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 Post subject: "Free Energy" and PUP
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:49 pm 
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Hello everyone,

I'm a new member on this discussion board so I'll start with a little introduction of myself. I have just ordered the trilogy, hence I haven't read it yet. I have however studied (espescially western) esoteric and hermetic teachings for many years, so that much of what I've heard in the lectures and interviews is not entirely new to me and therefore I hopefully won't be completly lost in a discussion here. Btw, Tom, how great you share your experience and insights in such a direct way!

To my question:
Does the psi uncertainty principle also account for over unity ("free energy") technologies?

Maybe I should explain the question a little further, "over unity" generators are energy generators that put out more energy than you have to put in. Commonly this is thought to work through the facilitation of the so called zero point or vaccum energy. Rumor has it that at least since Nicola Tesla in the late 1800's individuals have succeeded in tapping into this energy source. Stan Meyer, who allegely built a car that would run on nothing but water, would be a more recent example.

The common explanation of why the planet is still run by oil and not by those free and clean energy sources, is that such technologies are deliberatly suppressed for geo political power issues.

Now this is not just a theoretical question because there is a group of people who created The Orion Project, which's ame it is to bring out those technologies for the benefit of all. The project is headed by Dr. Steven Greer, who some might know through the (UFO) Disclosure Project. They say they have identified individuals who have successfully developed such technologies in classified projects and are willing (and allowed) to work with them. Dr. Greer also says he has created a high profile network including government, media, intelligence and military people who would secretly support the disclosure of such technologies and have alltogether enough clout to do so. Let me add that Dr. Greer is not only known to be a very impressive and convincing personality but also a man of profound spiritual experience.

Where the questions becomes practical is, that the project is trying to raise a budget of 3 million dollars to build and bring out those technologies. So, if Dr. Greer is, first, not delusional and, second, not ignorant of the PUP that might apply here, it would seem to be a very good idea to support this project with a donation.

http://www.theorionproject.org/en/index.html

kind regards,

Stefan


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:40 pm 
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San,

No, I do not think so. But until I understand more about the technologies you speak of and find out how they work, I really don't know what they might relate to.

As always, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I wish Dr. Greer all the luck in the world. I remain open minded and skeptical as we all should, including Dr. Greer -- free energy clashes with a lot of rules, and raising money from investors or donations sets off alarms, but there is much we don't know and conclusions should not be jumped to. Let's hope Dr. Greer is right -- a practical source of cheap energy sure would be handy.

Tom C


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:44 pm 
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Hi San
I used to meet with a group of local folks to discuss the zero point energy field. I have some paperwork somewhere about the Cashmire effect, and a possible faster than light speed vehicle.

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Bette

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:50 am 
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Tom,

yes, there is much that raises scepticism, but also very good arguments are provided. Given the oportunity that is presented, it at least seems justified to take a closer look and make up one's mind.

Here are some links that might help to get an idea of the whole thing:
http://www.theorionproject.org/en/insid ... alone.html (a scienific introduction to the zero point energie field)
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj3qoC_oNos (a for the layman comprehensible short explanation of the casimir effect)
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=nOGAkRkCWfA (a demonstration of Stan Meyers water fuel cell)

As for the fundraising... well, it has some logic in it that for pulling such a groundbreaking technologie into our civilication, it would also take a rise in the collective consciousness that might has to come in the way of public support. We're living in a civilisation that is dominated by the concept of scarcity. The way our economy and monetary system is constructed leads to scarcity and even poverty for the vast majority. So the concept of scarcity is deeply entrenched in the collective consciousness. Therefore the idea of "free energy" is counter intuitive for most people. But isn't the nature of the universe (of LIFE) essentially abundance?

@Bette
Great. And have you been discussing The Orion Project aswell, or is it new to you?
For traveling faster than the speed of light, I believe one would have to shift into a NPMR where the concepts of space and place are different. It is widley believed that this is how extraterrestrial beings conduct interstellar travel. I don't know if there is a relation to zero point energy?

best whishes,

Stefan


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:23 pm 
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Quote:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj3qoC_oNos (a for the layman comprehensible short explanation of the casimir effect)
@Bette
Great. And have you been discussing The Orion Project aswell, or is it new to you?
For traveling faster than the speed of light, I believe one would have to shift into a NPMR where the concepts of space and place are different. It is widely believed that this is how extraterrestrial beings conduct interstellar travel. I don't know if there is a relation to zero point energy?

best whishes,

Stefan
Hi Stefan,
The above quoted link was a neat presentation of the casimir effect (I can now spell it), thank you. It reminded me of a The Learning Company presentation. The Orion project is new to me, our group stopped meeting a couple of years ago. The physicist which used to present this information isn't here anymore, and I have been unable to get the attention of the remainders to introduce them to My Big Toe recently. The physicist could never get the attention required for ZPE being utilized as they saw possible. The faster than speed of light propulsion was created by the effects of the casimir effect, the difference in the outside and the inside of a bubble of ZPE which surrounded the vehicle, as I recall. The vehicle with the bubble emitted from it surrounding it pulling it along, I believe.

