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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:58 pm 
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DECLINE of EMPIRES: The Signs of Decay
Chalmers Johnson, author of Blowback, Sorrows of Empire and Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic , talks about the similarities in the decline of the Roman and Soviet empires and the signs that the U.S. empire is exhibiting the same symptoms: overextension, corruption and the inability to reform.

Chalmers Johnson was president of the Japan Policy Research Institute, a non-profit research and public affairs organization devoted to public education concerning Japan and international relations in the Pacific. http://www.jpri.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2CCs-x9q9U&NR=1

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Last edited by Lena on Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Ted Vollers wrote:So based upon my comments here about our friendly people in charge, I might some dark night finding a group of big, armed men at my door with an invitation to come spend some time talking to our dear uncle, explaining why I don't love them any more?

Ted
We're little people of no consequence. Engage in organizing and educating people though, and yes, you (or anyone) are likely to have problems.

-Montana


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:02 pm 
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Lumpy wrote:50% income tax in the U.K. if you make over 150k? WOW! That's a lot.
For here in the USA while it is still the USA and not officially the Citizens United States of America, I think people making less than 250k should be at 25% and those making more that 250k including investment earning more up to a million should be at 35% with those making up and 10 million at 40% and past that shot, no not really. Probably 45%. Or no taxes on earnings including investments until one person earns over $25k or a family over $50k then a flat rate no limit to earnings being taxes so everyone pays equally.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:18 pm 
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Lena wrote:DECLINE of EMPIRES: The Signs of Decay
Chalmers Johnson, author of Blowback, Sorrows of Empire and Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic , talks about the similarities in the decline of the Roman and Soviet empires and the signs that the U.S. empire is exhibiting the same symptoms: overextension, corruption and the inability to reform.

Chalmers Johnson was president of the Japan Policy Research Institute, a non-profit research and public affairs organization devoted to public education concerning Japan and international relations in the Pacific. http://www.jpri.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2CCs-x9q9U&NR=1
Thanks Lena, That was interesting!

-Montana


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:25 pm 
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Another video.
Chalmers Johnson on American Hedgemony
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfJNFSYF ... re=related

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:55 pm 
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bette wrote:
Lumpy wrote:50% income tax in the U.K. if you make over 150k? WOW! That's a lot.
For here in the USA while it is still the USA and not officially the Citizens United States of America, I think people making less than 250k should be at 25% and those making more that 250k including investment earning more up to a million should be at 35% with those making up and 10 million at 40% and past that shot, no not really. Probably 45%. Or no taxes on earnings including investments until one person earns over $25k or a family over $50k then a flat rate no limit to earnings being taxes so everyone pays equally.
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Bette
That seems a little high too me. 25% for the bottom of the barrel? People who make minimum wage can barely survive now with how it is. The cost of living is too high for the government to take that much out of the little guys pockets. I think that our tax rates right now are pretty good, besides the super weathly being able to use loopholes to pay less taxes than everyone else.

I couldn't even imagine having rates as high as in the U.K. or those places over 50%. That is robbery.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:13 pm 
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That's why I don't think any tax on earnings until one is earning over a certain amount is a good idea.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:04 pm 
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Steve Forbes' flat tax was the best idea I've heard. I think it was 17% for anyone making over 36,000 dollars a year, but no taxes on income under that. It might have to be a little higher now. It's the best answer, but of course the middle wealthy would certainly fight it tooth and nail since there would be no exemptions other than that first 36,000 dollars.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:15 pm 
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bette wrote:That's why I don't think any tax on earnings until one is earning over a certain amount is a good idea.
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Bette
I agree. It does sound like a good idea, or having it at a very low percentage for the lowest income earners. I do like the idea of a flat tax rate with tax brackets depending on income level also. We really need a tax overhaul to make it fair for everybody.

I kind of like this idea from Ron Paul. http://www.truthistreason.net/ron-paul- ... t-programs

You can stay in government programs if you want to, or opt out and pay a flat tax of around 10%.

I really like a lot of Ron Pauls stances on things. He is about the only repub running for president that I would vote for that I have seen so far.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:57 pm 
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That is very unrealistic but certainly to be liked by those with really big incomes. They get off for a fraction of the cost otherwise and have so much money that they are willing to take on all risks of health problems, etc. The really big problems of foreign invasion and such are taken care of at a bargain rate.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:49 pm 
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Lumpy wrote: That seems a little high too me. 25% for the bottom of the barrel? People who make minimum wage can barely survive now with how it is. The cost of living is too high for the government to take that much out of the little guys pockets. I think that our tax rates right now are pretty good, besides the super weathly being able to use loopholes to pay less taxes than everyone else.

I couldn't even imagine having rates as high as in the U.K. or those places over 50%. That is robbery.
Lumpy,

It covers more, than basic medicine for everyone. On a top of that, search for social services and benefits a government provides for the citizens of those countries. Think about a number of holidays and vacation days working people enjoy too.

