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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:08 pm 
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I'm just loaded with questions, and so far everyone has been great in answering them. Here's one that's bugged me.

In a recently interview with Tom(I think it was the last interview or 2). Tom says that in the near death experience
or when you go to other realities, you see and talk to what you believe to be your relatives that have passed on , but Tom says, they aren't really your relatives....

Now, my question would be, why wouldn't they be your relatives?


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:47 pm 
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vestal,

Basically because they were fellow IUOCs who temporarily assumed those roles to experience themselves within that PMR experience packet as your relative. The PMR relationship only exists within that PMR experience packet. They have now returned to their normal NPMR experience and no longer have the relationship to you that they assumed under the PMR rule set. If they have so recently returned (i. e. died) that they have not lost their connection to that past PMR role, then they would not be meeting you in this way as they would be in training/treatment or whatever was required to enable them to transition out of that conscious relationship.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 8:06 pm 
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vestal,

Basically because they were fellow IUOCs who temporarily assumed those roles to experience themselves within that PMR experience packet as your relative. The PMR relationship only exists within that PMR experience packet. They have now returned to their normal NPMR experience and no longer have the relationship to you that they assumed under the PMR rule set. If they have so recently returned (i. e. died) that they have not lost their connection to that past PMR role, then they would not be meeting you in this way as they would be in training/treatment or whatever was required to enable them to transition out of that conscious relationship.

Ted
hey Ted! good to hear from ya. Okay, now what about all those countless examples where people have known each other in previous lives over and over again? It's not as if the cord is necessarily severed when one leaves PMR right? I think you even mentioned that you knew a particular person in previous lives before. If it's not you, forgive me. There must be something then that keeps the IUOCs attached to want to experience each other's company in other PMRs.

Also, if the IUOC don't desire any type of relatonship after they pass with a relative who hasn't passed. Then why is there oten communication from those who have passed to those relatives that are still in PMR?

Again, just trying to find commonalities between MBT and other metaphysical teachings, and trying to understand them.


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 10:40 pm 
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vestal,

We are talking different things here. You first asked and I answered previously above:
"Tom says that in the near death experience or when you go to other realities, you see and talk to what you believe to be your relatives that have passed on , but Tom says, they aren't really your relatives....
Now, my question would be, why wouldn't they be your relatives?"

Now you ask:
"what about all those countless examples where people have known each other in previous lives over and over again? It's not as if the cord is necessarily severed when one leaves PMR right?"

You are right in that I have described having such a friend in this PMR packet. That is not the same thing as you first asked about. This is someone with whom I obviously have a continuing relationship, but says nothing about what that relationship is within NPMR. Only that I remember a few PMR lives from the past to some limited degree. If they died in this PMR experience packet, I still would not meet up with them in the sense and for the reasons in your first question and my answer. That we have shared a sequence of PMR lives says nothing about the actual relationship between us within NPMR. We could be partners in some sense with a continuing strong relationship, we could be pupil/teacher in NPMR or we could just be part of a group that works together in PMR repeatedly but have only a limited relationship in NPMR, limited to this frequent sharing of roles within each others PMR excursions.

You finally ask:
"Also, if the IUOC don't desire any type of relatonship after they pass with a relative who hasn't passed. Then why is there oten communication from those who have passed to those relatives that are still in PMR?"

The desire for contact is on the part of the one continuing to experience PMR. If the CS decides that you will obtain value from a message from a departed loved one, perhaps to let you know that all is well, you will experience this message. It will not necessarily actually be a message from the departed loved one but a legitimate in character message none the less. It is not likely that they will contact you from NPMR while you are still within PMR. They are likely in continuing contact with you as you are both within NPMR. But the PMR experience packet is something for you to experience here and now and not to mix up with your continuing NPMR virtual life. The communication can be from someone with whom you do have a continuing NPMR relationship. I asked my deceased sister from 30 or so years earlier, as I have mentioned before, if she had any suggestions for care for my mother with Alzheimer's. She from her vantage point as an IUOC participating in an NPMR VR lifetime and probably by now experiencing another PMR VR lifetime of her own, said no, that that was basically my problem to solve, but did mention something unrelated which we would revisit on my full return to NPMR. Then rather than now to not interfere with my present PMR experience.

All sorts of relationships and communications are possible. Thus I gave you this series of answers. It isn't quite as simple as you are trying to look at it, but it is not so awfully complicated once you understand the possibilities. But there is no value in mixing up interactions across multiple PMR experiences with your actual NPMR VR life. This is typically non productive.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:20 am 
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Vestal.

