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 Post subject: Immortality, a fantasy.
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 7:33 am 
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Immortality as conceived in literature and popular culture is purely a fantasy, a wish fulfillment.

As our higher selves, we have existences extending beyond our normal comprehension of time, based upon our perception as we participate in PMR. As our virtual selves within NPMR, we again experience an existence extending beyond our normal comprehension of time, based upon our perception as we participate in PMR. But none of these existences are realistically infinite in extension. See infinity in this forum of definitions.

Here in PMR, our very definitely finite, short by most standards, 'life span' gives us a bad perspective on relative time and leads us to think of the existence of AUM as endless and our selves in consciousness space as immortal. Or we imagine that literary characters described as immortal can be real. Wish fulfillment fantasy. The reality is long enough and in most cases, PMR experiencers are happy for it to end before things get even worse. Speculation on immortality is unrealistic. You would have to experience something beyond immortality in order to judge immortality. An impossibility.

Lose your fear of personal extinction as your apparent death at the end of each PMR experience packet and you will also lose your fascination with fantasies of immortality. You maintain your existence within your higher self as the amalgamation or distillation of the best that you have ever been in all of your PMR experiences. What more do you want than a vast number of chances to better yourself into the best that you are capable of?

For further perspective, view the thread on virtual beings within this section of the BB: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3567

Ted Vollers


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:50 am 
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I can relate with this, in that immorality is a fantasy. I often find if funny when people fantasize about what it would like to be immortal. This whole concept implies some pretty dire consequences.

For one, what happens when the age of the Sun reaches its expiration date, and the world of which you inhabit as an immortal either explodes or gets sucked into the gravitational collapse of the Sun. Not to mention the slow decay of life on the planet as the system begins its descent into uninhabitable conditions. You're immortal, so you survive only to slowly watch the Sun die.

Next is the inevitable collapse of the Solar System into the gigantic black hole at the center of the galaxy. It would seem that the collapsing system wouldn't be very fun to be immortal in. At some point, you'd want to go somewhere else and experience something different. This immortality would be more of a prison then a blessing.

Even a spiritual immortality comes with some very dire consequences, as I believe this ultimately has severe entropy, instead of growth for the immortal being. Growth comes with the experiences of new and wonderful things, not the constant repetition of the same old thing, over and over... immortality would be a constant perfect boring loop.

Collapsing into the experience of a mortal life gives us a break from the endless buzz of our former self.

If my memory or observation is correct, my desire to come here to this system was exactly from a condition of boredom with my current state. At least, I feel like it was very boring where I once was, and here offered something new, hence the submersion into this focus. If living and dying repetitively for a while scrubs away that boredom, then perhaps that is one of the advantages of death and rebirth.

Like you say, we emerge from the experience a more distilled version of that former self. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 9:52 am 
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Ted,

Maybe it's time to redefine immortality. I think of immortality as the ability to maintain any physical or non-physical manifestation in any reality that I like at any time I choose. As someone who continues to learn and grow without the inconvenience of death.


I don't think this type of immortality is an impossibility,
Kevin


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:36 am 
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Kevin,

Perhaps it is instead time to redefine 'your self'. See this post that I have just made, ninth down from the top in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3566

What do you think? It is much easier to redefine your self concept than it is to redefine the consensus meaning of a word.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:11 pm 
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Immortality is only possible if the construct of your consciousness is capable of not wearing down and if your conscientiousness has a place to exist. IE if earth blows up... can't really live on it anymore.

Whether that is possible is questionable. As pointed out, Infinity can not exist in a system.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:44 pm 
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Clock_skin,

This brings up again the importance of reading the books. My Big TOE explains that there is another place to exist and where we, as our consciousness, do in fact exist and how. Actually more than one place at a time in virtual realities. It is perfectly possible, if you understand the 'bigger picture' setup. These aspects actually come later in the trilogy than the first book.

Ted


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:47 pm 
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Clock_skin wrote:Immortality is only possible if the construct of your consciousness is capable of not wearing down and if your conscientiousness has a place to exist. IE if earth blows up... can't really live on it anymore.

Whether that is possible is questionable. As pointed out, Infinity can not exist in a system.

You need to understand the system before you can say what can and cannot exist in it. Conscientiousness, great word but meaningless as something that needs a place to exist. It doesn't because it we don't have to conscientiously do anything to exist, and neither does consciousness. Consciousness is nonphysical, a nonphysical digital information system that is the only real thing. Are you able to grasp that concept? Seems there may be a need to go bottom line with you. What belief system are you currently living in?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:48 am 
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Somewhere in me, I seem to hold the notion that my existence is finite. What that means exactly I do not know. It could be that at some point in the distant future I (as a IUOC) will willfully let go of any perceived notion of individuality and blend back into all-that-is to later be cycled through the system once again as a new and different IUOC. Such a thing could be see as the final and ultimate act of compassion... putting self before other in the name of growth. However (if this is the case), I have a hunch that if one reaches such a "level" of understanding then the choice is likely not all that difficult to make (relatively speaking).

Of course if this is the case, then we might assume that AUM (us) will also at some point in the distant future make the same choice to return to its source and be cycled through once again as an new AUO. And whatever bubbled up the new AUO, will at some point do the same, and so on. The big question of course is what is the origin.

Just intellectual fun for me at this point. I have no clue. I just sense being finite :)

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:15 am 
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wow, nice thread

this brings to mind the closing scene of the film "American Beauty" where the lead has died and his consciousness is floating up and away, and all he can think is that was one hell of ride, the good, the bad and the ugly.