Lena

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Ted Vollers wrote:That is very unrealistic but certainly to be liked by those with really big incomes. They get off for a fraction of the cost otherwise and have so much money that they are willing to take on all risks of health problems, etc. The really big problems of foreign invasion and such are taken care of at a bargain rate.

Ted
I kind of agree. Having a better tax system and smaller government spending is not unrealistic though, and it wouldn't mean everyone would have to fend for themselves so to speak. A lot of these types of ideas are based on principle, not just getting less money taken away from you from the government. Most people would rather not get taxed out the ying yang for little in return like we have now. They are clearly not being efficient at all on either side of the fence.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:59 pm 
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Lena wrote:
Lumpy wrote: That seems a little high too me. 25% for the bottom of the barrel? People who make minimum wage can barely survive now with how it is. The cost of living is too high for the government to take that much out of the little guys pockets. I think that our tax rates right now are pretty good, besides the super weathly being able to use loopholes to pay less taxes than everyone else.

I couldn't even imagine having rates as high as in the U.K. or those places over 50%. That is robbery.
Lumpy,

It covers more, than basic medicine for everyone. On a top of that, search for social services and benefits a government provides for the citizens of those countries. Think about a number of holidays and vacation days working people enjoy too.

Lena
What do the number of holidays and vacation days have to do with taxes? I need to study up on politics in those places to say anything more. 50% just seems kind of high.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:16 pm 
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Very much true, Lena. They talk about our health care system being wonderful. Perhaps for the very most rich who can afford anything. For the average citizen, social services and health care is much better and does not have big co pays. An Italian restaurant owner married to a Swedish woman and then became a Swedish citizen told my cousin when he was visiting over there that his wife developed cancer. He said that in Italy, the first thing that would have gone would have been their money in the bank, then their car and then their home. Under the government health plan, all of her medical services were covered, there were no co pays or direct expenses and she recovered with their still having their money, their car and their house. He said that he no longer considered any complaint about the tax rate and he would be first in line to pay the taxes. When they retire, they live better, get higher retirement income, than we do here. The big difference is that their doctors and business owners and managers don't live fantastically better than the regular citizen working as an employee. Better, but not it gated communities and living in high style.

I had to take early, reduced, social security after caring for my parents for nearly 10 years with the economy and my damaged health. Their money was spent, despite their having SS and Medicare and a supplementary insurance policy and while I worked, it was from home and part time. There was no chance of finding work at my age and condition. Only when I reached 65 and could get on Medicare did I have health coverage. I had to take one of those Medicare advantage packages where you don't pay extra for medicine or supplementary insurance coverage but you have fairly high co pays. Then I went into the hospital twice, the second time thanks to one of my doctors. Experience quickly makes a believer in Scandinavian and European style social services of you. Don't believe any American politician who tells you it is better here because taxes are less and our health care system is wonderful. He lies. He may not know better but what he says is worth the price of oats that have passed through the horse once already.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:39 pm 
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Ted Vollers wrote:Very much true, Lena. They talk about our health care system being wonderful. Perhaps for the very most rich who can afford anything. For the average citizen, social services and health care is much better and does not have big co pays. An Italian restaurant owner married to a Swedish woman and then became a Swedish citizen told my cousin when he was visiting over there that his wife developed cancer. He said that in Italy, the first thing that would have gone would have been their money in the bank, then their car and then their home. Under the government health plan, all of her medical services were covered, there were no co pays or direct expenses and she recovered with their still having their money, their car and their house. He said that he no longer considered any complaint about the tax rate and he would be first in line to pay the taxes. When they retire, they live better, get higher retirement income, than we do here. The big difference is that their doctors and business owners and managers don't live fantastically better than the regular citizen working as an employee. Better, but not it gated communities and living in high style.

I had to take early, reduced, social security after caring for my parents for nearly 10 years with the economy and my damaged health. Their money was spent, despite their having SS and Medicare and a supplementary insurance policy and while I worked, it was from home and part time. There was no chance of finding work at my age and condition. Only when I reached 65 and could get on Medicare did I have health coverage. I had to take one of those Medicare advantage packages where you don't pay extra for medicine or supplementary insurance coverage but you have fairly high co pays. Then I went into the hospital twice, the second time thanks to one of my doctors. Experience quickly makes a believer in Scandinavian and European style social services of you. Don't believe any American politician who tells you it is better here because taxes are less and our health care system is wonderful. He lies. He may not know better but what he says is worth the price of oats that have passed through the horse once already.

Ted
So do you think people should be forced into a government controled healthcare system, or have a choice to participate? and, Should those who choose not to participate have to pay taxes into government healthcare when they wish to go the private healthcare route instead, which they will have to pay for of course?

*Added incase you read this before what I'm about to put*

What sectors of healthcare do you feel should be completely government run, and which should be private? I have read a few things on how completely government run ones don't work very well and have a lot of downsides.


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