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 Post subject: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:01 am 
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I've been contemplating a few basic questions regarding MBT over the past few weeks or so. I feel that some clarification regarding these questions will help me to better absorb the information presented in MBT.

The basic question weighing on my mind at the moment-- "better" PMRs. "Better" meaning more efficient means for entropy reduction. Tom mentions in passing other PMRs that are all good (and some that are all bad). If there are better PMRs offering more opportunities for entropy reduction and experiencing love, what are we doing here on Earth? If our ultimate goal is increasing QoC, why bother with mediocre or bad PMRs?

I realize that AUM, being a "good scientist," must explore all possibilities. However, if there is a PMR where IUOC incarnations spend most of their time stabbing and eating each other, wouldn't it be wise to just do away with it and focus on the good PMRs?


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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:19 am 
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Could you give a specific reference to what Tom is saying that you are referring to? I know that references were made to variations in PMRs but I would like to see Tom's actual words. Tom has also described this PMR as having a good reputation for the quality of IUOCs that it produces, despite functioning at a relative kindergarten level because of so many new IUOCs. It is supposedly considered to be a desirable place, one might say a prestige place, to graduate from. There are apparently considerations beside pleasantness that are significant.

It is an iffy proposition to try and second guess AUM as to the most efficient research approach to take as speaking here from the 'peanut gallery'. [But then you may not know about Buffalo Bob and the Howdy Doody show.]

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:35 am 
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Quote:
I've been contemplating a few basic questions regarding MBT over the past few weeks or so. I feel that some clarification regarding these questions will help me to better absorb the information presented in MBT.

The basic question weighing on my mind at the moment-- "better" PMRs. "Better" meaning more efficient means for entropy reduction. Tom mentions in passing other PMRs that are all good (and some that are all bad). If there are better PMRs offering more opportunities for entropy reduction and experiencing love, what are we doing here on Earth? If our ultimate goal is increasing QoC, why bother with mediocre or bad PMRs?

I realize that AUM, being a "good scientist," must explore all possibilities. However, if there is a PMR where IUOC incarnations spend most of their time stabbing and eating each other, wouldn't it be wise to just do away with it and focus on the good PMRs?
year,

One answer (there are probably several) is approximately the same as why you don't let the children use the good china, why you don't let your teen-age son drive the Cadillac.

It's not absolutely clear that when you use the terms good and bad above you mean by them 'comfortable and cozy and clean' (or not) or efficient (or not). This one here can have an effect of focusing one's attention... which would make it inclined to efficiency.

Just my notions,

Montana


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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:01 am 
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ayearhasgone,

If everything is data and it's 1 or 0, love or fear, good or bad, light or dark and say you just experience 1 of these and master 1 of these, do you think you’re complete? If you master the 1 and the 0 then you become ……….maybe complete? maybe a creator yourself ?

thynes


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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:33 am 
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Quote:
Could you give a specific reference to what Tom is saying that you are referring to? I know that references were made to variations in PMRs but I would like to see Tom's actual words.
I can't seem to find the exact passage, but here is an excerpt regarding NPMR--

http://books.google.com/books?id=RYHtBP ... &q&f=false

"The good, the bad, and the ugly," as Tom says.
Quote:
Tom has also described this PMR as having a good reputation for the quality of IUOCs that it produces, despite functioning at a relative kindergarten level because of so many new IUOCs. It is supposedly considered to be a desirable place, one might say a prestige place, to graduate from. There are apparently considerations beside pleasantness that are significant.
I remember Monroe discussing the fact that this PMR has a good reputation. This puzzles me a bit because I'm not sure that the entropy of the human race is actually decreasing... we're a complicated bunch.

Montana,
Quote:
It's not absolutely clear that when you use the terms good and bad above you mean by them 'comfortable and cozy and clean' (or not) or efficient (or not). This one here can have an effect of focusing one's attention... which would make it inclined to efficiency.
I don't think it's necessarily about comfort... Say, for example, there's a PMR where children are taught about how to be more loving at a very young age.


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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:43 am 
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I remember Monroe discussing the fact that this PMR has a good reputation. This puzzles me a bit because I'm not sure that the entropy of the human race is actually decreasing... we're a complicated bunch.
It's not a closed system. If some graduate and new toddlers are being brought in, the average entropy level of our species may not be going down. It's hard to see from this perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:45 am 
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Mike beat me to it.

For one thing, you cannot worry about the entropy of the human race. New IUOCs enter the pool all the time so that is what brings the level down continually to remain at a kindergarten level. Besides, it takes many passes through the PMR experience before graduation. Development is not all that fast.

That link that you posted went to the first page, nowhere within the text. Please try again.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:48 am 
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So, the entropy of humans as a species is irrelevant-- it's the entropy of the individual IUOCs that are entering and "graduating" continuously that matters. That makes sense, if seen from a big picture perspective.

Let me try the link again.

http://books.google.com/books?id=RYHtBP ... &q&f=false

If that doesn't work, it's page 473. The entire page is the start of an aside that describes the variation between entities in NPMR (the good, the bad, and the ugly).


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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:58 am 
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There is a toolbar at the top of the page.
Left to "Add to my library" there is a chain-like symbol which will give you the link to where you currently are so you can share it.
http://books.google.de/books?id=RYHtBPi ... &q&f=false

Or you write it like this for such a long link.


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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:10 pm 
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That link refers to 'inhabitants' of NPMRs and NPMRn particularly. It does not discuss differences between PMRs. PMRs were what you asked about.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:02 pm 
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na


Last edited by Delak on Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:15 am 
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Quote:
That link refers to 'inhabitants' of NPMRs and NPMRn particularly. It does not discuss differences between PMRs. PMRs were what you asked about.

Ted
Unfortunately I can't seem to find the passage regarding Tom's experience of other PMRs... I will keep searching. I believe it is in Section 5, "Experiments AUM already tried" or something rather.


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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:36 pm 
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ayearrhasgone good question i heard tom talk about this he said if there was even a slight posibility that the beings could turn things around it would probablly stay that way. we are free to choose anyway we want in order for this to work it has to be that way. freewill in pmr is a matched set. Josh


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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:11 pm 
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I wasn't really that clear above, so to amend that post, I have heard at least two writers refer to this place as in part a prison planet. Some of the folks that are here were drummed out of better places for misbehavior, intentional or otherwise. Bob Monroe talks about this toward the end of his 'Wednesday evening talk'. I know I have heard words to this effect from another writer on this general topic (of beings of the earth) as well, but can fetch up at the moment who it was. Not all people here are here under those conditions though, apparently. As the tales run, some came to help, some came to hide out, others came to learn... some might well have got here by accident or lottery or chance of some kind.

Here is the second video in a series of several (sorry, not seeing the first) toward the end of which Monroe address the earth gig issue set.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEMzONZupCA

Pop some popcorn and enjoy!

Note: Tom may or may not agree with everything that is said there. I can't think of anything off hand that he would disagree with, but he may well word some of it differently.

Montana


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 Post subject: Re: "Better" PMRs
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Quote:
ayearrhasgone good question i heard tom talk about this he said if there was even a slight posibility that the beings could turn things around it would probablly stay that way. we are free to choose anyway we want in order for this to work it has to be that way. freewill in pmr is a matched set. Josh
Hi Josh and welcome to Tom's MBT discussion forums.
Love to you and yours,
Bette

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