Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

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Pipeman84
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Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

Post by Pipeman84 »

@ApeSlave
Your post SCREAMS belief and that makes you part of the problem because you're not responsive to rational, logical arguments anymore. Specifically, you're offering Just Inc as a solution, but you've got to be an alien totally clueless about this PMR's ruleset to even start comparing this garbage https://www.ju.st/en-us/products/consumer/egg/folded to a real egg. Not only this food-like product comes with its own trail of sentient beings suffering (because it just doesn't materialize out of thin air on your plate) but it is also detrimental to human health.
You're claiming that animal agriculture is motivated by money, but these companies that peddle so called plant-based alternatives (in reality dangerous chemical concoctions) why are they in business for? To take the money of gullible, misinformed people like yourself.



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I was looking for a little more logic (perhaps love) in the response. You seem to believe it is garbage and that it is detrimental to human health. Where are your data on this?

They are made from plants and nothing weird. Here are the ingredients, to provide you some data:

Water, Mung Bean Protein Isolate, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Corn Starch, Contains less than 2% of Baking Powder (sodium acid pyrophosphate, sodium bicarbonate, corn starch, monocalcium phosphate), Dehydrated Garlic, Dehydrated Onion, Natural Carrot Extractives (color), Natural Turmeric Extractives (color), Salt, Transglutaminase.

Please provide a reason as to why more animals are harmed in this endeavor vs. the torture/slaughter agriculture. Animal Rights endeavors intend to improve on methods of cruelty-free. I think this intention will guide the industry into the safest processes.

Yes, live animal agriculture is absolutely motivated by money - that is a fact. JUST Inc. also makes money - all businesses must, to survive. However, their primary mission is to help relieve suffering. This is radically different from a pig slaughter business, for example. If each consumer decision is a vote, I vote for JUST Inc. vs. Smithfield.

I have informed myself a bit from both sides. I am not gullible enough to accept "Beef, it's what's for dinner". I stand by everything I have stated thus far.

My questions are mostly directed to someone like Tom (in context of an LCS), thank you. I am more than willing to change to something logically superior, always. I don't think I have deviated from MBT much in my logical deductions.

Love is Low Entropy is Stop Torturing Animals.

I guess Love is a belief in the most distilled derivation. "I believe in Love." I am willing to accept at least that one belief.

Michael
Last edited by ApeSlave on Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

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They are made from plants and nothing weird.
Heroine and cocaine are also made from plants...so that makes them ok, right?
You seem to believe it is garbage and that it is detrimental to human health.
Where are your data on this?
What data do you mean? Just look at the ingredients.

As for animal rights...I'm all for it. Let's grow pigs, cows and chickens the ancestral way. It's win-win-win for animals, humans and planet. Let's also be realistic about how the ruleset evolved in this PMR. You can't put a deer in a lion's enclosure and expect them to live happily ever after as you've seen in some Disney cartoon. You can't feed humans chemical concoctions and expect them to be healthy, functional human beings. Just look at how general health has declined over the past 60 years or so as the consumption of food-like products (mostly vegan mixes of flours, oils, sugar) has sky-rocketed.
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Re: Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

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We can assume here that the effects of a mung bean are not comparable to hard drug distillates. In my original post, the product of concern was not even a product. It is a new and theoretically improved meat production method. The Eat JUST, Inc. entity (one of many) is trying to make a purer, cheaper and more sustainable way to produce flesh. In an effort to be transparent, their particular data will always be available. The JUST egg product itself is non-GMO and a simple conglomeration of vegetables - still not sure about the objection here (please point out ingredients of concern). It will become apparent that most animal products will be naturally produced in a compassionate way through cellular agriculture - most likely mainstream by 2030-2040. This is my own personal projection.

I don't wish to deprive people of their joy, quite the opposite. The philosophy of a holistic agriculture is my main interest. Whenever there is an alternative that presents lower entropy for all participants, the path becomes clear to me. Ancestral methods, which I assume to mean a compassionate life brought to an abrupt and painless (as possible) end, would be a marked improvement over the current system by far. That said, even this may become unnecessary as time progresses and evidence presents itself.

Nutrition is largely a matter of belief. We see individuals capable of variable healthy regimens. For each balanced meat eater you present, I can show an example of a balanced vegan - some vegans are silly with their nutrition. Well, maybe not 1:1 as that would imply there are an equal number of vegans. It hasn't been unequivocally proven that meat is necessary to thrive. What has been demonstrated, irrespective of meat or vegetables, is the effect of frequency and quantity of diet. This one variable alone is able to facilitate the healing process, regardless of what is consumed. Hunger may be the manifestation of the detox process.

