The IUOC in relation to the individual self

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twcjr
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The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by twcjr »

The following exchange recently took place. I thought it would be of interest to the forum:

Nathan: Tom, you say we are a projection of a fragment of our individuated consciousness. So does that mean that there is a large part of ourselves existing in NPMR that the average PMR resident isn't aware of? Are we really like a leaf to our individuated consciousness' tree? So that means that there is a large part of ourselves that we aren't aware of? How big is that part in relation to our PMR fragment awareness? That is quite a thought to ponder-- I have no idea who or what I am! Is that larger part where our intuition comes from?
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Tom: Nathan, let me modify the metaphor a little. Look at a leaf from a silver maple tree -- it has multiple projections like fingers from a hand. Let's say that Nathan, with his unique history and experience, is one of those still growing projections... -- part of a whole leaf that contains the experience of each of its projections. The tree this leaf is connected to the Larger consciousness System. Just a metaphor, but perhaps one that you will find useful.
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Ramon: Tom, would you say that the awareness we have as the focal point of our current personality (the I of oneself that receives the data) is, in fact, the same awareness that is the I of our IUOC? Or at least one focal point of it? In turn, wou...ld the awareness of our IUOC be but one focal point of the LCS' total awareness? One continuos stream from the top down simply passing through various filters and constraints creating the illusion of separation within the one. As we grow up, are we simply expanding the scope of our awareness back up the chain?

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Tom: Ramon, different metaphors are not so much more right or more wrong as they are more or less useful to a given individual. The top down model/metaphor sorts us from higher to lower levels and functions in a cascade of dependency like parent and child. The simplest model has no levels -- it is simply the LCS manifesting whatever it needs to further its evolution and development. It bubbles us up into existence from the historical database (or from scratch) along with guides and PMRs and whatever else is necessary to most effectively facilitate consciousness evolution. Just the LCS and subsets/expressions of the LCS. One level, one thing -- consciousness and all the information and learning and data it has accumulated. Or perhaps, more poetically, a self optimizing (evolving) consciousness system with a good memory and a good imagination.
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Ramon: Tom has mentioned this "bubbling up" concept before and it creates a conflict in my thinking and understanding of reality as I have come to understand it personally.
I long ago came t...o grips with the fact that "Ramon," as a temporary personality in PMR, is transient and impermanent. "Ramon" is just a title that is given to the subset containing all the data "I" have accumulated in this lifetime/experience packet. At birth, all I (Ramon) came in with was awareness, potential, and the free will to develop this awareness/potential however I choose. When I die, "Ramon" is finished, wrapped up. Yes, the data is recorded and persists in the historical record but I have always taken it that the individuated unit of consciousness, that is the source of the awareness/potential/free will, and all of the data it has collected over the course of many packets (including Ramon as data of course) persists as a separate and distinct entity (though still just an artificially bounded subset) within and of AUM.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding Tom, but it seems as if this bubbling up concept insinuates that even the individuated unit of consciousness is dissolved and called back up and doesn't persist consistently and indefinitely as a separate entity with awareness and free will. This seems different to me than how he used to describe the process. As he said though, he is describing it in the simplest way here. I'm comfortable with the fact that the only fundamental reality, of existence and beingness, is AUM so either way I'm good.
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Yessin: My thoughts "Bubbles up" is just a metaphor, obviously, for what happens when TLCS wants to facilitate it's own evolution. And if the path of Ramon, with all his lifetimes, have been learning experiences or potential learning experiences,... the historical record which that is important for TLCS to grow more from and to make more change from. And that's basically what we all are, a present mechanism of the whole: a constant choice-making observer, and a historical record, we call that "individual". TLCS is the only separate entity with awareness and free will
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Tom: You are both correct in your thinking.

The consciousness system has free will -- freewill is necessary for consciousness. Little and big you, as an individual character such as Ramon and as an individual IUOC (defined by the historical data of your experience within virtual realities) are always a potentiality within the larger consciousness system. This is more accurate than saying that you are an independent piece of the LCS – you are not independent, you are one with the LCS – you have the potential to be independent, to have an independent freewill, within a virtual reality within the LCS. Your independent free will requires a virtual reality. Otherwise you are simply data, a potentiality within the LCS. The LCS has free will and you are one with it, not independent or separate from it.