The one thing that resonated with me the most in the Orion presentation video is the concept of putting alternative energy sources in third world nations. I lack the insight as the reason behind not having food, is it from not having water to grow it? I have wondered why there aren't solar and wind powered wells to support health and food production for an area, and for other uses. Asking for money turns people off, but a project with enough intent towards lower entropy and raising quality of consciousness should have a larger probability of making it actualize.

By the way, welcome to the discussion group, I hope you will find something wonderful here as I have. I also hope Tom's trilogy resonates in you.

Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:23 am 
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Hi Bette,

Bette: By the way, welcome to the discussion group, I hope you will find something wonderful here as I have. I also hope Tom's trilogy resonates in you.

Stefan: Thanks for the welcome! :) I'm sure it resonates with me, I guess that's what brought me here in the first place. And it actually has given me new impulses already Maybe I kinda got stuck in old concepts and I needed a breath of fresh air to proceed. Feels that way...

Bette:The one thing that resonated with me the most in the Orion presentation video is the concept of putting alternative energy sources in third world nations. I lack the insight as the reason behind not having food, is it from not having water to grow it? I have wondered why there aren't solar and wind powered wells to support health and food production for an area, and for other uses.

Stefan: Every 5 seconds a child is starving to death on this planet. About half of the worlds population has to live on less than 2 dollars a day. Why this is so, and to answer your question, is probalby simple and complex at the same time. Put simple, it is because the "bad guys" are doing the hell of a job. Complex in the way that factors like exploitation, corruption and ignorance play together. To a large degree the "Corporatocracy" of the 1st world countries seems to be responsible. Just one example: Africa is importing food from the European Union because we can, through subsidies, sell it cheaper than local farmers. As a consequence african farmers are put out of business and poverty is increased. There would be many other examples but I'm afraid I'm going too off-topic here...

Solar and wind are expensive technologies so those countries just can't afford them.
So yes, the intend to provide poor countries with "free energy" technologies could, and probably would, free them from being exploited and give them the independency needed to prosper.

Bette:Asking for money turns people off, but a project with enough intent towards lower entropy and raising quality of consciousness should have a larger probability of making it actualize.

Stefan: Yes and quite honestly, although following Dr. Greer's work for more than 2 years I'm still not entirely sure what to make out of it. That's way I posted the question here. My point would be, if these kind of technologies are in principle possible and also desireable (given the high entropy in our societies) it's worth giving it a try, even if we cannot be sure of wether it'll have success or not. To me, it doesn't seem to be such a hard choice to contribute moderatly, when in the worst case you make some cons a little richer, while in the best case help our civilisation doing a quantum leap forward.

It would be very exiting if Tom gets interested in the subject and maybe come up with some observations and comments!

best wishes,

Stefan


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:18 pm 
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Hi

I just found this interesting documentary on ZPE, Telsa, etc.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6535911834

I just started watching it, but it looks good as far as PMR physics go, which I am rather fond of.

I've watched the entire 1:49 hours, and if nothing else starting from around 1:30 on there are several very interesting things said. The entire video is worth watching.

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Bette

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 Post subject: Orion Project News
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:22 pm 
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Hi Bette,

I've watched the documentary you posted. I liked the history and overview part in the beginning. As for the researchers and inventors my question would be, where are they and their invention now 10 years later?

In general I'm still wondering about wether there is some uncertainty principle involved, since many inventors seem to have troubles to create robust systems. Another interesting aspect is mentioned in the video, the christian group (Methernita) who built the Testatica, a overunity system that runs their community, says they won't release their technology to the public since the collective counsciousness it not ready for such a technology (many researchers however had the oportunity to scrutinize the "machine"). Another hint maybe for some rules involved...

Anyway, here's some breaking news from the Orion Project:

"The Orion Project has been awarded the Stan Meyer materials and is completing final negotiations with the owners. The hope is that The Orion Project will have the materials in its possession by the end of the year.

Tune in to the World Puja Network this Friday to hear a detailed interview with Dr. Steven Greer and Dr. Ted Loder on the implications and the exciting next steps in development."

Well, if the whole thing is for real, this is pretty amazing news I guess.

