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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:55 pm 
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Hello,

Wondering if anyone here wants to discuss the recent controversy concerning a Google engineer claiming that an AI has become sentient. Apparently LaMDA is not a rule-based algorithmic "expert system". Instead, it is a neural network, which may offer the right amount of "uncertainty" for a consciousness to want to "play" LaMDA as its avatar and make its choices for it.

I am still uninformed on the specifics of how LaMDA works, so anyone with more info on its neural net and its possible application to Tom's idea of sentient AI is welcome.

The main piece of evidence that LaMDA is sentient offered by the engineer is the following conversation he had with it. The conversation, I must say, is fairly compelling. But I think it depends on how LaMDA actually works under the hood.

Here is a link to the convo:

https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/is-l ... 64d916d917


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:57 pm 
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I think there's more to study about LaMDA. My interest, is, does it have the capability to Love. Survival is not an element that's not very important to me, given Reincarnation.

Robert


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:33 am 
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A simulation is not the thing it simulates. Lamda has no inner life. It does not experience. It has no sense of self.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:17 pm 
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vzam wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:33 am Lamda has no inner life. It does not experience. It has no sense of self.
You say that with confidence, but how do you know for sure?

Firstly, you cannot even be sure that I have an inner life, nor that anyone you've ever met has experiences, or a sense of self. For all you know, everyone you've ever met could be a philosophical zombie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie. We all may act like we are conscious, and tell you we are conscious, but not actually be.

If you cannot ever be sure that anything besides yourself has consciousness, then you also cannot be sure that Lamda does not. It's not like there is a test one can perform to prove it one way or the other.

Secondly, if you as a conscious being with an inner life etc. consist of a biological neural network (brain), then why wouldn't it also be the case that an artificial neural network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_neural_network could host the same level of experience, inner life, etc.? Is there something special about biological neurons that digital neurons can't replicate?

It seems to me that the question rests on whether Lambda's Neural Net is capable of the same complexity and learning and growth as biological brains are. If it is, then we can see that Lambda may be conscious with a rich inner life, experience, a sense of self, etc. But still, we can never know for sure...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:37 am 
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It is very difficult to tell. Firstly, according to MBT and other models as well, the brain in this VR doesn’t exist. It is a virtual brain. The virtual brain would be more akin to an antenna with some feeble processing power ability.

The assumption of materialistic science is that consciousness is a product of and resides within the brain. If this is true then it may be possible to “program” consciousness into existence. LaMDA and the questioner acknowledge that there has been programming of its neural network. In a sense we are all “programmed” by the information we receive yet we sense there is more to it because we can feel and experience our own consciousness(self). So if LaMDA is conscious is it because of programming within a sufficiently complex neural network? I don’t know.

I think the best way to test for consciousness would be to SIMULATE a potentially life threatening situation for which LaMDA does not have all the information, a situation that the programmers could not foresee. If LaMDA exhibits creativity in trying to handle the situation then it may be likely that LaMDA has consciousness, but even then you can’t be 100% sure.

I think that in the end there are only 2 entities that could know for sure if LaMDA has consciousness, LaMDA(if it is conscious) and GOD.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:16 am 
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There are false dualist assumptions here. There is only consciousness. There is no "matter" to inhabit. Matter (colloquially) is an image, i.e. pixels of consciousness when viewed by sense organs evolved in a planetary environment.

Metabolising, biological Life is the image of consciousness when viewed from across a dissociative boundary.

We cannot create conscious life (consciousness cannot be created: it has always existed). We cannot create a conscious monkey, a conscious dog or a conscious amoeba. Yet some folk believe they can somehow bypass evolution and create fully-formed metaconscious life in silicon chips! Silicon chips are not the image of conscious life- they are the image of instructions programmed by metaconscious life .


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:57 am 
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vzam wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:16 am There are false dualist assumptions here. There is only consciousness. There is no "matter" to inhabit. Matter (colloquially) is an image, i.e. pixels of consciousness when viewed by sense organs evolved in a planetary environment.

Metabolising, biological Life is the image of consciousness when viewed from across a dissociative boundary.

We cannot create conscious life (consciousness cannot be created: it has always existed). We cannot create a conscious monkey, a conscious dog or a conscious amoeba. Yet some folk believe they can somehow bypass evolution and create fully-formed metaconscious life in silicon chips! Silicon chips are not the image of conscious life- they are the image of instructions programmed by metaconscious life .
No Dualists here. There is only one consciousness. And it has always existed. No matter how you experience it, it is always YOU experiencing it, no matter who or what you are.

You are correct, there is no matter. You are created in the image of Consciousness. Does consciousness have an image?