From the historical database, the LCS selects a historical individual, like Ramon, or a sequence of historical characters that have progressed through multiple lifetimes, like Ramon's IUOC. To this information, the LCS adds a freewill -- which means it inserts this Ramon and/or IUOC into a virtual reality where it can make free choices within an evolving decision space appropriate to their ability/quality/awareness. Recall that consciousness itself is the only thing that is fundamental and that everything else is virtual. This “everything else” includes all structured (within the bounds of some sort of rule-set) realities where experiential interaction takes place. All experiential realities are virtual.


Consciousness creates the structure. The structure defines the reality, and the reality creates the possibility for an interactive experience between subsets of consciousness. The quality of the subset of consciousness (as specified by its history) and the structural bounds defining the reality together determine the available decision space and the nature of possible interactions. Some examples of virtual realities from our point of view: PMRs, dreams, where you end up after dying in a PMR, OOBE "locales", NPMR in general.

The historical record of these subsets or entities grows or evolves as choices are made and their intent is expressed. What is gained by a subset of consciousness (either Ramon or his IUOC) participating in a virtual reality is a new historical record that (thinking positively) accumulates quality (reduces entropy) as it engages in exercising its freewill intent.

To this point we have used language that implies that Ramon and his IUOC are two different entities. Assuming that Ramon is a subset of his IUOC, both he and his IUOC could each be considered individual subsets of consciousness with a history and could be “bubbled up” or be chosen by the LCS to engage in a virtual reality appropriate to their evolutionary needs. However, that assumption of separateness seems little more than a habit of PMR thinking when one considers that Ramon is a representative of his IUOC. Ramon participates in this PMR virtual reality as a manifestation of his IUOC, and as such he brings with him all the quality and history that his IUOC has to offer at the time. He is, in more technical terms, a specific instance of his IUOC that is restricted to abide by the PMR rule-set. As Ramon experiences and chooses in PMR, his IUOC collects the data and integrates it in real time.

1) If that IOUC is simply collecting data to be processed by the LCS, it is no more than a history file in the process of having data uploaded to it. 2) If that IOUC is making freewill decisions and choices within one or more virtual realties that subsume PMR then it has two or more tracks of evolution running at the same time that may influence each other. For example, two separate experience packets in PMR at the same time (that may or may not interact) plus the IUOC actively interacting acting with one or each of them would constitute three tracks of evolution running at the same time. 3) If that IOUC is making freewill decisions and choices within one or more virtual realties that are independent of PMR then it has two or more tracks of evolution running at the same time that do not directly interact or influence each other. For example, two separate experience packets each in a separate PMR plus the IUOC is engaged in some other virtual reality that has nothing to do with either PMR packet would constitute three independent tracks of simultaneous evolution. All configurations/combinations of 1, 2, and 3 are possible; and several are probably used very commonly, however, I suspect that each specific instance is individually optimized. No doubt, the LCS implements whatever seems like the best use of available resources to further the systems evolution in the long run.

1) represents the simplest arrangement, and thus one that is probably used often, especially in the beginning stages of consciousness evolution. 2) is probably more common for a lower entropy consciousness and 3) is not very efficient use of system resources unless more than one independent subject is being learned at a time. Consciousness evolution, because of its cumulative nature, is usually considered a singular subject that is better approached serially than in parallel. Of course, there are always exceptions and special cases.

The bottom line is that there is no fixed one answer to how the IUOC relates to the individual PMR character – the system is intelligent, aware, and flexible enough to optimize the huge array of possible choices and processes always available within a large complex digital information system. We humans don’t like uncertainty – we tend to develop closed solutions for every problem – its simpler that way. People need metaphors they can easily grasp and feel comfortable with – as we grow our understanding, our metaphors change.
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Tom
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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by Justin »

Thanks for posting this.