Those that have transitioned, or those who experience NDE's often sees family and relatives that could have died 30 years ago. They always look the same to them, same cloths and such. Do you think those who have transitioned are going to stay for such a long time just to say hello to a PMR relative? The experience packet will fade away like a dream, it's not as big as we might think. Many of those PMR relatives will already have incarnated into another life, but they still show up in the transition experiences. They are not the real FWAU with free-will, just a virtual simulation. Why? The transitioning can often be very confusing. Seeing relatives being happy and welcoming one is very comforting for the individual, it's just a help, a good one.

Listen to this explorer tape: "The rescue of Patrick, who has died more than 100 years ago, but refuses to accept his death"

He sees all his family, but he died more than 100 years ago. You will understand, that this is an important step in the rehabilitation.

http://www.monroeinstitute.org/download ... series-17/


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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:18 am 
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Thanks Ted for your respone, sorry I was all over the map with my questions, just trying to put it all together.


specialis_sapientia ,
well, from all of the OBE and NDE research I've done all over the years. Once someone enters the non physical, they are able to change their appearance at will. They can look as young as they want or as old as they want. From what I understand, usually they want to appear in such a wa that the family member will recognize them.

Now as far as them waiting around for someone to pass, from what I understand, time flies by incredibly fast in the NPMR. The physical dimension is a very slow motion dimension. That's also why it takes awhile for things to manifest here. For example, Tom and others have mentioned that you have the ability to manifest whatever you want in the NPMR. I also heard this from those that explained their lives between lives... a If you want a car, you got a car. If you want to live in a house on a mountainside by a lake for awhile, you can do that as well.

Here in the PMR you have to work and it takes time to manifest those things. My point is, time is much different in the NPMR than it is here. What is thought of as years here in the PMR is only seconds in the NPRM. I have read many different accounts from many different expert travelers that say this is the case. In fact it's one of the characteristics of the Astral world(NPMR) that they almost all agree on is the time compression.

Here's another different example. Do you ever have a dream where you did such things as go to work, go out with friends after etc, and then you wake up and look at the clock and realize your dream that only about 10 minutes long? Yet the dream itself seemed like hours. Pretty crazy huh. Just another example of time compression.

Plus, you don't always have to reincarnate right away. According to Jonathan Parker who's a low key master metaphysician and has visited many different dimensions during his meditations, there are some people that elect to stay in the NPMR for quite some time before they decide to come back. It's usually your decisioni. You can go back right away or you can attend schools or just have fun in the NPMR for awhile. There's never any rush..... So this is why I don't think relatives waiting around for us would be a big deal.
(I don't want anyone thinking that I'm coming from this from a wishful thinking standpoint. To be honest, I don't have the best relationship with my family, so I would prefer if everyone just moved on).


Now if I remember correctly, Seth says that the past and present exist at the same time just in different frequencies. That's another mind-blowing concept.


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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:59 am 
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I am well aware of the pace of time having a difference between reality frames. Though it is largely incorrect that the dreaming reality is not parallel with our own, it is to a very large degree. It's more than a dream when there are large time discrepancies between the waking - and NPMR state.

I will try to be more clear and outline why "relatives" won't hang around.

- They are rarely connected to you in a deeper way, that constitutes a NPMR relationship.
- The PMR experience packet fades away like a dream, how much energy do you spend on a single dream after it's done?
- The PMR relatives have their own evolution to take care of when they have transitioned, they won't feel very attached to the biological relatives in the prior experience packet. Evolution goes before human PMR thinking and beliefs.
- When you can have almost perfect simulations of the relative welcoming you, why should the consciousness system not make use of it?
- There might not be any rush, but their incentive for them staying longer won't be because of earlier biological relatives
- If you think PMR relatives have a consistent relationship during NPMR, explain why the hundreds of others of fathers, sons, daughters, sons, husbands and mothers aren't there to greet you. It's always the latest family, never more than that.

I completely disagree with Seth (or Jane's expression of Seth with certain limits) on that particular stance. It's not logical.
This might be relevant on that: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2721&start=15

You didn't comment of the Explorer tape, so I assumed you didn't listen to it.

Please do so, you will listen to an actual rescue of a lost man, and you will hear why he sees his relatives. It might be hard-hitting.


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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:24 am 
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I am well aware of the pace of time having a difference between reality frames. Though it is largely incorrect that the dreaming reality is not parallel with our own, it is to a very large degree. It's more than a dream when there are large time discrepancies between the waking - and NPMR state.

I will try to be more clear and outline why "relatives" won't hang around.