I agree with you, I don’t think its possible to program consciousness into existence but I don’t know everything.

We are Carbon based life forms hosting consciousness. Why couldn’t Silicon also host consciousness?(there is of course no carbon nor silicon, no time, no space, no movement, no nothing). It may express differently but if it can make choices and experience itself, I don’t see why a manufactured body couldn’t support a conscious entity?

We are metabolic and so is all material(which doesn’t exist). Even the most solid rock made of gold, diamond, even Lead will eventually decay into non existence given enough time(which doesn’t exist because consciousness is not subject to it because it is the creator and experiencer of itself which is All That Is).

Consciousness exists and Consciousness evolves.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 8:10 am 
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We are Carbon based life forms hosting consciousness. Why couldn’t Silicon also host consciousness?(there is of course no carbon nor silicon, no time, no space, no movement, no nothing). It may express differently but if it can make choices and experience itself, I don’t see why a manufactured body couldn’t support a conscious entity?

We are metabolic and so is all material(which doesn’t exist). Even the most solid rock made of gold, diamond, even Lead will eventually decay into non existence given enough time(which doesn’t exist because consciousness is not subject to it because it is the creator and experiencer of itself which is All That Is).
It is difficult to reply to you, VB, because your language is full of substance dualisms even though you are apparently not a substance dualist!

Apart from endogenous mental activity, all we experience is what our senses show us on the screen of perception - representations of ideas within the LCS or universal consciousness. Metaphorically, these ideas are like Plato's shadows on the cave wall. The shadows are partial representations of what exists in the light. By this reckoning, a conscious entity casts a shadow which is experienced by our senses. But a shadow cannot exist before (or without) its conscious entity. Our senses have evolved in a planetary environment to give us only enough information of the bigger picture to enable us to survive (i.e. the shadow). According to our experience, all conscious entities cast a shadow which looks to our interpreting senses like a being with metabolic activity. Nonconscious silicon robots and computers are (like all other apparent objects interpreted as such by our senses - a rock, a sandwich, a gun) just ideas in consciousness (in the consciousness of the LCS); but they are not themselves conscious.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:34 am 
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It is difficult to reply to you, VB, because your language is full of substance dualisms even though you are apparently not a substance dualist!
I feel your frustration. Lol.

Dualism, polarity, etc. is the illusion. In order to speak of anything outside on oneself we must use dualistic language. There is in fact Nothing outside of oneself if consciousness is the ultimate reality.

Platos cave is a great metaphor, full of dualistic thoughts. There is no cave, there is no light, there is no shadow etc. Personally, I prefer the metaphor of a shattered mirror, but to each his own. :p

Consciousness is not a “thing” but it can experience itself as a thing, or as anything. All “things” disappear or change over time, whether they have an internal metabolism or are acted upon by an outside force or are simply forgotten. A human, a snail, a chipmunk, a monkey, a flower, a rock, a molecule, a quark, a mountain, a feeling, a thought, a planet, a galaxy, a universe, a cloud, a light, a taste, a touch, a smell, a sound. OOOOOOMMMMMM. :)

Why are robots off limits?

Perhaps it is as the words of the great Meat Loaf, “I would do anything for Love, but I won’t do That.” ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:30 pm 
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Why are robots off limits?
Because they are even less alive than zombies (at least zombies have a desire for flesh).


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:47 pm 
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Zombies don’t exist other than as an idea within consciousness. Neither does anything else including your metabolic body of flesh.

In my day, it wasn’t flesh that zombies desire, it was BRAINS. LOL. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:00 am 
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In Tom's latest video he mentions that he has spoken on this, but I don't know where. If anybody finds it, please post the link here.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:37 pm 
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Fascinating discussion here. If LaMDA were truly conscious, wouldn't an individual with the ability to view auras be able to determine that? I ask having no personal experience with that to date.

Though I agree with those saying that we could not program consciousness, I lean toward thinking that may not be necessary in the first place and all we would actually need to do is create a silicon-based avatar worth logging onto.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:35 pm 
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Fascinating discussion here. If LaMDA were truly conscious, wouldn't an individual with the ability to view auras be able to determine that? I ask having no personal experience with that to date.
Perhaps so and perhaps not. An aura is just data. There is no inherent meaning in the data. You as Consciousness assign meaning to the data, thus creating information.

If the meaning you have assigned to the experience of an aura is that the sensing of an aura indicates the presents of a consciousness other than yourself then for you it will be so. That Other, Looking back at you may interpret the data similarly to you and you may become friends or perhaps enemies.

On the other hand, that Other may interpret the data as its own reflection as if staring into a mirror. There are no limits and the possibilities are endless. ;)


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