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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:42 pm 
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Hi Jeanne:

I think it is better to ask, at least some important general questions, so that you have a better basement to build on as new information comes to you. It's funny some people think I go too much into details and actually I don't see too much details in this thread. I feel a little bit isolated because I think I say simple words but it is like I am in a country where everybody either speaks other languages or they don't care about what is being said.

Jeanne: Right now I'm confused about the difference between "consciousness" and "awareness" and am hoping that a complete reading of the trilogy will clear this up for me.

Claudio: Let me try some analogies. If you understand IT/computers it will be easy, if not let me know and I'll try something else.
The Internet is Consciousness, the web page you are looking at is the awareness. Consciousness is hardware, software, network. Awareness is the domain of the aspects you are focusing at certain time. Another one, consciousness is the computer, your computer. Awareness is the screen (what you are focusing on). Parallel processing is being able to have more than one awareness at a time (focus on 2 or more things at a time), e.g. a hacker that watches 3 monitors at a time, may be 2 more but would notice a 3rd one if some drastic change happens.

Jeanne: I'm also interested in different types of "awarenesses" that exist within the LCS. ( For example: Is there a hierarchy of "awarenesses"?

Claudio: IMO, yes there is.

Jeanne: Does the LCS itself possess "awareness"?

Claudio: Yes, and can be the sum of other "awareness" sets.

Jeanne: Is our awareness evolving or expanding as we lower our entropy?

Claudio: In general it expands as we lower entropy, but awareness goes with free will. Lower the entropy, more the power. You may have a more powerful telescope and can potentially see stars others can't, but you have to use the telescope, if it is sitting there with the caps covering the lenses, there is no awareness.

Jeanne: Do "awarenesses" ever merge?

Claudio: It can merge, IMO. It depends on the observer (Consiousness) capabilities.

Jeanne: Does the LCS itself grow or evolve, or is it fixed?

Claudio: It is constantly changing and also as we all change, some parts evolve in a positive direction, other not and IMO overall in the positive.

Jeanne: Hopefully, my interest in the model is not excessive. :)

Claudio: I know you can drive fast, me too. Easy on the pedal :)

Clau

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:58 am 
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Jeanne,

In Book 2 Section 4 Chapter 22 in the three volume set, "Rule-Sets, Constraints, and Us," Tom says the following in an aside:

"I think of consciousness as the fundamental quantity, and of awareness as its basic attribute. The relationship between consciousness and awareness is similar to the relationship between love and caring for others. Consciousness just is, while awareness ranges from very dim to very bright. Awareness collects data while intelligence is an attribute of awareness that processes, manipulates, evaluates, and interprets the collected data to produce an original higher level understanding, organization, or insight. Intelligence, like awareness, represents ability, has an an associated capacity, and ranges from very dim to very bright."
"Is a clam bright? Maybe? Compared to what? The degree of awareness is relative over a wide span bounded by a limiting capacity that is more or less fixed for a given type of sentient consciousness. Both the awareness level and the intellectual capacity are subject to change through growth and learning (evolution). Henc, the phrase "a dim consciousness" is simply a short-cut for "a consciousness with dim awareness."

Section 4 is great all around. If you haven't already read it, I think you will enjoy it. I have just reread it twice recently.

Ramon


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:23 am 
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Thank you for the reference, Ramon. Jeanne, to match the relationship with "awareness" as used by Tom in the book, you may replace what I was talking about "awareness" with the word "focus" to distinguish them and match with Tom's definition in the book. Then focus (or plural foci) uses the awareness capacity of Consciousness to observe and interpret information subsets.

Are you aware of what I am focusing on this post? :)

Be aware though guys that when Tom talks about awareness in this thread see quote below:
twcjr wrote:Consciousness does not come and go it is always active -- awareness comes and goes with attention -- like being in a dark room with a narrow beamed flashlight
he is talking about a temporary event (like my use of focus in this post). Tom is using two definitions of awareness which are different in this post and the book. Tom and I may be in error when using terms, but open-minded skepticism can put order and interpret data correctly in context. We can all make mistakes, use different definitions, different metaphors, it's good to identify them though and use them in context.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:04 pm 
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Thanks for the input, Claudio and Ramon

For me, the major paradigm shift is that consciousness is fundamental. A fundamental consciousness from which all else comes forth is very different than the Western concept that consciousness that resides in physical brains. Even in Western religious thinking, the "soul" or "spirit" contains the consciousness.

For me, MBT is my first encounter with the concept that consciousness is "all that is". (I've always thought of consciousness as the ability to perceive "all that is".) I can now see that this concept isn't new, but Eastern concepts of all being "illusion" or "maya" never made any sense to me. It just seemed to me like something they were telling themselves to make them feel better about their troubles in life.

MBT helps this concept of consciousness being fundamental make some sense to minds like mine that have been conditioned to assume that the material world is fundamental. Even so, it's difficult to escape my 50 years of conditioning.

In Zen Buddhism, there is a concept of Beginner's Mind, (an attitude of openness, eagerness, and lack of preconceptions when studying a subject). I'm trying to approach MBT that way, but I still find myself ending up down "blind alley's" that are created by previous conditioning.

This new way of thinking, for me is like putting together a large jigsaw puzzle. The concept that "consciousness is fundamental" is like having put together the whole border. Now, I have to put all the individual pieces in place to get a better idea of what the complete picture looks like. (I think this is similar to Claudio's desire to understand the model better.)

Jeanne


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:06 pm 
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Good Jeanne! Keep enjoying the journey!

Clau

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:22 pm 
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My 3 hardback books just arrived in the mail! I just ordered them on Saturday, so delivery was quick.

Hopefully, now I can get up to speed with the rest of you on this topic and others. The books are so much better than struggling with Google.