It seems that all of life's Big questions/answers can be summed up by saying: If "it" supports the evolution of consciousness then "it" is or has the potential to be, and if "it" does not support the evolution of consciousness then "it" is not or will at some point cease to be.
-"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find... you get what you need"
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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by msagansk »

There is a lot to digest in that message, I've had to read it over several times because I keep getting more out of it that I didn't see before. It seems like every so often, a post comes along that expands my understanding of MBT to a whole new level and I have to spend some time digesting new metaphors.

Let's take an example of an IUOC in 2), with a FWAU in NPMR and a FWAU in this PMR. Let's say the FWAU in this PMR is me, typing away at the computer screen. Let's say I go to sleep and dream: I am now in a different virtual reality in NPMR -> Has my FWAU in PMR been temporarily suspended, or has it been lifted of its restrictions to the PMR rule-set and is now operational in the NPMR dream reality frame, or am I now the FWAU that was already in NPMR?

Now let's say I die in this PMR, how much is different when compared to falling asleep in this context? (apart from it being temporary versus slightly less temporary)

It is hard to conceptualize being one with the whole thing yet also separate. To me, the separator seems to be free will. But, having a "me" (IUOC) that has multiple free wills interacting in parallel (now that is an assumption, perhaps it is serial due to varying sizes of delta-T or DELTA-T as Tom might have suggested at the end of his post) makes it tough to see the interaction.
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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by Ted Vollers »

It is all the same IUOC that is 'you' throughout.

It goes through cycles of blocks of delta t of the fundamental system, the Consciousness System. How they intersperse we don't necessarily know and it does not matter. There may be more or less sections of blocks within the cycle as Tom describes the options 1, 2, 3. For convenience and simplicity I will assume the following as a common situation and describe the cycle in relative detail.

A large block of fundamental delta t's, most of the total cycle, consists of that IUOC functioning as an integral part of AUM within the meta reality of AUM's existence. It does not experience consciousness nor possess free will. AUM experiences the free will and consciousness. The IUOC has no memory of these delta t's and how it functions. It is one with AUM, The One consciousness and has no identity as an IUOC.

A much smaller block of fundamental delta t's, but consisting of many smaller sub blocks, consists of that IUOC functioning as an FWAU within the VR of NPMR which is another meta reality. During each of these fundamental delta t's the IUOC is subject to the rule set of which ever NPMR it participates in. It receives data over the RWW from TBC and processes it, interpreting this data subjectively and sending out its reply back to TBC which acts as a processing hub and distributes it to the other participating IUOCs within that NPMR VR. This steam of data is continually moving. This interaction is spread out over all of these blocks of NPMR associated delta ts including allowing for data transit time. These interactions slowly, compared to PMR, reduce the entropy of the IUOC we are discussing. During this block of fundamental delta t's, that IUOC possesses free will and experiences consciousness of its interactions with other FWAUs who also participate in that particular NPMR. Within the meta reality of this VR, the IUOC/FWAU has its own identity/memory and history, including the past histories to the extent that it retains them from the PMR experiences it has previously experienced and re integrated into itself afterwards.

A still much smaller single block within the total cycle being described consists of that IUOC functioning as yet another FWAU within the VR of PMR which is yet another and separate meta reality. During this block of these fundamental delta ts the IUOC is subject to the rule set of the PMR that it participates in. It receives data over the RWW from TBC which is calculating ahead the PMR VR data based upon probability. This data has been further detailed for that particular IUOC/FWAU by the VRRE aspect of TBC which personalizes the data and gives it the exact point of view of that FWAU. This incoming data is processed by the FWAU and free will choices made and then responses sent out over the RWW again. This processing and choosing and responding is spread out over multiple cycles of the type that we are describing. The interpretation of the incoming data is subjective as frequently described. The IUOC as an FWAU figures it out, interprets it, as best it can and responds to it as best it can. As this experience is again part of a VR meta reality, that of a PMR, the IUOC/FWAU has free will and consciousness subject to the rule set of that PMR. The relatively high intensity of the interactions and the rapid feedback within the PMR experience produces a faster entropy reduction than for the NPMR experience of the same IUOC.