What I mean by this is that the practitioner can benefit by fasting to various extents. The body doesn't need to consume, consume, consume. The very word "breakfast" is a subtle program that incorporates the idea that eating is necessary at a minimum frequency of once per day. So, this is purely habitual. To a lot of people, going just 3 days without solid food is unheard of, let alone 14+ days. Note: It would be important to be responsibly detoxed, gradual and prepared for such an undertaking.

To touch back on vegan products. Yes, there will be plenty of examples where the product isn't ideal. Many see these products as compensatory for meat. They often are. This does not mean that those products are necessary to consume to be a balanced vegan. It's just a convenience, especially if you find the better vegan products that aren't pure GMO. These are usually produced by companies with animal rights as a simultaneous or primary mission. The trash products are usually produced by profit-minded companies.

Animals attacking animals is a matter of single instance behavior. You will never find a lion setting up a deer factory farm. Maybe if they had a human mindset, they would. The ruleset of this PMR is still speculative and interpretive. Saying you know the rulebook must be belief-based. If there are any hard facts that you are aware of, I am always willing to consider. I love the work of Tom Campbell and he has helped me to see that the access part of the LCS is able to be free of ritual and bias. My main bias, that I admit and probably won't let go, is that we don't need to hurt others in a systematic fashion, especially if we know better. I say "probably" because I allow for the odd chance that I would like to torture billions of individuals in some PMR scheme. Though I can't brainstorm when this could occur. That's actually just a formalism to allow for an MBT-palatable response.

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Re: Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

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Humans have evolved to thrive on whole foods which are much more than just a combination of the 3 macro-nutrients (protein, carbs, fat). So you can't just use ultra-processing to extract protein from X, fat from Y, carbs from Z, mix them together and voila, you created a new food. (that's why I mentioned cocaine...in it's natural matrix, coca leaves, it's ok, when ultra-processed, it's not. For a less extreme example, think of sugar - it's OK in fruits, it's bad if drank in sugary beverages or consumed mixed with oil - Nutella).

So products like Just Egg might look good on paper, but reality is more complicated. Even if it's not chronically toxic (takes time to establish this, like with trans-fats for instance), it's partly or entirely not recognized by the body as food. So not only you don't get the 7g of protein advertised on the container, you also don't get the myriad vitamins and minerals in the real egg.
Nutrition is largely a matter of belief. We see individuals capable of variable healthy regimens.
The assumption is false. History of human evolution as well as biology, biochemistry etc are pretty much established. Of course there's quite a variability between individuals, but there's a lot of data to show what generally works and what doesn't. The bottom line being that the more and the longer one restricts animal foods, the worse his/her health gets. Those vegans (I personally am not aware of anyone, all the public figures advocating veganism and who've been at it for more than 10 years look prematurely aged, gaunt, lacking muscle mass etc) that are healthy long-term are the outliers...just like the people over 2 meters in height.

Hey, I wish we could just clap our hands and the equivalent (taste-wise and more importantly nutritionally-wise) of a sirloin steak would just materialize on the plate. Think of all the money that would save. But that's not happening and I see no indication that all these 'plant-based' products from the Impossible Burger to Just Eggs are part of the solution, on the contrary. They are this generation's junk food...compared with the classic fries and Coke they come with a halo of health, but it's just a mirage.
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Re: Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

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I can present numerous cases and healthy vegan protocols that can sustain health. The problem is that you believe they are outliers already. Animal products are arbitrary inputs. Do you believe that the human being will die if its body abstains from animal matter for too long? We can debate this until one of us starts slingin' profanities like a couple of pissed off gorillas. This is why a vegan world isn't the immediate goal or the conviction people need to accept.

Quick Surreal Tangent

What if you didn't need food to live in this PMR? I expect that would defy some nutritionist's viewpoints. Veganism isn't necessary either. The main advantage of veganism is that you can be uninvolved with animal abuse, when done correctly. I expect some lovely criticism here - you can checkbox the crazy attribute. I know that upon these characters hitting most peoples' visual cortex, the laughing will immediately commence. You can call me Joker.

