Preface: I have not read MBT (yet), but have watched a couple hours worth of lectures from yourself (Dr. Campbell) on MBT as well as many videos from Robert Monroe. I have an elementary knowledge and understanding of physics (introductory-level college classes formally, plus years of personal study) and an extremely open and creative mind. I'm young (22), naive, and genuinely curious on this topic because like you I'm searching for the 'big' picture. I truly would like to see your theories as truth and hope that existence really is that multi-faceted, at this point I just can't get past a skepticism I cannot control.
Argument: What tangible connections does this theory have with the universe in which we live in? I'll explain why it's important that you must make this connection (whether or not it's impossible in your theory).
I completely understand the notion that you cannot prove the subjective when limited to the realm of the objective (physical universe), but some distinct connection must be made before the 'Big Theory' here can be ruled valid. Science has proven that magnetic forces and electromagnetic impulses can control a human's mind to the point where they truly do believe in their mind that they are somewhere 'else', astral projecting, remote viewing, etc, and furthermore that is is both possible and probable that someone creative and intelligent can replicate these signals within their own mind. Who's to say that you're just enjoying deep thought and "provocative meditation" when you explore these other dimensions, and drawing what you would call tangible conclusions from them? Measurable and proven science has an answer that says all of it could simply be a figment of your imagination...your theories seem to have no real retaliation to this other than "you must experience it to understand it". What if experiencing it simply means learning how to meditate deeply and wander in your own imagination? There is no bottom line, there is nothing tangible, there is nothing to actually make you believe that what you're experiencing is "real". I can prove that all of us live in our physical universe, you cannot prove that we all exist somewhere else. This is a problem with your theory.
I enjoyed listening to you speak and truly do analyze these thoughts with an open mind (and will soon begin meditation), and I don't even really see this topic as being a 'Negative Rant'. I believe that experiencing this level of meditation and exploration of the mind is something that can benefit anybody, even if for the simple reason to demonstrate that the entire physical world can be reduced to the size of a pin-prick and that consciousness is truly the big picture.
My problem comes in when you try to assert this meditation as something real and tangible. Yes, you say that the only way to study it is to experience it, but you are speaking as if it were tangible. You're putting it into a theory...an idea...something to study...something to prove. You believe that you truly are traveling to different frames of dimension, that you're transcending the physical consciousness of our universe, that there certainly is somewhere for your consciousness to go after physical death. Whether you know that it's real or not, we have measured that we can physically induce the exact same feelings through tangible and testable evidence. Your theories have no tangibility that can be tested, because experiencing it is something that in all likelihood something that is generated by your brain. You truly think and believe that you're traveling through space and different worlds, speaking with other spirits, exploring probability outcomes of the past and future, etc. What is there to say then against the argument: it is all simply something generated by your brain that you truly believe? Belief is a powerful term and is something that is studied, and the studies do not help support what you propose.
An example of my argument? I'll use lucid dreaming, both from studies and my personal experience with it. For starters, I understand the differences between dreaming and being conscious, that's not the point. Let's say for example that a person is extremely skilled in becoming aware while dreaming. You're in a dream, realize you're dreaming, and consciousness hits. Now you have control over the dream, can see where you are, everything feels real, when you wake up you feel like you actually experienced it. You close your eyes in the dream and imagine that you're in Nazi occupied Germany (just because this is an example you used). You can live through that dream and change history (because it's something you control). You can let Hitler live and see what happens, you can travel to the day where it was said he killed himself and witness it to see if it were really true, you can view the probable outcomes of how these events will change the future. The point is, it's just something your imagination and consciousness creates.
Your work is great for understanding the true power of the mind, exploring the imagination, and fully utilizing our consciousness...something 99.99% of people do not do. But there is nothing in these theories that actually supports these ideas as something actual. I can spend months learning meditation and OBE and get to the point where I'm traveling through space, I do believe that. But at the end of the day, when I 'come back' to my physical body, nothing actually happened aside from some mental stimulation.
This theory is hard because there really is no way to prove it, and I don't see any way of possibly connecting it to the physical universe. I understand the physical universe is the smaller piece of a much larger puzzle...in your theory. At this point I would place consciousness in our physical universe, leaving no bigger picture, no billion multiverses all with different outcomes. Probable outcomes are just something generated by using the advanced powers of our minds and imaginations (which most people don't do). In your mind you can see what the world might have been if Hitler survived and WWII was won by Germany, but there is no way to prove that things really would have ended up that way if Hitler had lived. It's just an outcome generated by your mind. Sure anything could have happened, but that's not how it works. One thing did happen, exploring all other outcomes is pointless because those outcomes did not happen, and will never happen. The universe is finite, something you would agree with. It's just a mental exercise that can help improve your perception on life and how you use the free will that you have.
For your theory to become valid I believe some tie-in to the physical universe we live in now must be proven. You cannot prove that all of us live in this multidimensional grand universe, but that is what you claim. Where else would we all go when we die?
It is clear that you are extremely intelligent, and that only supports the notion that it's very possible your imagination came up with all of these ideas and structured them formally, logically, and physically. Ideas meaning the "experiences" you've had in other dimensions of consciousness. I don't want you to feel insulted by my arguments, I'm not a person in the mainstream arguing that you and your thoughts crazy. I'd say that you're crazy intelligent (using crazy as slang), and that your intelligence supplies you with reasons to support what you experience as a result of the deep connection you have with your mind and consciousness. Everything you say makes perfect logical sense to me, but I'd be curious as to the response you'd have to a statement like: this is all a theory created by utilizing your intelligence and exploration of what the mind really can be, not what it actually is. Your theories, studies, and arguments do make progress in understanding what we as humans can get out of our minds, they don't explain any "bigger picture" though. I'm still very open to the possibility that when we die, our consciousness is cut off and ceases to exist, just like it begins when we're physically born. You've closed that possibility, and I suppose that's where the endless debate begins. (As a side note, I am not an atheist)
I truly want to believe, it's just at this point my mind is conflicted with skepticism. Any response is appreciated, and others can feel free to chime in their opinions as well. I apologize for the length of the post, and doubly apologize for any fragmented sentences or incomplete thoughts/arguments...I only proofread once and I'm still just a student. I'm sure there are many flaws in a lot of the arguments I've made here, so I understand if you can't touch on everything.
*Random off-topic question: How is consciousness determined? You say that even an oyster has consciousness because it has free will to move around. Are there "less intelligent" and "more intelligent" forms of consciousness? What happen's to a dog's consciousness when it's physical body dies? It just "floats around" waiting for a less entropic state to present itself? You've said multiple times that every person has the ability to view these extra dimensions...this is something that requires an immense amount of mind control. Bacterium, dogs, oysters, etc do not have any control over their minds in these regards; they are not intelligent and therefore cannot experience these dimensions. Shouldn't they be able to according to your theory?
Last edited by SUP3RNOVA on Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.