"Lester: (voice over) I had always heard your entire life flashes in front of your eyes the second before you die. First of all, that one second isn't a second at all, it stretches forever, like an ocean of time....for me, it was lying on my back at Boy Scout Camp, watching falling stars...and yellow leaves, from the maple trees that lined our street...Or my grandmother's hands, and the way her skin seemed like paper...and the first time I saw my cousin Tony's brand new Firebird. And Janie...and Janie. (twice we see his memories of Jane, the second when she was younger, dressed as a princess) And...(with love) Carolyn. (we see a younger happier Carolyn shrieking happily in a carnival ride; we've seen a photo from this long-ago family activity before -- he was looking at one right before his death) I guess I could be really pissed off about what happened to me...but it's hard to stay mad, when there's so much beauty in the world. Sometimes I feel like I'm seeing it all at once, and it's too much, my heart fills up like a balloon that's about to burst...and then I remember to relax, and stop trying to hold on to it, and then it flows through me like rain. And I can't feel anything but gratitude for every single moment of my stupid little life...(amused) You have no idea what I'm talking about, I'm sure. But don't worry...(cut to black)
You will someday."

this to me is possibly one of the most profound quotes of popular cinema ever

Another model I think about is the tactic of writing a draft of a document, but ripping it up and starting over, in order to have a fresh start, not be bound by the first attempt, but having the benefit of learning that occurred in the first draft. A paper or software program or invention model, will be far superior if you start fresh without a legacy constraint, and I think, that's how the system has "engineered" FWAU cycles.

perhaps once one connects with the idea of the broader reality and then begins convert these intellectual ideas to Monroeian "knowns", the problem of immortality fades, and the paradigm is reconfigured into the "what am I" question...my FWAU or my HS or IUOC.

For me this is a knife-edge...what am I, and what is the experience of transition - will I fade out or will my memory of this life fade out - and given my lack of advancement, am I really (the surface that I perceive) just my IUOC's dream character (DC) to be hung in the closet like a jacket once my IUOC's free will moves on to the next cycle.

My Q&A with Tom last month brought out this interesting quote regarding the quality of life as an IUOC or oversoul or HS in the absences of an FWAU (default to PMR FWAU)...and my asking about what that life is like, and would I be able to do cool stuff, and the answer (paraphrasing) was that "we incarnate to PMR to do these things", and that non-incarnate life is boring to point of agitation. Manifesting PMRs and incarnating IS the cool stuff.

All this got me thinking about "what if" I am indeed an eternal IUOC with hundreds of incarnations ahead of me, what are the implications for my utility maximization algorithm (values), and what would I change regarding my PMR lifestyle and goals and where I invest my resources (time, energy etc), and is it possible to build in some of these values so that I don't have to relearn absolutely everything each cycle.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:40 am 
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Randy,
All this got me thinking about "what if" I am indeed an eternal IUOC with hundreds of incarnations ahead of me, what are the implications for my utility maximization algorithm (values), and what would I change regarding my PMR lifestyle and goals and where I invest my resources (time, energy etc), and is it possible to build in some of these values so that I don't have to relearn absolutely everything each cycle.
This is the way the system works. What your interactions gain in terms of QoC and entropy reduction within a PMR experience are effectively stored in your IUOC as the actual digital existence, the code and data, is modified by this, these right interactions. What you gain within a PMR lifetime improves your IUOC and you thus have it available in your next PMR lifetime, stored as the incremental improvement made to your true self as your IUOC.

You do have to relearn how to share toys and play nicely each time as that is necessary to the VR rule set. But each time you have the foundation from last time to start building from and interacting based upon that much better of, that much lower of an entropy level and higher a QoC. It 'ratchets up', experience packet by experience packet, and if you can gradually function mindfully, it becomes like compound interest accumulating in a bank account.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:02 pm 
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Ted Vollers wrote:Randy,

This is the way the system works.

Ted
I guess this highlights the importance of OBE exploration in order to convert these theories to knowns

I am still stuck with treating this as a faith system, which I know is an abuse of Tom's intention.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:51 pm 
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It does make me think that as science and technology continues to progress, the possibility of extending our lives significantly seems (according to what I've heard from Ray Kurtzweil and Aubrey DeGrey) not entirely unreasonable.

Would anyone care to share their opinions on this?

part of me feels that if you are a person who makes efforts to grow then an extended lifespan would give you more opportunity to do just that . . .


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:15 pm 
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That would just make paradigm changes even slower, and more painful for the old in their thinking than they are now, probably. We need to keep populations at sustainable levels which means enough is enough. 100 years is long enough for any person to be instilled with Belief Systems and get rid of as many as possible before giving another bit a chance, or just ruining the VR by overcrowding because they had to have more, more, more immediately.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:41 pm 
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It isn't the length, it is the quality. Longer lives today lead to a higher percentage with Alzheimer's. I have seen enough of that.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:15 pm 
Humans die (very generally speaking here, there are exceptions to the rule) because at some point in their life, their consciousness growth becomes more or less stagnant and their "Higher selves" in realizing this, takes them out of the scene to start afresh.

However, if one continues to expand in consciousness, there is no need for death. The so called necessity of aging, of physical death, etc. are all human illusions based on narrow perception of the larger reality.

To be sure, virtually every aged person is one who has become stagnant in their growth patterns and are trapped by human based illusions and doesn't live up the full measure of love. Eventually, their Greater self may experience a human lifetime who does live up to the full measure of love and done away with all illusions.


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