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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:48 am 
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Hi Tom,

The Sex Center. Obviously this is an essential part of the process of being human. We need to reproduce and that sex drive is there to keep this PMR popping

However, When it comes to pleasure, sexual attraction, frequency of activity etc how does this effect ones entropy reduction efforts? Obviously if you are a nymph, that is indicative to having high entropy
- my question would pertain to a healthy sexually active married life.

Gurdjieff spoke about how the Sex center and something called Si12 can give birth to the astral body.
Some practices drop sexual activity altogether to achieve 'enlightenment'

I have read in different books that the Sex center has an enormous amount of energy, it can be moved, transferred etc.
Is it the most powerful center? compared with mental, emotional, moving etc
In achieving access to NPMR/OBE etc how and what does the use or non use of the sex center energy play?
How much energy is needed, used or required from this area?
Can someone with an Active Healthy sex life be at a disadvantage?


Thanks
OM


Last edited by ObjectiveMind on Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:29 am 
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OM,

Remember that this, PMR, is a VR based on a rule set defining how this system works. That includes sexual reproduction in all aspects whether we are talking hormones or some kind of esoteric "Sex Center" as an aspect of sexuality. And of course, this is a powerful aspect of this VR as being so fundamental and necessary to it's functioning. Many are driven to extremes by the sex drive and it colors much of this virtual reality. It has been utilized in spirituality in many ways in the past from, shall we say, vestal prostitutes in temples to Kundalini Yoga. Obviously sexuality can be used for everything from making money, as sex sells both directly and indirectly, to spirituality. But being based upon the virtual reality rule set, it is not fundamental to Consciousness Space and the big picture reality in the same fundamental way. It neither puts you at an advantage nor a disadvantage in terms of the development of your quality of being nor the lowering of your entropy. It is simply another form of interaction between IUOC participants in this VR, and in other ways in other VRs. As an intense interaction, typically, it can be more significant than others, both for good or for ill. While this is not probably the simple PMR centric answer you are wanting, it is the basic answer to your question.

Ted


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:20 pm 
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I don't think there is anything intrinsically beneficial or detrimental in the actual act itself, whether you perform it 1 time a month or 100. It is simply PMR entities playing the PMR game within the PMR rule set of which sex is a part. I think the gain or detriment is in our reaction to what we are doing and how we relate to others within this context.
Say for example that a person seeks sexual encounters with others and uses them to fulfill their own needs with no care to how it affects the other person. This person leaves a wake of damaged emotions and broken relationships, and hearts, in their wake. I think this would be indicative of a low quality consciousness and detrimental to our growth.
If the same person has relations with multiple partners that share the same view, sex is just sex, I don't see this as bad. It's just biology. The problem here would be in our addiction to the act and what vacancy we are filling in our lives emotionally and spiritually. Little growth would be accomplished with this attitude.
On the positive side, within a loving relationship sex is another way of expressing love and if it helps the relationship become deeper and closer then this is a good thing. I do believe that no one "owes" anyone this though. It shouldn't be forced in any case.
Tom has said often that from a NPMR perspective the important part of any experience, PMR or NPMR, is in how we relate to others and not in the details. Sex is a PMR detail. It isn't important except in how we use it to relate to others.

These are my thoughts on it at the time.

Ramon


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:51 pm 
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Hi Ted

Let me be more specific...

Having Orgasms and the apparent draining of energy that occurs from the event....

Does this effect your ability to access NPMR/OBE state?

Does reducing your sexual activity build up energy that can be used for that purpose?

It sounds to me that you are saying that Sexual activity however frequent does not affect your ability to access NPMR and or your ability to lower your entropy.

OM


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:01 pm 
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Hi OM,

[quote]It sounds to me that you are saying that Sexual activity however frequent does not affect your ability to access NPMR and or your ability to lower your entropy./quote]

It does not hamper or aid on your ability to access NPMR, But if this is something of an addiction /ego attachment it is equal to high entropy consciousness.

Thynes


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:39 pm 
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Being addicted to sex would obviously pertain to high entropy.

However, who is not addicted to sex? we all are wired to be fairly addicted to it instinctively.

My question relates to the energy that is needed from the sex center and how that energy, if depleted regularly due to an active sex life, effects the use and acquisition of psi abilities, NPMR, OBE etc.
If at all.


OM


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Hi OM,

There is a link somewhere on this board where Tom has discussed the sex and energy thing, Ill see if I can find it, but to your last question: However, who is not addicted to sex? Well for the last 1.5 years , sex has become one of the least things I think about, maybe its my age? I am in great health so I don't think thats a factor, My wife thinks I am weird because I just don't think or worry about that any more, I think I could probably go without it for the rest of my stint here and be ok with with it. Whats weird is I see men - woman as the same type being with a difference of women like to chatter alot about stuff 'kinda hard to describe' Maybe a phase ?

Thynes


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:23 pm 
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Hi OM,

I guess I am wrong about the link, I have done a few searches on what I thought I remembered and cant seem to find it. I don't know why I remember this but in my mind loud and clear is Sex has nothing to do with increasing or decreasing your NPMR abilities. If you have a belief it will it most likely will.

