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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 6:23 pm 
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Sir chips,
You can see through this illustration how memoried embodiment results in substantially faster and more efficient growth than reincarnation.
I would agree with you here,... however as long as you dont also bring along with these proposed gains your claiming, this emotional baggage from your previous incarnations, Tom often speaks about,.. if it is the case that this memoried embodiment, allows that to sneek in..Than this would of course hinder any growth progress ..that your claiming in your example..


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 9:56 am 
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Brian50 wrote: I would agree with you here,... however as long as you dont also bring along with these proposed gains your claiming, this emotional baggage from your previous incarnations, Tom often speaks about,.. if it is the case that this memoried embodiment, allows that to sneek in..Than this would of course hinder any growth progress ..that your claiming in your example..

You bring along everything, the bad with the good. The system neither intentionally makes growth more tedious and slower than it has to be, as in the case of reincarnation, nor does it give you manufactured shortcuts as in wiping away your memories of bad experiences, as neither of those would be optimal for growth. Things happen and you get to deal with it. It’s in the feedback and overcoming that growth takes place, not in any easy way out. Changes in circumstances can be sought after and attained, but there is no escape from your internal state other than through positive growth.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:08 pm 
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The problem is that for you to reach the same point where you left off previously could take many years. So let’s say you see the woman slip when you are fifteen years old, you may not have caught up yet to where you were when you were Suzy and helped out the first woman. You may not only hesitate but may end up not reaching out to help at all, and perhaps it would take years before you did so. Since you started over as a baby, you had no contextual awareness or learned experience when you first came back; you need to shed a lot of the childhood egocentricity you started off with; you may need to shed off the influences of a bad upbringing; perhaps you even de-evolved some because of your early experiences; and you need to relearn things before you can manifest the full growth potential that you had reached where you left off last time, and then continue your growth from there.
Not necessarily true. There are many kids that show QoC. And that evolved 15 year old would most likely rush to help that woman without a thought. And if he didn't then he is de-evolving.

Boy Scout buys over $11,000 in Christmas gifts for kids in foster care, shelters

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Living/boy-s ... d=95651677


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:48 pm 
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Sainbury wrote: Not necessarily true. There are many kids that show QoC. And that evolved 15 year old would most likely rush to help that woman without a thought. And if he didn't then he is de-evolving.

Boy Scout buys over $11,000 in Christmas gifts for kids in foster care, shelters

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Living/boy-s ... d=95651677

Not necessarily true is correct, but I wasn't saying that all 15 year olds would react the same way. The example was only meant to illustrate the lag time that exists in MBT's reincarnation model before the same QOC is reached as in the previous life. Maybe for someone it would be at 5 years old, for someone else it would be at 20, and yet for someone else it wouldn’t happen until 35 years of age.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:59 am 
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Hi there Sirchips :)

I thought we would try and make some main points about your subjective afterlife model , and you can make comments or additions where you feel are necessary -

1) Consciousness/ IUOC is eternal

2) only 1 life experience packet in PMR earth

3) other experiences in other VR's/ reality frames but not PMR earth ?

4) (ME), is a part of self identity ?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:15 am 
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There is no catching up to the QoC from a previous life, it starts at birth. There is only the constraints of being young until you mature in body. And if your entropy is low enough that doesn't matter. Look up Mattie Stepanek.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:07 pm 
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Sainbury wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:15 am There is no catching up to the QoC from a previous life, it starts at birth. There is only the constraints of being young until you mature in body.

Well that's not really how Tom puts it since he has spoken of it in terms of catching up, in terms of life lessons and experiences, and the natural egocentricity from childhood you need to grow out of which could last well into adulthood, and for some into middle age and even beyond. So it's more than just maturing in your body.


Last edited by sirchips on Fri Dec 23, 2022 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:52 pm 
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Hi Brian, regarding your four points:

Brian50 wrote: 1) Consciousness/ IUOC is eternal
Consciousness emanates naturally from being itself (existence itself). Primordial being or existence always has been and always will be. It is eternal and timeless. Time enters the picture through the states of awareness that emanate from it. Time is inherent in the consciousness superstructures like the system we're in because within them there are before and after states. As IUOCs our awareness derives from this consciousness superstructure/system of which we are a part. The question of whether as a new individuated unit of consciousness we are truly brand new, or whether we already had some sort of pre-individuated existence probably doesn't matter, may not make any difference, and may not even be a meaningful question outside of our limited perspective. Certainly, we start off with behavioral/instinctive/intuitive memories/programming of some kind, quality of consciousness through heredity, and certain understandings which were drawn into us from the preexisting system of which we're a part. Again, whether we as individuals are an expansion of that consciousness, or were preexisting in some nonindividuated way, I suspect is not a meaningful enough distinction to get hung up on. The ground of being from which our consciousness ultimately emanates is eternal, so from that perspective so are we. Once the IUOC itself comes together, it continues to evolve unendingly from thereon in.

