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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:29 pm 
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Hi, I'd like to give some background on my meditation practice before asking my question:
I've been meditating with and without binaural beats for some 10 years now.
Often, when I meditate, I find myself suddenly "in" another reality. I may be talking to someone, or I may be witnessing some impossible-to-explain being with a voice that sounds like extremely autotuned singing, or I may be a mother protecting her child during a war, etc. etc.

By the time I realize that this has happened, I've generally returned to PMR.

My interpretation of these events is that I'm in such deep meditation that I'm seeing vivid hypnagogic imagery. This same thing happens to me when I'm sleeping -- vivid hypnagogic scenes that are sometimes so vivid as to scare me and prevent me from falling asleep. Interestingly, I'm a software developer and sometimes see computer code of what my brain is doing while I'm falling asleep. On a couple occasions, I've seen it repeatedly fail when it gets to the "sleep" function. On these two nights, I had insomnia!

Now, with the proper background, my question:
During meditation, I often find myself "seeing" the room around me as if my eyes are open. BUT, it is NOT the room around me as it would actually appear if I opened my eyes. Sometimes the angle is different and sometimes the surroundings are different. For example, sometimes I am looking at a computer, which feels like it's on my lap. But in PMR, my computer is off to the side and I am lying in bed. Today, I was lying down, but looking out over my sheets, which were a different color and texture than the sheets I was actually covered by.

Often, when I realize that I shouldn't be "seeing" my surroundings with my eyes closed, it disappears and I am back in the blackness. But today, I realized what was happening and I "intended" to go into that reality. I've had several OBEs by accident, but I really want to learn to have them more intentionally like Tom. So I was trying to "intend" myself into the reality I was seeing, but my entire reality "buzzed" -- a perfect analogy is when you're in a video game, and you try to move your character off screen into a part of the game that wasn't coded for. You feel this invisible resistance and a sort of "buzzing" in the controller but you don't move. That's what it was like.

Can someone with more proficiency with getting out of body via meditation, as Tom recommends, tell me where I'm going wrong, and what my next step should be?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:00 pm 
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I have had many similar experiences. Often meditating with my eyes closed I will start to see a version of the room I am in. While it might not be exactly the same, or I am thrown into a copy and paste version on the pmr place I am and I see other entities seemingly non player characters part of this vivid experience.

My suggestion to everyone is to try and hold the dark void for a long time before you get into anything else. Something I cannot do at will but have experienced.

It's better to start by learning not to have any data stream and just experience yourself as a unit of consciousness no avatar or data stream. Once you can do that you have ability to enter and exit other simulations at will.

If you are just getting thrown into simulations and going right to other data streams just roll with it.

Have the intention before you start meditating not to have any data stream and to be able to let go of any of them. But anything is better than staring at the backs of your eye lids I suppose.

My goal at this point is to not do any out of body or any exploration but hold the void at will for along as I want in any situation. Whether laying down with eyes closed or anywhere doing two things at once. Parallel processing at tom calls it. I would imagine that should be the goal for anyone here getting into this looking to work on their abilities.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:25 am 
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It is my guess that your intellect is getting in the way of your experiences. You can't think your way into or out of experiences. Your intellect just hinders you. Have experiences and don't analyze them at all during but only afterward. You can use Intent but leave it at that. It takes a LOT of experience in NPMR before you can interpret them. You filter everything you experience in PMR and any other VR through your fears, expectations, ego, etc. So, it takes a lot of practice to determine what is fundamental and what is subjective to you.

Just have fun and don't be so serious.

Check out this post from Tom:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2915


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:38 pm 
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Sainbury wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:25 am Just have fun and don't be so serious.
I love this approach. One of the best you can have when doing your NPMR stuff.
:-)

_________________
"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness."
- Max Planck


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:52 am 
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Hi people,

I find that exploring the LCS or going OB (essentially the same thing) is more about receiving than active pursuing.
If I may use the metaphor, it's like you are playing a game of tennis with the LCS or a dance/tango/waltz with the LCS.
I suppose if you are seeing more and can't actively participate, the LCS might be leading, just showing you things and doing demonstrations.
But just like any sport, you will get better once you practice and play more.
Oh, and don't be too serious about it, remember to have fun.

Cheers,


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:38 pm 
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Thanks everybody! It's great to know that somebody else out there has the same experience of seeing other versions of the room. Your replies have been very helpful. I'm letting myself "receive" instead of chasing after what the LCS has to offer me and it's more pleasant and effective.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:18 pm 
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The closed eye visual thing is common to me, it happens, i remember once it happned i fell asleep and i could see what was in front of me but my eyes were closed. This happens ever so often but note that what u see in the visuals is not exactly what is on the outside its a little different, this has also happened to me in awakened states to a small degree ,. Im nto sure how this functions but u shoudl definitly note it in ur paranomral experienes.. as for OBE iv never really truly developed in those areas but i do dream often and i often fail the fear test which is usualy about jumping from heights. Anyways there is alot u can do while staying awake, the key is becoming aware of ur subjectivity so as u beign to awkknowledge ur thinking patterns, a new version of the self begins to emerge which is seated in the thought area, in other words ur thoughts begin to create a new persona of self which is another reference point from which to compare urself to the world. Before ur body was the reference point which had alot to do with sex. A new morality Model emerges as u begin to interpret the world from a more refined layer of reality, the thinking area.

Its as if there is a subjective consensus within subjectivity, just as u would find a consensus in physical reality. Although the subjective consensus is not bound by space time. And there is alot more emotional data that is shared and is directly linked to ur thinking stimulation


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:41 am 
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A suggestion for something different is to shift focus onto normal everyday life picking up extra data from things you are doing.
When I first heard of OOB I thought it was the only goal to go and explore but for me now it is about being more aware of the data that constantly is available and trusting that data in boring awake states. Then experiences come in 'dreams' or 'OOB' if needed to learn something good or bad.


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