Thynes


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:02 pm 
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OM
Back in the day I have experienced possibly NPMR during sex, or sec. ;) It was intense, to say the least, and drugs were involved so who knows what really happened. Tantric sex seems bent on pushing the limits of these PMR bodies, virtual as they are, as I recall of what I read about Tantric sex. I think the Gnostic's ate/eat the effects of male orgasm in their rituals, and there are all sorts of religious sexual stuff, whatever. Sex is highly overrated, although coming from me that statement is funny. I don't and haven't had sex for years, but I still think about it all the time so addiction is addiction. I have been thinking about it in a little bit of a healthier way, lately, perhaps, a little. I really lost my sex drive once I had my twins 20 years ago. I still would like an intimate relationship someday, a true love relationship, but that doesn't require sex although it would be a pleasant addition. What's the sex center? Can you give me a Reader's Digest version, please?
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:22 pm 
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OM,
Ted and Ramon were both right on with their comments but the question remains:

OM: Let me be more specific... Having Orgasms and the apparent draining of energy that occurs from the event.... Does this affect your ability to access NPMR/OBE state? Does reducing your sexual activity build up energy that can be used for that purpose?

No and no -- not in the way you are thinking. Contrary to some religious/metaphysical traditions, orgasm (specifically a male's ejaculation -- which is what you are actually asking about) has no long term negative effects on that male's (or his partner's) spiritual growth. On the other hand, a good loving relationship (which includes regular sex and orgasm as well as much more that lies beyond the physical) does have a long term positive effect on spiritual growth -- as does any deep positive relationship. Good love relationships of all sorts are ego reducers because to develop such a relationship one has to able to develop the capacity to be giving, caring, loving -- focused on other rather than self. Poor relationships tend to be ego enhancers because they usually stem from too many people wanting to be Master of The Universe at the same time in the same universe (focused mostly on their own needs). Developing good relationships is one of the primary exercises of being that we use to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps.

Tom C


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:33 pm 
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I would add something to the comments and that is as long as one is are in control of the act and not the other way around you could be okay. But at the sam time one should be aware of the effects the act (whether sex or whatever else) will have on the self or on other involved whether physically, emotionally/mentally and corally (spirtually or whatever you want to call it). At the end it all goes back to the same simple formula which gets deeper as our awarness expands, is the cost outweighting the benefit. Too many times there is a lot of emotional baggage and damage that need to be carried on many months or even years if not a life time after the pleasure has faded away. One must consider all the consequeses to make sure the damage does not outweight other aspecs.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:47 pm 
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Tom,

Quote: On the other hand, a good loving relationship (which includes regular sex and orgasm as well as much more that lies beyond the physical) does have a long term positive effect on spiritual growth -- as does any deep positive relationship.

Are you saying that without regular sex you cannot have a good loving relationship?

Lets say my wife had a premature historectomy/menopause and cannot take hormones due to health concerns, I am not a doctor but from what I understand in the hormones there are pheromones that act like an attractant to a man and also stimulants for the woman which are now gone. Now from this understanding both the man and the woman are ok and understand the situation and still very much in love and at peace with this issue, Do your views on you must have regular sex to have a good loving relationship change at all?

Thynes


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:17 pm 
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Thynes,

I'm sure Tom will reply too but I think you are reading too much into that sentence. I don't think he's saying "regular sex and orgasm" is a necessary ingredient to a good loving relationship. Take that part in parentheses out to have his actual meaning. The part in the parentheses is simply continuing the topic of discussion which is that regular sex and orgasm aren't detrimental to your growth within the context of a good loving relationship.

Ramon


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:08 pm 
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Tom or anyone else with the ability,

Let me ask you this,

Lets say you have a super duper love making affair with the wife tonight. Then soon after you decide you want to meditate and have a NPMR excursion. Will that impede your process due to the Physical/Energy Drain?


Another point, Being a man or woman, sex is always some sort of distraction. Whether my wife is walking out of the shower, the hot bikini on the beach etc. Sexual attraction itself is a distraction. Its kind of hard to focus on entropy reduction in the playboy mansion I suppose.

My wife is smoking, (I sound like a teenager) we have a wonderful loving relationship in every facet and we enjoy a healthy sex life often.
However, my concern was that I needed to try to make an effort to reduce the exposure (energy drain) to enhance PSI and NPMR ability, entropy reduction etc

It appears that you guys are saying that the Sex center/ being sexually active or very sexually attracted to my IUOC spouse has absolutely nothing to do either directly or indirectly with the Astral Body OBE NPMR etc'
(Gurdjieff said the Sex center - Si12 could give birth to it.) Was he off base....?

Monroe had Astral sex and said that it is different and a far more powerful activity in that state
So the conclusion would be, that Sexual energy or the source of that energy, is not limited to PMR as just another V.R rule set to experience as Ted described.
Logic, skepticism and objectivity would state that there appears to be an inconsistency/need of reconciliation and more to this issue....
Maybe I am an archeologist at heart (an upgrade from a barnacle) : ) and just digging for things but I am asking these questions sincerely.

OM


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:41 am 
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OM,

As has been said elsewhere, one does not have to focus on entropy reduction. That is a function of the PMR system and the whole Consciousness System in fact. One merely has to be here now, aware of the quality of their interactions with others.

As the saying goes, read my lips. We specifically said that it makes no difference. Read the posts over again. Now you may well tend to drift off to sleep afterwards and therefore forget that you also planned an OOBE session that night. But that is another matter. It would be no different if you had a hard day and were tired and went to sleep without a planned session of OOBE. But it has no real relationship to your ability to do so.

Ted


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