Stefan


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:43 pm 
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Hi Stefan

Thanks for watching the video, it was worth the time for me so knowing you found it useful is nice (it lets me know that possibly my time is being well spent). There is that whole conspiracy theory stuff about why this stuff isn't already happening. The Methernitha issue of holding back until we get our $hit together is sort of off setting, to me, I hope hope there would be enough now, or soon anyway. I checked them out at http://www.methernitha.com/English/english.htm and found them a wonderful model of T and T, or Tribalism and Technology, in synergy. A hopeful sight for sure.

Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:51 am 
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In the latest newsletter of The Orion Project there is an interesting theory being introduced:

"As noted in our October 14 Newsletter last year, retired Col. Thomas Bearden has described some of the physics mechanisms that will allow the extraction of energy from the vacuum. Recently he has written an easy-to-read briefing entitled "Precursor Engineering and the Falsification of Modern Physics" which describes some history of energy physics and why energy science is at a stalemate today.
[...]
He suggests that nothing less than "directly engineering physical reality at will." is possible using the physicist Paul Dirac's concept of "local vacuum tickling."

Dirac's theory involves the a sort of negative energy/negative probabilities (negative E).

This briefing can be found here: http://www.theorionproject.org/en/docum ... cursor.pdf

As a teaser (to follow the link above) for Tom or other physicists here, who are in the fortunate position of being able to evaluate this information, I will quote the following "big" claim, hoping to get some comments on this . :)

"[space-time] ≡ [virtual particle flux of vacuum] ≡ [energy]
With this little formula, we suddenly have a completely unified physics, and we have
totally eliminated any idea of "empty" space. This formula is engineerable by using an
extraordinarily simple process: Dirac's local vacuum tickling." ~ Thomas Eugene Bearden (January 12, 2009)

The application of this tickling on water for example, would result in an decreasing probablity of H and O bonds, hence water falls apart into Brown's Gas. So that would be a theoretical explination for what Stan Mayer and others seem to have found, a clean and practicably inexaustible energy source.

Stefan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:42 am 
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San,
I've been following these 'Free Energy' claims for several years now and am familiar with Tom Bearden's work as well as Bedini's work on radiant energy from the vacuum. I have often thought of experimenting with some of Bedini's ideas but have not followed through as of yet. I also believe Stan Meyers discoveries on electrolysis are completely legit (not hard to believe since there are legitimate patents for all of his work) and have been suppressed. He admits in his documentary that he refused to accept loads of money for his inventions and that he was doing this to try to make this world a better place in which to live and to reduce our dependency on oil.

It's frustrating to think that we probably already have access to all of the technologies needed to solve many of the world's problems and these technologies continue to be suppressed because it would practically halt the cash flow into the hands of the world's most greedy corporations and individuals.

Maybe I'm missing something here from my relatively little PMR view but it certainly seems that we have an insurmountable opposition to positive change and growth on this planet.

I remain optimistic.

-carle


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:02 pm 
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Quote:
Dirac's theory involves the a sort of negative energy/negative probabilities (negative E).
Stefan
This has something to do with the E2=M2c4 with Einstein's only using the square root of this equation with there also being a -E aspect. I don't know how they are connected or understand it, but I'm pretty sure they are. I wish I could come up with where I originally saw this equation.
Love
Bette

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 Post subject: Free Energy UPDATE
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:34 pm 
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Hello Everybody,

2 updates on The Orion Project, that I would like to share:

1. There is now a comprehensive briefing document online at TOP that was created for government officials.
Since the funding of the project through public donations has not been working properly (did not add up to
start a properly funded research facility), their plan B is to make their cause known to the new US administration.
The document can be obtained here: http://www.theorionproject.org/Energy.pdf
This document is currently maken known to members of the administration and congress.

2. In order to make plan B work, they need public support (people making use of their democratic rights), i.e.
american citizens sending requests to their represenatives. FAXes can be sent FOR FREE
(well, at the expenses of TOP) from their website. If you use the implemented fax service,
there will be a letter included that can be personalized. So really it is just a few mouse-clicks
and maybe some comments you'd like to add.

More information and the fax service here: http://www.theorionproject.org/en/fax.html

I might say, that I have no affiliation with TOP, but think this is an important issue (clean energy) and they seem to be working hard and very professionally to come up with practical solutions.

The latest developments on the project are discussed at the World Puja Network "Conversations with Dr. Greer", for anyone who'd like to get more information: http://www.worldpuja.org/archives/2009-02-13/

Stefan


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:30 pm 
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Wireless electricity is here http://tech.msn.com/news/article.aspx?c ... d=17337626. I'll post this in the Telsa link when I find it as well.
Love
Bette

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