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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:09 pm 
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Or for that matter, other scientists of any type e.g. medical doctors? If so, can anyone name some of them? I'm interested for my own personal study, not to try to "out" a hard working professional who has a reputation to protect.

After reading the Seth material decades ago, I remembered that Robert Butts (Jane's husband who took dictation for her books) mentioned being in contact with scientists.

As the years have passed and various theories about probable and parallel universes and the simultaneous nature of time seem to have gained acceptance, I've wondered to what extent the scientists presenting these ideas were influenced by Seth's books. Discovering that Tom Campbell is one of those who, in collaboration with Robert Monroe, used her work as a guideline was delightful!

I had assumed that no scientist would have the courage to admit to being influenced by the Seth books because they would face instant rejection for any ideas that they acknowledged came from a trance medium, or her guiding "entity" - how wonderful to discover that I'm wrong!


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:27 pm 
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Welcome aboard. I hope that this is not your only interest in being here. I do not know if they would be of any help, but a search for Seth with twcjr as author brings up 18 posts. You might check this out. I am aware of Tom being in touch with a few scientists and mathematicians who are coming to have some connection and belief perhaps in Tom's work. I am not aware of his knowledge of others in the past influenced by Seth other than what you already know about. There are many working as mainstream scientists who are in their work finding or being led to Consciousness as the base paradigm providing guidance to work of various types. I am personally only aware of the one 'path' of influence from Seth to Robert Monroe to Tom and Dennis who worked for Robert Monroe as his in house scientists in developing what became the product of The Monroe Institute. That does not mean that Tom does not know more. This in general and by observation is a wide spread project originating in NPMR with the intent of changing the paradigm of science back to the ancient one of Consciousness as the base of existence. Who knows what paths that general project has taken.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:47 pm 
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Thanks, Ted, for your prompt response! No, it isn't my only interest in Tom's work or this site. But we each have our own "way in" to remembering that we are consciousness first and physical beings second (or whatever!) and Seth's material was one of the first lights at the end of the tunnel of my ignorance. So the connection between that work, Robert Monroe's and Tom's represents a sort of closing of a circle in my own information gathering process - or perhaps I should say, a return along a spiral to a new position of understanding. Thanks again for taking the time to get back to me!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:25 am 
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Interested,

The relationship of Robert Monroe's 'model' of reality to that of Carlos Castanedas books on the Naguals world of Don Juan has also been discussed here. There are many parallels in this description that says there was truth to Castanedas books which some deny. He probably was in touch with a centuries long South American shamanic tradition. Perhaps not included in your path but there are many parallel paths. The discussions of reality here on this board are in depth and extensive.

Ted


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:26 am 
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Quote:
Discovering that Tom Campbell is one of those who, in collaboration with Robert Monroe, used her work as a guideline was delightful!
Hi Interested and please accept my welcome along with Ted's.

You do realize the data I have quoted from you above is not correct and that they didn't do that? I don't recall anywhere that they did that anyways and I think I would. Not to say that either or both might have some knowledge of her work but thinking it was used in their work as a guideline could be incorrent I believe although of it is mind opening information so if it was already in place there would be the synthesis or use of it as that is how it works. I just think "guideline" is too much personally.
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Welcome again.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:33 pm 
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Hi, Bette - thank you for your response. The reason I used the word "guideline" to describe Robert Monroe and Tom Campbell's use of Jane Robert's writings (as received by Jane speaking in a trance for Seth) is based on the following from My Big TOE, chapter 10, page 88 of my edition.

Tom wrote:

"Finally we ran across a candidate model - a place to start. Though imperfect, it was more or less rational, consistent, and coherent most of the time - that made it much better than the rest. Its explanations and descriptions were not complete, nor necessarily a place to end up, but it did provide a theoretical basis from which to tentatively and skeptically begin. This model came to us in the form of Seth Speaks, by Jane Roberts. That the material was channeled was not a problem for us. By then, we were all personally familiar with the nonphysical and its host of sentient beings. In fact, it was a plus. . .

We began to spend much of our training time in the lab testing and interpreting Seth's concepts, and procuring information from out nonphysical sources. We worked on these issues for several years, slowly gaining ground."

So I think that describing Jane's/Seth's influence as an important guideline to their work is an accurate description.

Thanks again for your input.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:02 am 
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Yeah, your probably correct. Seth Speaks was on my path too but it has never "felt" that "important" to MBT to me as I have experienced Tom speaking. :)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:55 am 
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Quote:
Or for that matter, other scientists of any type e.g. medical doctors? If so, can anyone name some of them? I'm interested for my own personal study, not to try to "out" a hard working professional who has a reputation to protect.
It's not directly related to your question, but you might enjoy checking out Brian Weiss, an important Miami psychotherapist who became convinced of NPMR through past life regressions and channeling that spontaneously occurred during therapy with clients, and he eventually decided to bite the bullet and out himself.

He sounds very much like Tom when he speaks in language and perspective.

http://www.brianweiss.com/

The key to MBTOE is to acknowledge the many paths and triggers that open our awareness of NPMR, such as Seth speaks, then quickly move on to study of the model at the mental level, doing meditation and PSI, and applying the theory to reaching for better intent in our daily life.

The carrot in this is the possibility of directly experiencing NPMR yourself, rather than reading about a third hand report, which is kind of like spiritual porn.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:13 am 
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Thanks to Ted, Bette and Kroeran for your replies!