Brian50 wrote: 2) only 1 life experience packet in PMR earth
Yes, that's because earth is only a nursery school PMR for newly individuated units of consciousness. There are other PMRs. The belief that we come back to earth is in large part driven by the mistaken belief that earth is the only PMR (and/or that other realities, if they even exist, are only ethereal), which is an erroneous assumption based on our limited PMR perspective through which it is commonly (though incorrectly) assumed that the only PMR we perceive must be the only one that exists.

Brian50 wrote: 3) other experiences in other VR's/ reality frames but not PMR earth ?
Correct, including other PMR reality frames, i.e. strict ruleset VRs.

Brian50 wrote: 4) (ME), is a part of self identity ?
Yes, as the lower self, although one that evolves dynamically and holistically over time and through experiences, which is the very reason it exists in the first place.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:23 pm 
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sirchips wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:07 pm
Sainbury wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:15 am There is no catching up to the QoC from a previous life, it starts at birth. There is only the constraints of being young until you mature in body.
Well that's not really how Tom puts it since he has spoken of it in terms of catching up, in terms of life lessons and experiences, and the natural egocentricity from childhood you need to grow out of which could last well into adulthood, and for some into middle age and even beyond. So it's more than just maturing in your body.
Do you have a reference to that?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:04 pm 
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Sainbury wrote:Do you have a reference to that?
When I paraphrase Tom, I base it on memory from his video talks of which there are many, and I don't keep track of where he said what. But you may be able to find where he talks about the subject by using the new MBT search feature. I haven't used it myself, but that may be a way to find videos where he talks about a certain subject.

But you shouldn't really need Tom for that anyway. It's pretty obvious that most kids, though not all, are pretty self-centered and that there's a tendency to grow more mature as people get older and have more experiences, though at different rates. And some don't seem to mature much at all.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:27 am 
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Most kids have an average to low QoC because most of the population does. But that wasn't the scenario.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:33 am 
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Sainbury wrote: Most kids have an average to low QoC because most of the population does. But that wasn't the scenario.

This is true but, even these average to low QoC people undergo some maturation from childhood toward and into adulthood. That doesn't mean that they are no longer low to average QoC now that they're older, but in the MBT model, they would at some such point have gotten back to where they can manifest the full QoC that they left off with in their previous life and continue growing from there. For most, getting to that point wouldn't happen in early childhood, but years later.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 8:42 am 
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It is true that the child doesn't have an adult brain. And also a child has a more limited decision space. But, that doesn't mean that a child can't have a high QoC, and make quality decisions within what is available to them.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 9:12 am 
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Sainbury wrote: It is true that the child doesn't have an adult brain. And also a child has a more limited decision space. But, that doesn't mean that a child can't have a high QoC, and make quality decisions within what is available to them.

Yes, the child can have a high QoC, higher even than adults. I haven’t said that can’t be the case. But whether the child has a high or low QoC is not the point, but rather how long it takes, according to MBT, to reach his full QoC potential that he had left off with in his previous life. MBT does not give a fixed number of years other than to say it depends on the person, his experiences, and his QoC. Again, it could be 5 years old, 20 years old, or 35 years old before his previous QoC is fully manifested. It varies.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:34 pm 
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Ted - We are fundamentally IUOCs which are digital minds. We experience ourselves to exist simultaneously in multiple Virtual Realities because our digital minds 'time share' between those realities. A VR is something that we experience strictly by virtue of receiving a data stream over the Reality Wide Web which defines, contains the contents of, that VR experience. That is, VRs are not 'out there' but are experienced entirely within our digital minds and are created by what Tom calls The Big Computer. TBC is however just a lot of us IUOCs working together to generate these VRs based upon first creating them, projecting them ahead based upon probability and integrating the interactions of those IUOCs who participate within them into 'what happens'. Then TBC 'renders' this calculated VR into the data stream that shows and tells us what is happening.

http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewto ... 217#p76217

If you understand this, then you will realize that whatever entropy was left at the end of one experience packet is the same that starts the next life. The constraints of the ruleset are the only difference between the adult and the child. The child can evolve or de-evolve with the decisions it makes up to adulthood. Most of the time very little changes from child to adult. And often not much changes from adult to death. That is why it takes so many cycles to get anywhere.


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