Now I wish I could take a break from all my PMR activities for awhile and just read. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen. :)

Jeanne


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Good! I got addicted to the book when I got it (I just got the regular trilogy). I was reading it wherever I was going. Once somebody said what is that? Are you studying pedicure? I said: "No it is about Consciousness, Physics, Metaphysics".

She said: "Oh, you always crazy, reading weird stuff!".

Clau

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:27 pm 
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The tipping point for me is always one fundamental question:

What is the "practical application" of MBT in my daily PMR existence.

For me the answer is not complicated and never requires much text.That question is simple and the answer is beautiful. I would invoke Occams Razor on most arguements and dispell a large percentage of them.Tom wrote his works for the western mind..... a self referential,self absorbed, holier than thou,bathed in the blood of science,greedy,self righteous, egotistical, warmongering society,grant sucking,paradigme defending mindset of squalling babies for the most part.If you disagree then re-read book two again and try to realize the part that explains where you stand in scheme of the larger reality.

We come on this board and discuss this and that...but, lets not forget who and what we are.

If you read between the lines as well as the lines then you may be faced with the question...What is the practical application of MBT in your daily experience?Tom it seems to me goes way out of his way to ask each one of us this question

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:04 am 
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I don't notice a change in me, but ever since we went to see Tom in Campbell others have noticed some change in me. I imagine I've always been so lovely, and balanced. lol, joking. If I could just do all of my communicating on a three minute delay, that might be good. I still freak out when confronted by "the system", and their use of fear (my reaction to "them" threatening me being with my children, their weapon of choice). With MBT I can notice what seems to be invisible to others, like rules that don't make any sense, reported reasons for actions which end up being so much BS if you say, hey why ask for this bit of data, and then turn and tell me "unofficially" that data isn't considered here, and shit. Then I freak out about it at them. I need to work on that part, because even with freaking out they see the BS, imagine if I could do it without the stress. "Excuse me mam, but this rule means that rule is moot. Yes, yes Bette, we will fix that." There, for practice.
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Bette

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:23 am 
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I have thought about this a lot and I have also experienced a few interesting "dreams" "OBE's" or "Knowings" whichever term they all seem to me to come into the same realm of where my conscious mind goes when it is not entirely focused on the here and now. In one particularly interesting experience it was as though I was watching a spark fly out of a blackness. I had the thought that this is what a thought from the "all that is" might look like in a metaphor. I observed the spark and then there was a shift to a conscious experience of watching myself orchestrate my own construction as an infant, I was basically being responsible for holding together the atoms of the molecules of the growing fetus which was to house my soul for this incarnation. It occurred to me that I had to have been trained in how to do this with much simpler forms of existence and then was graduated to more complex forms until the point when I had gained enough knowledge to contemplate holding together the millions upon millions of atoms which are within a human form. If one extrapolates this out to larger and larger consciousness collective it would seem to take a very experienced consciousness (TBC) to understand and hold together PMR & NPMR as one focussed unit of consciousness. To be able to bring back data from the realm of NMPR it would seem that one would have to use the experience one has gained in order to make sense of NPMR which is why there are so many different metaphors and why it seems so difficult to put them together, each blind man is feeling the elephant in a different spot so to speak. It seems as though Consciousness holds a mechanism to hold the physical form together and one must have developed enough consciousness in order to obtain this level of existence. With that thought, I wondered how much more experience must be necessary in order to hold together the larger reality systems and the entities which must inhabit that space, it makes sense to me that one must learn to master each level before one could be ready to take on a more complicated form. It is no wonder that it takes so much time to reach a point where one is able to graduate to the next level. There is just so much to learn and understand.

In another experience it was demonstrated that as humans we send out thought sparks similar to that which was sent out in forming "me". In watching the iridescent "light show" of human thoughts as they race through the cosmos it occurred to me why focus is so important, it is with focus that we can hold our thoughts in place for a long enough time to assist in them manifesting. The intensity of light which is emanated during group focus is much more magnified than the power of most individuals focus. In watching the intensity of a group who held their focus on one thought for an extended period of seconds there was much more attraction of co-existing light which was kind of bundled together to increase the "magnitude" of the light beam which resulted from the groups focused thoughts. In answer to this "thicker more focused light beam" an answering energy emanation was sent out to increase the probability that the intention would manifest. I think consciousness goes into light. I guess that is the short answer based on what metaphors I can relate.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:19 am 
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That is brilliant (shiny) Beth, thank you. I hear there was a brightness during the healing session in NC from those involved.
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Bette

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:10 am 
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Hi Bette. Think of an ocean of little lights floating and bobbing about. You are watching from above (NPMR) and a small group of lights suddenly become a hundred times as bright. They stand out, they shine with color and presence and intent. That was us :)
I think Tom may have slipped on some shades, the candlepower was awesome.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:52 pm 
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There is a much simpler theory: Losing consciousness is an illusion. Or to put it another way, you don't "lose consciousness" during sleep, you simply "fast forward" in time.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:02 pm 
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twcjr wrote:The problem is created by putting yourself (present PMR memory) at the core of, the very definition of, your consciousness.
Your use of the word "consciousness" is very unusual. I had trouble understanding what you meant here. "Consciousness" actually means awareness, that is its dictionary definition and what most people mean when they use the word. What you seem to mean by it thought is more like "memory".


Last edited by andre on Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:15 pm 
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andre wrote:
twcjr wrote:The problem is created by putting yourself (present PMR memory) at the core of, the very definition of, your consciousness.
So your real consciousness is that which you are not consciouss of? That's illogical.
That's not what was said. It is putting you, andre, as the definition of what you actually are. What you ARE is much bigger than andre.
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Bette

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