In response to Kroeran's comment:
Quote:
"It's not directly related to your question, but you might enjoy checking out Brian Weiss, an important Miami psychotherapist who became convinced of NPMR through past life regressions and channeling that spontaneously occurred during therapy with clients, and he eventually decided to bite the bullet and out himself."
Regarding Brian Weiss, yes, I have read a couple of his books including Many Lives, Many Masters. It's wonderful that he was openminded enough to explore and validate his clients' spontaneous recall of other lifetimes.

Ted, I did read Carlos Casteneda's books at about the same time I started reading Jane Roberts. I haven't reread them despite the fact that they are fascinating because I eventually encountered a book by Carlos' ex-wife, who stated that he claimed parentage of the son whom she conceived with another man when she and Carlos were separated, even though he knew the child was not his. He was involved with the boy for the first years of his life and then fell out of touch with him.

And in her book Sorcerer's Apprentice, Amy Wallace exposed the manipulations and abuse that she and other women who were part of his inner circle suffered. For Amy this went on for twenty years.

Of course, he cultivated an evasive life. I'm not saying that everything he wrote was a lie, but it's clear that his approach as an anthropologist was subsumed by a need to create a cult of mystery around himself. Definitely this is opposite to the scientific approach recommended by people lIke Tom Campbell, Robert Monroe and Waldo Vieira. And Jane Roberts almost certainly could have formed a cult around herself and Seth due to people's fascination, but probably Seth would have stopped communicating if she had done so!

It's hard to retain any respect for someone who abuses knowledge and exploits someone else's spiritual culture in such a manner. Obviously, power went to his head. His legacy remains suspect to me despite the power of his early books - such a shame.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:51 am 
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It's hard to retain any respect for someone who abuses knowledge and exploits someone else's spiritual culture in such a manner. Obviously, power went to his head. His legacy remains suspect to me despite the power of his early books - such a shame.
if a man looks up and points at a shooting star, and then you look up and see the shooting star yourself, the observation that he drops his pants and asks for directions to Atlantis, is irrelevant.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:11 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
It's hard to retain any respect for someone who abuses knowledge and exploits someone else's spiritual culture in such a manner. Obviously, power went to his head. His legacy remains suspect to me despite the power of his early books - such a shame.
if a man looks up and points at a shooting star, and then you look up and see the shooting star yourself, the observation that he drops his pants and asks for directions to Atlantis, is irrelevant.
Huh Randy? lol, I was just about to quote you and put this as thought of the day but controlled myself. :)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:09 pm 
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if you are staring into the eyes of a one legged orangutan wearing SM clothing, and he looks behind you, you may suspect that someone has walked up behind you, and you may wish to turn around

if you are staring into the eyes of ten one legged orangutans wearing SM clothing, and they all look behind you at the same time, you can be certain that something is going on back there, even before you look. ; - )

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:10 pm 
If you see a dog meditating you probably are an one legged orangutan who's wearing SM clothing and sniffin' sugar! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:36 pm 
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Thanks for your input.
Quote:
if a man looks up and points at a shooting star, and then you look up and see the shooting star yourself, the observation that he drops his pants and asks for directions to Atlantis, is irrelevant.
Quote:
if you are staring into the eyes of a one legged orangutan wearing SM clothing, and he looks behind you, you may suspect that someone has walked up behind you, and you may wish to turn around

if you are staring into the eyes of ten one legged orangutans wearing SM clothing, and they all look behind you at the same time, you can be certain that something is going on back there, even before you look. ; - )
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Funny! But what if the man isn't actually pointing at a shooting star but claims that he is? Then looking up is a waste of time. And if he lies about shooting stars while trying to divert your attention from the fact that he's dropping his pants, run - or you may get screwed! As quite a few people who got close to him were.

As for the orangutans, whether one or ten, just because a bunch of apes look in the same direction doesn't mean that we all should. Multiplying gullible behavior doesn't prove its worth.

I don't respect people who harm and deceive others with mind games and manipulation, even if ten orangutans look at the abuser and say that he's got The Truth. The fact of his abuse undermines his credibility, to me.

If you want to look at shooting stars and ignore dropped pants, or mimic strangely attired primates, how does that further
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"an attitude of scientific pragmatism that appreciates the elegance of fundamental truth"?
To me, Carlos was very interested in "appearing to be grown", which is why he lied and created a cult around himself. He was a fine story teller though, and I was deeply impressed with what he wrote until people started revealing "the man behind the curtain".

Am I throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Perhaps, but if people want to learn about shaman from an honest source, I suggest Michael Harner's The Way of the Shaman. Less entertaining story telling than Carlos', but much more in keeping with an attitude of scientific pragmatism, with respect for another culture's spiritual traditions (and no dropped pants that I'm aware of).


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:17 am 
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Hi Interested.

Just to answer your question my mind came up with Fred Alan Wolf. You can check him out on http://www.fredalanwolf.com/.

This is a small excerpt from his front page
Quote:
Fred Alan Wolf is a physicist, writer, and lecturer who earned his Ph.D. in theoretical physics at UCLA in 1963. He continues to write, lecture throughout the world, and conduct research on the relationship of quantum physics to consciousness. He is the National Book Award Winning author of Taking the Quantum Leap. He is a member of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Collegium of Scholars.


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