This is the end of the cycle and you as the IUOC go back to the beginning of the cycle above and do it over again. These individual blocks of delta t fundamental increments are so small and fast that the experience appears continuous within that particular VR experience of either NPMR or PMR. All of this is underlaid and powered by the Consciousness System, the consciousness 'engine' that provides the power and functioning of it all and is not a virtual reality or a meta reality but the base upon which it is all built. This is all of the vast field of reality cells with their data of perturbed and unperturbed cells which through their interaction, much like a cellular automaton, do all of the 'work' and are the digital reality of which we as IUOCs/FWAUs consist as digital minds/consciousnesses. This is what is outlined in greater detail in the Wiki as Tom's model and by Tom in his books. Here it is just very compact. Tom and I have discussed all of this over much time and I believe that it is all accurately described according to his model.

This is a more technical and detailed description of what Tom said above and if he feels that any of it is unclear or incorrect, he will no doubt make appropriate connections. I hope that it clarifies your questions.

Ted
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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by msagansk »

Thanks Ted, that helps. What is still nagging me though, is that if the IUOC is "me" throughout, how is the NPMR version of me making free will choices without the PMR me being aware of it? What if "I" wanted to make a different choice?

My best guess is that I would probably never make a better choice because the NPMR me has a bigger picture and is more aware.

Presumably, as I currently understand it, someone as aware as Tom IS aware of what the other parts of him (in other VRs) are doing. He can switch his awareness back and forth between VRs, automate/program certain decisions, etc.

Perhaps not being aware of NPMR decisions is not so different from being on "autopilot" or unconsciously acting out many day-to-day decisions in PMR without really being aware of what is going on.
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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by Ted Vollers »

Mike,

What you are not catching on to is that your digital base or mind as an IUOC could be compared to a computer on your desk running multiple programs connected to the Internet or WWW, comparable to the RWW. It runs the operating system which is the base reality. Unlike an operating system on your desk top computer, this particular operating system, also known as AUM, is the main deal as it generates The One Conciousness while for the operating system on your desk top computer to use so much of the system resources would be highly inefficient. Frequently the operating system/AUM turns things over to a subsidiary program called NPMR which makes the IUOC/computer a smaller consciousness that communicates and interacts with other IUOC/computers also running the NPMR program elsewhere with which it communicates and interacts with over the WWW/RWW. Then less frequently the operating system/AUM turns the system over to another subsidiary program called PMR which makes the IUOC/computer another smaller consciousness that communicates and interacts with other IUOC/computers also running the PMR program elsewhere with which it communicates and interacts with over the WWW/RWW.

While these jumpings back and forth from operating system/AUM to program NPMR and program PMR are so fast that the consciousnesses involved do not notice the discontinuities, they are not truly simultaneous. What the NPMR consciousness segment or FWAU is doing is not necessarily available to the PMR consciousness segment/FWAU. They can be so aware as in Tom's case through much experimentation and hard work. The several FWAUs, how ever many there are, are fully independent functioning in different meta realities with different instances of free will which come from being in those meta realities.

If this does not help, I will try again.

Ted
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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by msagansk »

So to take the analogy further, when I go to sleep, AUM/TBC loads up a dream program for me (as a FWAU).

When I execute the meditation protocol, if I am proficient enough, I can potentially manipulate which program I am running and aware of (using my Intent). I could switch over to a running an NPMR program. I could be seen as a power user or maybe even a hacker. If I'm really good I don't even need to meditate and just directly interface with my Intent.

All of my actions are saved in a history file within the IUOC.

Feel free to correct me at any point, but this is where it gets hazier for me:

If I'm a really good power user I can see what the other programs are doing on the computer (become aware of the other FWAUs that are part of my IUOC). Would a really good power user be able to have control over the free will of the other FWAU's? I'm guessing not since you say they are independant - yet Tom has said that he can program other aspects of himself. Perhaps these other aspects are not other FWAU's.