- They are rarely connected to you in a deeper way, that constitutes a NPMR relationship.
- The PMR experience packet fades away like a dream, how much energy do you spend on a single dream after it's done?
- The PMR relatives have their own evolution to take care of when they have transitioned, they won't feel very attached to the biological relatives in the prior experience packet. Evolution goes before human PMR thinking and beliefs.
- When you can have almost perfect simulations of the relative welcoming you, why should the consciousness system not make use of it?
- There might not be any rush, but their incentive for them staying longer won't be because of earlier biological relatives
- If you think PMR relatives have a consistent relationship during NPMR, explain why the hundreds of others of fathers, sons, daughters, sons, husbands and mothers aren't there to greet you. It's always the latest family, never more than that.

I completely disagree with Seth (or Jane's expression of Seth with certain limits) on that particular stance. It's not logical.
This might be relevant on that: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2721&start=15

You didn't comment of the Explorer tape, so I assumed you didn't listen to it.

Please do so, you will listen to an actual rescue of a lost man, and you will hear why he sees his relatives. It might be hard-hitting.

I'm not saying that you would see relatives from tons of lifetimes. I'm talking about that immediate lifetime. I'm sure the "love" bond would diminish over lifetimes, but I can see the possibility of seeing your relatives that have passed from your last lifetime, IF they haven't entereed into a new PMR.

I really don't have a stance on the whole Past is concurrent with the future concept. Just relaying the info that I've heard from Seth and other extensive meditators/explorers. Who really knows. but I can regarding your comment on Seth's comment not seeming "logical" is that there are plenty of scientists that
would say that the concept of "there is no death" isn't logical either.


What I mean by the dream reality having different time compression than our own is that often you will have a dream and do things that normally would take a full 8 hour day in PMR, but after going through those same events in a dream, you realize that only a few minutes has passed. So you ask yourself, how were you able to compress that 8 hours of activity in only a few minutes time. That's all I was trying to get at.

I'll listen to that recording, but then who's to say that it's just not the way that he's interpreting the experience. There may be other experiences that one reads or hears about that's just the opposite, so I guess the bottom line is that none of us will know FOR SURE, until we ourselves die. Tom's interpretation of his out of body experiences and rescues seem to be different than John's which may be different than Jane's etc....I guess we will never truly know for sure until we experience it ourselves..Otherwise it's just interpretation. Who knows, perhaps Tom and other out of body travelers are all such different experiences so that they themselves can make more sense of it. So perhaps the real truth will never been known until we ourselves pass on. ....


Last edited by vestal on Sun May 09, 2010 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:46 am 
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I think you guys are forgetting something important: FREE WILL.

I cannot say Vestal is wrong, but for sure information is handled by smart databases.

There are groups of IUOCs that with their free will, like to stick together and continuously reincarnate as a group.

So, an attachment to or detachment from another IUOC is also a FREE WILL action. An attachment to a particular FWAU experience can also be a FREE WILL choice (that's the problem with what we called "ghosts").

True, our nature (as pure un-contaminated) tends to be free with no attachment (I also talk from my experiences, I noticed I am much less attached in NPMR than in PMR (now getting less attached in PMR as well)), but it is also my choice.

I wanna stay in contact with my daughter's IUOC after I die, no matter how it is supposed to be. But yet, how can I know what's really going to happen later on?

It will be my choice if I decide to contact the IUOC of one of you guys, later on.

Note to Vestal: Hope you don't get offended, but comments like "Nobody knows ...", or "equalizing" comments are typical of ego. Your oms (open minded skeptic) analysis can allow you to discover who makes more sense. I think Tom better discovered how reality works. There are certainly others better than him as well. But some know more than others for sure. Somebody really knows. Some people know better, but still you have the right basement, the best is to experience it by yourself.

Clau

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Last edited by soprano on Sun May 09, 2010 12:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:49 am 
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oops, for some reason my last message cut off. I was going to say that perhaps the only way we would able to get to to the bottom of this is to lay out the experiences of those's who've had NPMR experiences.

For example. Finding out why the experiences of Tom's intepretation is different than William Buhlman and why William's is different than Tom's and why Robert Bruce's is different than Tom's etc...and it goes on and on.... The problem I have is that William and Robert and other NPMR explorers really go into depth of what they experienced in NPMR. I really wish Tom would put out a good sized book detailing much of what he's experienceed in the NPMR. He never really shares that, although he very lightly touches on it in interviews sometimes. Tom rarely touches on his own NPMR experiences, which makes one pondering after finishing his books is, "okay, where's the specific experiences that led to this theory".... I think it's moreso important for Tom, because if you are going to present a theory BASED on your experiences, then you need to let people know how EXACTLY the specific experiences got you there.
This is another subject I know, but I think that a book like this could help with his credibility, otherwise, it's all heresay......Just providing open-minded skepticism here.

