pm 
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Tom even has some binary beats recordings of his own on his web site store so you certainly can take that approach.

Access to NPMR is not the or a primary purpose. Making your own connection to the LCS and guidance is more important. The primary purpose in coming here to PMR is to interact and pay attention to the feedback. The gradual result is to reduce entropy and raise QOC with the final result of becoming love. Experiencing NPMR does nothing in itself to follow this path. For most people, it is entertainment. Unless you undertake a serious project as Tom did of exploration and personal learning, it is entertainment.

Ted


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:11 am 
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I can give you an example:

I started meditating in the hopes of getting an OOBE. I forgot the main part, as Ted sais.
Gradually I released my expectations and focused on fears and believes. I used meditation to get a conversation with myself.
Even stopped meditating regularly. At the beginning, I wrote down everything and was really going towards that OOBE experience.
Now that is not really important anymore since I understand my Intent behind it.
Why do you want that OOBE? Is it useful?
I think when you work on everything that is important to you and your Intent is something useful, you will eventually get an OOBE.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:03 pm 
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Hi,

Thanks for the responses, the main reason I would like further NPMR experience is because it is proof that there is more to life than that within PMR, especially if it is repeatable rather than a one off occurrence. If I can't have additional experience of NPMR then it isn't the end of the world but I feel certain that additional proof would make what TC is saying more likely to be true for me.

However I also appreciate that it may be an ego driven thing to want to experience NPMR and I guess that is less likely to happen for me because of this. I don't feel it is an ego driven thing but I wouldn't rule it out.

Regards

Steve


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:34 am 
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Steve,
Quote:
especially if it is repeatable rather than a one off occurrence.
'Aye, there's the rub' as Shakespeare said. Remember that Tom Campbell spent decades reaching this point in his explorations. As Tom explains many times, NPMR exploration requires interpretation and many repetitions to figure out what is really going on. Most people are seeking 'thrills' and perhaps 'chills'. But if you are seeking confirmation of what Tom teaches, expect to put in decades of serious work.

This is why we sort of warn you away from this path unless you are seriously prepared for the long haul. There are plenty of other ways to realize that there is more to Reality and it is like Tom describes. Meditation is the key in any case. And it is also requisite for NPMR access whether OBE or any other kind of LCS contact. When you ask and receive answers from guides, will that not tell you something? That is one of the kinds of things that Tom explains that you can do. And you can keep seeking OOBE while realizing that you are on the path for all of these other experiences that are equally or more valuable.

Ted


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Hi Ted,

Thanks, looks like I will just have to continue to plod forward.

Regards

Steve


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:26 pm 
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Steve,

I'm sorry, but that is the way that it is. There is a story I read about in a book about Zen Buddhism, which depends on meditation as a mental discipline also. The novice asks the master how long it will take him to reach 'realization' or 'understanding' and was told 5 years. (don't count on exactness of terms or times) The Novice asked 'but what if I work twice as hard'? The master said 10 years. So the novice said what if I do this or do that and work ever so hard? The master said, oh, then 20 years.

The story has whiskers on it and I've probably told it before. This kind of personal development simply cannot be hurried. A lot depends upon where we start from as in past incarnations. Something that almost none of us know. From PMR we cannot possibly know, per Tom Campbell, what our QOC is in our base being. Start to meditate and see where it takes you. Your integrity and consistency can take you far in working towards success. When you can reach a Void state in meditation consistently and for times extending up to half an hour, you are making real progress. Then start to ask for contact with guidance. By being in the Void you can hear the response. Ask for guidance. Repeat as necessary as your guides may put you to a trial to confirm your sincerity and persistence. They may tell you things, take you places, whatever as you have opened the door more surely than jumping into some OOB situation and scaring yourself. Or they may throw you in at the deep end. They are supposed to know you and what you need most better than your own Mama.

Enjoy the trip. It is life long. At least if you are the right kind of person to be taking it.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:50 pm 
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Hi Ted,

Thanks for this, obviously as with probably most people, I'd like to get there quicker but this isn't an option. But I guess it will come when I am ready.

Regards

Steve


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:44 pm 
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Steve,
if reaching OBE is so important for you have you considered reading other authors on how to achieve OBE/AP? TC is not an OBE teacher per se.
E.g. try Bill Buhlman's first book "Adventures Beyond The Body". It helped me a lot when I started. Or Robert Bruce' Astral Dynamics. Kurt Leland's books. There are many more who teach techniques. Or go to an OBE forum like The Astralpulse forums. You might find a method that works for you among the many stickies, discussions and experiences shared in threads. Meditation alone does not necessarily lead to OBE because that is not the purpose of it to be frank.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:10 pm 
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Hi Volgerle,

Thanks for that, OBE is important to me from the perspective that it is "tasting the pudding" to quote TC, proof that NPMR exists. If NPMR exists in my experience then the whole of what TC says falls easily into place.

I will do as you say and have a look at some of the other options.

Regards

Steve


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:15 pm 
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Yeah, I think trying to have an OBE during meditation is probably one of the hardest ways to approach it. It would be much easier to have a spontaneous OBE when on the borderlines of sleep. At least this may be the most natural way that I know of. On nights when I wake up around 3AM and can't go back to sleep for a long time there is a very good chance that at around the point when I start falling asleep again I will either experience the "vibrations", find myself slipping into a stream of lucid dreams, or wake up in the void. You can also do this on purpose by waking yourself up and staying awake. You have to pay very close attention as long as possible as sleep comes. You can't ever get frustrated, be afraid of anything, or worry about it and just need to let it go.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:12 am 
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Research OBE technique Wake-Back-To-Bed.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:03 am 
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Thanks to all,

I'm going to be busy reading for awhile.

Regards

Steve


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