Though, I thought people were here to learn about our virtual reality and the ones that exist 'elsewhere', where immortality exists and gosh knows what else. On one note, Tom Campbell does suggest that certain individuals may be food-free to assist in the waking up effort. He doesn't proclaim it as fact, but suggests it may be possible - a.k.a. Breatharianism. The reason would be that it is useful for the LCS to allow such to increase awareness. My basis for this idea is that intuitively (not intellectually) there seems to be something to it. If it isn't complete food freedom, it is likely a drastic decrease in consumption to allow healing mechanisms to proceed.

[EDIT] Actually, I just found a video where Tom does state it as a fact, see 33 min 20 sec:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66roUb1YqNw

The Pragmatic Back-To-Earth Win-Win-Win-Win Strategy

Now, forget plant-based. My content is directed at new meat production methods, to immediately alleviate suffering and allow a smooth transition. When I say immediately, this is relative to mankind's entire history. The transition may take 1 - 2 decades. It is absolutely unrealistic to expect a vegan world at this time, just look at the back and forth between vegan outreach sessions.

Unfortunately, we are in the situation where the global population is doubling rapidly. This equates to doubling the demand on an already unsustainable and cruel system. Due to market dynamics, disease prevention and necessity, I feel Cell Ag is inevitably going to supersede Animal Ag as we know it today.

Main Points

Cultured meat is a new production method for animal flesh.

It is real animal meat, not a plant-based facsimile.

It does grow in a plant-based cell growth media, but the meat cells are real.

It does not have an animal's consciousness, love, pain or fear.

It will provide all the same information that meat offers, because it is meat.

It will be sustainable, perhaps 10x more efficient than standard practice.

It is the first ever humane meat - not just labeled "humane" as a marketing deception.

The data involving its production will be transparent and available to all for scrutiny.

It is going to be targeted to be a healthier version of meat, backed by nutritionists.

Disease control can be more tightly monitored, recorded and enabled.

It is an emerging technology, but the above concepts are its trajectory.

Everyone is a benefactor: animals, vegans for animals, meat-eaters and the planet.

It is worth advocating by all parties, including current meat companies. They already have the resources to pursue the science and technology. This allows them to integrate from the ground level and maintain profit - which is what they care about. The byproduct is they can assist in animal rights, that not being in anyway their goal. It will be a purely business-oriented decision.

Michael
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Re: Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

Post by Shirshir718 »

Hey guys,
I know this is not related to animal rights or eating meat, but just a thought....
Looks like we humans haven't even been able to organise ourselves and get this COVID19 business under control, let alone animal rights.......
I mean what have the governments in the northern hemisphere been doing all summer? Now winter is coming up and the emergency wards are being flooded......🤷🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️
Lucky summer is coming up for my part of the world...
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Re: Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

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Regarding breathatarians...they probably exist, one in a hundred million or so. That doesn't mean we should all stop eating tomorrow and never touch food again. Check out this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirin_Dajo. Do you conclude that we all could pierce ourselves with swords and live to tell the story?

Regarding cultured meat, I'm not too familiar with it...I'm open minded but highly skeptical.

Shirshir makes a good point...2020 the year when we're supposedly so smart and advanced that we're talking about radically changing the way we eat through lab made products. It's also the year the world went basically insane over a virus that mainly kills very sick people over the age of 80.
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Re: Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

Post by Shirshir718 »

Hey pipeman84:

Your question is first up in this fireside chat!
https://youtu.be/IOaEkcUd50k
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Re: Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

Post by Weareone010 »

I found this below and it doesn't shed good light on plants. I don't know what science has been done overall but it certainly looks like you need to watch what you eat even if it is 'natural' when it comes to plants.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-top ... bite-back/
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Re: Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

Post by Shirshir718 »

Weareone010 wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:45 am I found this below and it doesn't shed good light on plants. I don't know what science has been done overall but it certainly looks like you need to watch what you eat even if it is 'natural' when it comes to plants.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-top ... bite-back/
Not to worry, we are only eating virtual plants in this reality.

When I was younger, maybe in my teens. I used to think all the souls of the animals slaughtered by humans are coming back as humans, since so many species of animals have gone extinct but the human population is still increasing.
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Re: Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

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Hey Shirshir
Yes, I noticed. I listened to it again now that you mentioned it. I feel that Tom contradicts himself...in the first part he admits that we are more fearful now than 50 years ago, then a couple minutes later says that due to the internet that showed what happened first in China then in Italy and Spain, we're more aware and basically he doesn't see any inconsistency. Well, if you're more fearful, that extra awareness that the technological advance provides you will only service your fear. Thus you're much more inclined to do stupid things...like his often used example of seeing a bear in the woods...as we've seen across the world.
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Re: Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

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Weareone010 wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:45 am I found this below and it doesn't shed good light on plants. I don't know what science has been done overall but it certainly looks like you need to watch what you eat even if it is 'natural' when it comes to plants.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-top ... bite-back/
That won't sit well with vegans who imagine they live in a world where plants carry labels signed by God/LCS 'nourishing food' while animals have 'don't kill, not suitable for human consumption' warnings.