When I die, does the free will within PMR merge with the free will within NPMR? That is how I have thought it could be with "the afterlife", based on what I've read, but I don't know and have very little experience.
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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by Ted Vollers »

Mike,

No one can control your free will. That arises because your IUOC participating as an FWAU can make its own decision for its own reasons within itself as to how it will take the incoming data and based upon that put out its outgoing data. That is how it will make its decision and where you have your free will. If you do not accept input data coming to you, it can do nothing to you. You are an isolated digital mind existing on the RWW. If you choose to reject an input item, it can't force its way in. You might be tricked by misunderstanding its source and nature but it isn't the same as someone coming to the door of your house with a battering ram and a gun and forcing their way into your PMR house. If you are wary of just accepting any input, they cannot get to you as you function in a VR.

That does not say that as you function much of the time as part of AUM you are not accessible to AUM. If you are a really bad guy and need to be rebooted to start up the developmental scale again, you are always accessible to AUM. You cannot become a hacker or power user and do things that are not acceptable to AUM/the LCS. What you do within a VR is always mediated through TBC which is part of AUM. You can ask for access to information and your Intent enters into your obtaining permission or not. If your Intent is good and it is considered to be of potential value to have that access, it will tend to be granted. You will not be permitted to do things beyond your ability as in giving a hammer to a baby and setting out the prize china around it. What Tom is always describing is a unified and cooperative system where intelligence and consciousness can be applied wherever needed. Parts of the system interact with other parts in order to produce a continual improvement in the whole as to Quality of Consciousness and reduced entropy. To a certain extent your Intent as Tom uses the term amounts to a qualification form for you as an IUOC that says to the LCS how much you are capable of and how much you are to be trusted. A sort of combination drivers license and credit score and merit badge collection. A sort of testimonial as to whether you help old people across the street and protect children and infants from predatory types and are in general a 'good scout' or not.

I understand no reason that your detail memories are or must be stored within your IUOC. That would be a duplication as there are data bases for actualized and unactualized, past and future data bases in which this information is stored and accessible at need. Your IUOC is more your executive functioning aspect which includes personality traits that have proven of value in past experience and become a part of your being. I have no understanding that for instance you must remember things like how your significant other looked silhouetted by the light behind them as they came to you to make love or such. That is there in the data bases. But how to love someone with all your being, if you can do so, is stored as something at the being level within your IUOC as a part of you and is available in the next PMR as appropriate.

When Tom refers to programming a part of himself to do things, he is not talking about controlling his NPMR self from here as his PMR self. Remember that there are vastly many time cycles for a VR compared to a fraction of a second for thought. Not every aspect of your functioning has to be conscious so Tom is referring to setting up something like an internal alarm that activates a set of activities periodically that he wishes to perform as his PMR self during the times that he is not conscious of. It is self programming, not other programming.

You don't die but instead your PMR FWAU simply disconnects from the PMR VR data stream and there is a conscious merger with your NPMR FWAU. The entropy reduction gains that you have made have been continually made available to all aspects of yourself as they are changes to your self as a digital consciousness IUOC. Tom seems to describe it a lot like closing a book after you have read it and taking an appropriate amount of time to meditate and assimilate what you learned from reading that book into yourself. Valuable aspects developed within your personality can become permanent parts of the whole. And depending upon your needs, your PMR FWAU may receive a lot to a little ceremony and transitional support to ease the merger and not traumatize you with abruptness if you are not prepared for the transition.

Did I hit it all?

Ted
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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by msagansk »

Yes, the dots all seem to be connecting for me at this point in time. :)

Thank you for being patient and thoughtful.
Mike
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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by pgtrue »

Thank you for that
LOVE is the answer

peace
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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by Jeff »

msagansk wrote:There is a lot to digest in that message, I've had to read it over several times because I keep getting more out of it that I didn't see before. It seems like every so often, a post comes along that expands my understanding of MBT to a whole new level and I have to spend some time digesting new metaphors.

Let's take an example of an IUOC in 2), with a FWAU in NPMR and a FWAU in this PMR. Let's say the FWAU in this PMR is me, typing away at the computer screen. Let's say I go to sleep and dream: I am now in a different virtual reality in NPMR -> Has my FWAU in PMR been temporarily suspended, or has it been lifted of its restrictions to the PMR rule-set and is now operational in the NPMR dream reality frame, or am I now the FWAU that was already in NPMR?