I just look for commonalities. I say for example, "Okay, so this person and this person and this person and this person have all brought back the same info about NPMR, they must be on to something. But when one NPMR explorer says something different than 10 other NPMR explorers, then I begin to question that one person.


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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:53 am 
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I am listening to the # 17 tape and have stopped momentarily to ask about the 'double Capricorn' comment in the tape. Can anyone add specifics to that 'light configuration' ?


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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:56 am 
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I just look for commonalities. I say for example, "Okay, so this person and this person and this person and this person have all brought back the same info about NPMR, they must be on to something. But when one NPMR explorer says something different than 10 other NPMR explorers, then I begin to question that one person.
It is also possible that one being is just more advanced than others and the 9 others share some common beliefs and could not get out of some of those beliefs. If you understand that the limits of information are unbelievable (everything is accomplished by information), and our perceptions and interpretations are limited, what are the limits of information evolution, or Consciousness evolution?

Clau

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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 12:01 pm 
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I am listening to the # 17 tape and have stopped momentarily to ask about the 'double Capricorn' comment in the tape. Can anyone add specifics to that 'light configuration' ?
This is what I could find:

"Astrologers frequently see charts where both the Sun and Moon of a person's natal chart are located in one particular sign. I've decided to begin a series of articles focusing on when this happens in each of the signs, a further expansion of and an exploration of an article I had written some time ago.

When someone speaks of being a "Double ________" (any sign of the Zodiac could be inserted in the blank) it is another way of saying that both the Sun and The Moon were in the same Sign at the moment of birth. This would always happen for a birth exactly at the New Moon, for example, and on either side of the New Moon for the period of time that the Moon remains in the same sign as the Sun.

The birth (natal) chart would confirm that the Sun and the Moon share the same Sign. The implications of such an arrangement would be a relatively congruous combination of the anticipated energies. This serves to amplify and dramatically emphasize the impact of the given sign in person's chart and in his or her life.

The Sign placement of the Sun suggests the general energetic focus of life purpose, the end to which we feel driven. The Moon represents the character of our psychological needs -- what we need on an emotional level in order to feel fulfilled.

So when we have both the Luminaries (the Sun and the Moon) in the same Zodiac Sign, we would expect a highly focused energy, a relatively well-defined direction that the individual will be inclined to follow during his or her lifetime. When both Luminaries share the same sign, we see arguably the two most important points in the Horoscope operating along very much the same lines. It gives us a sense of relatively "pure" astrological energies."


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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 12:01 pm 
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Quote:
I just look for commonalities. I say for example, "Okay, so this person and this person and this person and this person have all brought back the same info about NPMR, they must be on to something. But when one NPMR explorer says something different than 10 other NPMR explorers, then I begin to question that one person.
It is also possible that one being is just more advanced than others and the 9 others share some common beliefs and could not get out of some of those beliefs. If you understand that the limits of information are unbelievable (everything is accomplished by information), and our perceptions and interpretations are limited, what are the limits of information evolution, or Consciousness evolution?

Clau
Hey Clau,
but see that's where the difficulty comes from. What would make more person more advanced than the others? And who's to say who's more advanced and who's not? I don't even know if it's my place to even say who I think is more advanced. As that would be completely ego driven and high entropy.

I mean, perhaps a meditator in india who's spent countless thousands of hours in meditation exploring NPMR would be more advanced than ALL of us in his knowledge of what it's all about....


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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 12:37 pm 
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Hey Clau,
but see that's where the difficulty comes from. What would make more person more advanced than the others? And who's to say who's more advanced and who's not? I don't even know if it's my place to even say who I think is more advanced. As that would be completely ego driven and high entropy.

I mean, perhaps a meditator in india who's spent countless thousands of hours in meditation exploring NPMR would be more advanced than ALL of us in his knowledge of what it's all about....
When you use your own judgement to perceive somebody more advanced than somebody else in understanding, there is no ego involved nor high entropy. Why would judging by itself mean disorder? Judging, actually puts order. You may judge that water is better for your health than vodka. You may judge that you can learn more from Tom than from Mike Tyson (unless you are into boxing).

A meditator in India may advance in experience, but his interpretation may be limited if he did not study or analyzed how information works, for example. It is good, though to analyze different perspectives (e.g. from people in the West as in the East). What you are doing is good. You read from different authors and were able to find certain commonalities.

Each interpretation is limited by the interpreter. A more bigger picture perspective (like Tom's) has less limitations than others with a smaller perspective. I don't know how the East is advancing now but you can see now in the West how for some of us the interest in understanding realities, virtual realities, information, etc. is growing, specially with the help of the Internet. There won't be no more East and West also because of the Internet.

Claudio

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