Oh, one more beef (pun intended) I have with all these 'plant based' alternatives companies that boldly and proudly advertise their products as 'made from plants'. Well, most junk food from Coke to Nutella could say the same thing, right? That sugar and oil come from plants. After all the ultra-processing they hardly bear any resemblance to the plants they came from, but hey, these are just details.:) Somehow I think most people who fawn over the 'plant based' label would see the deceiving advertising if Coca-Cola would use the 'made from plants' line to market their 'water alternative' product.
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Re: Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

Post by Shirshir718 »

Actually my issue with ‘plant based’ vegetarian meat or vegan meat or such food is that they are highly processed. Aren’t we not supposed to eat highly processed food?

So if you want to be a vegan, just eat stuff that comes directly out of the ground.

(Even though I maintain that we are eating virtual plants and virtual food and virtual animals, I mean animal avatars....)
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Re: Animal Rights - Why Does LCS Allow Free Will Abuse?

Post by ApeSlave »

You will be what you believe.

I don't state any of these vegan products are needed to be a healthy vegan. Have an avocado. They are just whatever products. The products are designed to offer something for meat-eaters (not vegans), who live in taste and can't imagine life without the blood. They aren't necessary for anyone, just like eating animals is not necessary for anyone. For the record, as you keep bringing up concentrates, I do not advocate for highly processed stuff to be healthy. Meat isn't healthy, cultured or otherwise.

The only reason that I promoted cell ag is because it serves as a transition for people to get away from murder and torture. I myself am not going to consume it. For those who would actually put meat in their bodies and call it nutrition, that is for them. Animal meat is obsolete. I just want the consciousness that gets electrocuted, kicked, stabbed, screamed at, gassed, its babies stolen and murdered, confined, limbs broken, chemically injected, raped (Dairy), grinded (Eggs - male chicks), castrated, tortured, bolt gunned, eaten unnecessarily - leave them out of this human desire. I don't know why people advocate so vehemently against it. It isn't a conspiracy that the vegans huddled around in a room to trick the world into eating plants, to make them slaves, to make them unhealthy. It is animal (sentient) rights, plain and simple. Health is a byproduct.

Regarding Breatharianism, I didn't promote saying you should stop eating. The possibility is simply enough to prove that most everything we call nutrition is unnecessary and a pure belief. If you have momentum in eating, been eating daily, you will have a ton of toxicity accumulated and deeply rooted. The detox of not eating suddenly coupled with fatalism will do you in. That's science and physical manifestation. It could be something that some willing individuals could work towards with enough patience, study, responsibility and desire. It naturally makes sense that a pure body (no unnecessary inputs) would be a healthy body that fights premature aging effects caused by said inputs - meat and veggies included. My main message is get off animals already, they have suffered enough for hedonism.

In terms of COVID and animal rights, they are intrinsically connected. This pandemic was caused by the mistreatment of animals, like all zoonotic diseases - speculated by the World Health Organization. As things progress, more, let me say, interesting and malevolent diseases will unfold.

The other point I want to make is that we aren't taking into account how fast humans are procreating and demanding unnecessary things like meat. It is ridiculous to think that we can be civil to animals if the demand is doubled in a couple decades or less. The system will just get sloppier, more cruel and disease ridden. Many advocates for live animal agriculture say we can get our act together and have the local farmers dominate. That is delusional because corporate lobbying allows for high concentrations of animals in one place, constituting the majority of all animals produced for food. Who has more money sway, the local guy who pets his cow until it's knifed, or is it the million/billion dollar corporations that influence the legal status? This will be getting worse and worse, not magically better - unless... we all get on the same page that respect is fundamental to all life.

I say, be skeptical about things that affect personal health. Absolutely. Make that and animal rights coincide. Don't arbitrarily blame all plants for poor health. Don't eat the bad ones and don't dabble in concentrates. The vegan products are arbitrary and designated for people who already put meat in their bodies.

Michael
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