Now let's say I die in this PMR, how much is different when compared to falling asleep in this context? (apart from it being temporary versus slightly less temporary)

It is hard to conceptualize being one with the whole thing yet also separate. To me, the separator seems to be free will. But, having a "me" (IUOC) that has multiple free wills interacting in parallel (now that is an assumption, perhaps it is serial due to varying sizes of delta-T or DELTA-T as Tom might have suggested at the end of his post) makes it tough to see the interaction.
Mike,
I haven't read through everything yet in this thread (and I willl) ; but you are touching on the things that I too spend time pondering and reading about.I have found some things that are relevant and I hope that they square w/ what has been posted so far.

I wouldn't say that our FWAU is suspended totally.IMHO I think it is not commonly recognized that when we say "I was dreaming" this is a 'retroactive determination' made from the perspective the 'waking' PMR FWAU-unless of course one becomes lucid in the dream.( In my personal hypothesis,lucidity is an integration of the waking memory bank with a dreaming self.Some dreaming selves are temorary;while others can be more continuous)Even so, paying close attention to the content of 'regular' dreams will reveal that long term memories related to the PMR FWAU still function -as do others qualities to greater and lesser degrees- like the feeling of agency,language usage and sensory binding among some examples.

We may also feel as if we have known a person or place forever;only to realize after waking that this was not so. This can only be realized by comparison of the dream event in relation to our chain of waking PMR memory. It is here that an integration occurs and we say "I" was dreaming and take ownership of the dream memory and deem it false from the PMR FWAU perspective.

Evidence from scientific laboratory experiments in hypnosis support that consciousness forms dissociated chains of memory that run parallel as opposed to intermitent.(ernest hilgard)For example a suitable 'highly hypnotizable subject' can be subjected to an increasing level of pain. The executive ego self can be hypnotized to dissociate from the pain.However,the pain experience is recorded as it occurs and can be recovered by the "Hidden Observer Technique"This part-not experienced by the ego- can report the pain as it progresses.This can be done by 'automatic writing' and other special techniques. In people with multiple personality disorder different dissociated aspects form their own chain of continuous memory and experience. Therapy seeks to 'reintegrate' them.

My point is that what we think of as a self is actually something that is in flux.It is a relative perspective that dissociates and integrates.Freewill seems to be constant but the decision spaces seem to expand and contract. I think it must be the IUOC level that shifts these amnesic barriers from relative VR perspectives. My best guess is that Tom's fundamental assumption of evolution is the driving factor.For instance in MPD,personalities are thought to be created to deal with and sequester trauma-a survival strategy.Some MPD patients also manifest an "internal self helper" - a spiritual aspect experienced that 'bubbles up' to assist the total being.(R.B.Allison)Subpersonalities are said to exist in a 'thought space' during control by the primary personality.They may or may not have knowledge of the others-who can be experienced as spatially separate. I bring this up because I think it provides a 'real world' window into this subject matter.
Last edited by Jeff on Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

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Msagansk: Let's say I go to sleep and dream: I am now in a different virtual reality in NPMR -> Has my FWAU in PMR been temporarily suspended, or has it been lifted of its restrictions to the PMR rule-set and is now operational in the NPMR dream reality frame, or am I now the FWAU that was already in NPMR?

Tom: You are a FWAU in PMR1 getting a data-stream defining your physical bodies interactions within PMR1 environment. You fall asleep. Now, you are that same FWAU in PMR1 getting a very different data-stream defining your interactions within the dream environment while getting little to no data defining your PMR1 environment. Next, assume that you are having an OBE exploring the dark side of the moon or some other PMR2 but also parallel processing PMR1 simultaneously as you walk through a park in PMR1. In this case, you, that same FWAU in PMR1, get a data-stream that contains data from both of these reality frames (OBE and PMR1) simultaneously.

PMR1 is the base reality for your PMR1 experiences and all your excursions beyond PMR1 since all the data goes to the FWAU attached to PMR1. All the data represents the FWAUs experience in multiple realities. The OBE in PMR2 does not generate a separate FWAU, it simply modifies the data-stream going to the FWAU attached to PMR1. Thus, if someone throws cold water on you and then slaps your physical face as you walk in the park in PMR1, all the other reality frames will disappear and you will find yourself wet and startled in PMR1. If, while exploring PMR2 you get eaten by a monster, that reality vanishes and you are back in PMR1. If while walking in the park in PMR1 you get eaten by a monster (or run over by a truck) all local realities (dreams, OBE in PMR2 and PMR1) vanish and you are back in NPMR within the VR that helps you deal with the exit out of PMR1 and plan your next experience packet in PMR1.

Msagansk: how is the NPMR version of me making free will choices without the PMR me being aware of it? What if "I" wanted to make a different choice? My best guess is that I would probably never make a better choice because the NPMR me has a bigger picture and is more aware.

Tom: Think of a subroutine within a larger program. And the subroutine says: “How does the larger program make choices without the subroutine being aware of it? You, through your intellect, may wish to make a different choice while the you in NPMR simply expresses the present you at the being level.

Tom
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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by Tronar »

I am following this discussion with great interest, since I am pondering the same questions.

But something I am still struggling with has unfortunately not been answered yet:
What happens to MY consciousness the moment I fall asleep and do not (consciously at least) dream, thus do not get a data-stream from my dream environment?

From my understanding, being aware is an integral part of the definition of consciousness. So what happens exactly to my consciousness the moment I stop being aware, because I am sound asleep or my PMR body is under the influence from an anesthesia or something similar.

In that state my PMR FWAU can at least not make any free will decisions, right?
Or if it should continue to do so, where is the point when I have no recollection whatsoever of what I have experienced and decided in that unaware time period? If my Higher-Self (NPMR FWAU) should take over in such a situation, than maybe it is growing its consciousness (reducing entropy) during that time. But my PMR FWAU subroutine seems to be kind of out of the loop, right?

This somehow relates to the question, what we are all doing during the unconscious parts of our sleep? Giving our consciousness a breather by shutting it off for a period of time? Giving the complex energy connection between our FWAU and the experience unit (body) time for a refresh?

I have also read, that we would all go out of body during sleep and do things like attending a "sleepers school" or doing other stuff in NPMR. Again, if I have no awareness during the process and no recollection of my activity after waking up, what is the purpose of that? Is there still data written to my personal PMR FWAU file, I just do not have read-access to?
If so, why not directly write that data to the next higher level (NPMR FWAU?), which is aware of the activity? And if it should be done this way, am I (PMR FWAU) then really attending the sleepers school or doing other activity in NPMR or isn't it the higher level FWAU doing that activity and my PMR FWAU is just temporarily supended, so I (at the PMR level of my consciousness) am actually doing nothing during my periods of unconsciousness?

Sorry to be so picky about the details, but since consciousness seems to be all there is, I am quite puzzled with the fact, that we all give up this core element of our existence on a daily basis for at least some amount of time.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
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Ted Vollers
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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by Ted Vollers »

Tronar,

It is part of the PMR rule set, how this VR works, that your virtual body requires rest. Therefore you sleep. Part of this time goes into dreams. Part of this time goes into 'schools' as you note. Your consciousness as an IUOC continues uninterrupted within NPMR where you do not sleep. Your IUOC continues to do its share as part of AUM. You, as your IUOC, are the real 'you' so you continue and do not disappear because this particular PMR consciousness stream has gaps in it. Beyond this I cannot tell you what your individual consciousness does during the total period of sleep. That is an individual and variable matter. PMR science has long known that your unconscious periods of sleep are interspersed with 'dream' states. As a PMR function, look there for a description of what time is normally spent in this state. I know no more and suspect that there is no more to be known.

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Re: The IUOC in relation to the individual self

Post by bette »

Also Tronar Consciousness is fundamental so it doesn't "go" anywhere. Consciousness as a nonphysical digital information system that you are a bit of just IS. Your identity as Tronar comes and goes but Consciousness is constant.
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