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 Post subject: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:50 pm 
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What is the point of competition in PMR? It always feels like a very selfish thing to me and yet it seems to be what gives results.

I'll give 2 examples that happened recently:

1) I take a recreational class in the evenings where there are quite a bit of single people. One thing I noticed is that it feels very competitive and almost every guy in the class wants to talk to the prettiest 2 or 3 girls. It is very similar to a bar or night club dynamic now that I think about it. If a guy is successful and dates the girl, that means that all the other single guys have to suffer and stay single. Ultimately, she is going to marry 1 guy and all the other guys will "lose". You might say that the other guys will eventually marry someone else, but then it would likely be settling. So for one guy to succeed, another guy has to lose.

2) Obama acted very nice in his first debate. The public thought he "lost" the debate because he wasn't showing his fiery side. So in his 2nd and 3rd debates, he acts very tough and combative. The public thinks he won them. Again, much like the first example, he is basically rewarded for selfish behavior of trying to win at the expense of the other person failing.


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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:54 pm 
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In a word, intensity. Intensity of interaction. That is what makes PMR successful as a training tool for IUOCs. So you get intensity of interaction and are given feedback which tells you something about the quality of your interaction. You correct the way that you interacted based upon the feedback. Not in the sense that you make yourself a winner more of the time than the other guy. But in the sense that you optimize the results so that while you have success, you do not deny the other person success for themselves. You share toys and do not run with scissors.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:32 pm 
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while you have success, you do not deny the other person success for themselves. You share toys and do not run with scissors.
But that's what I don't really get. For example if Romney wins the election, obviously that would be denying the "other person success for themselves". And vis versa. If a guy gets the date with the girl, he is not sharing it with anyone else.


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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:07 am 
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The start of a monogamous relationship takes only one man and one woman out of the competition. In this day and age, an uncertain thing. Will it even be monogamous or continue. It does not however prevent the other men and women from 'finding' each other. There is actually a general balancing out of numbers of men and women so this is not really an either or situation. It is rather and either, or, or, or, etc. situation.

In the political situation, it is another matter. There the one side, the right, has already written off specifically, 47% of the population as being such losers and riders upon the dole that they would never vote for the true knights of capitalism, the only ones worth anything. I ran across a quotation from Don Marquis the other day. If you do not know of him, he was an American writer, humorist, journalist and author who died in 1937 at the age of 59. What he said that I thought was noteworthy in today's world was "When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him: 'Whose?' " This is a very pertinent question in today's world. When that great champion of the right to screw over others for profit invented Rommunism, he became wealthy, actually more wealthy, at the expense of those companies which they bought cheap with borrowed money and dismembered for further profit from the pieces and frequently sending the jobs of the companies employees overseas. No, I can't personally say that this is a good way to operate the railroad. A good way to build a country. See for more: http://www.progressive-polemics.com.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:35 am 
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Community you obviously haven't been into dancing lessons where girls are outnumbering the guys 4 to 1 :). They have a real problem finding a guy who wants to learn to dance. They dance most of the times between them. If you want to meet attractive girls go to a dance club. You'll be amazed of how much you will learn about their psychology.

Men don't know where to look. It is simple as that.


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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:22 am 
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Or ingeru19... live with a group of pretty girls for three years while loving and being in a relationship with one of them and watch the interactions between them and the competing guys that come and go. It's like watching a wildlife behaviour documentary.

Obviously the guys and girls are unaware of their obvious behaviour because they are all wrapped up in this mating dance dynamic.

But yes... I used to act and dance in theatre and know exactly what you mean also. Boys tend to think dancing is, to coin a term 'gay'.

As for the political game going down in the US at the moment... I am slightly disgusted at the sniping, spin and general hatred amongst the democrats and republicans. I thought the UK was bad when it came to election time. I don't know enough about the finites of american politics to add anything else. It's only based upon what I see on Facebook and the news.


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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:15 am 
This competition talk is pretty much how this country functions. Fighting for girls, jobs, status, for who looks the best, sounds the best makes the most money and so on. Image and competition among the majority is a good observation, of the big PMR picture. Now with that being said we now have a new science coming into being, that in my view will slowly diminish this behavioral mind set. We for the most part can not change or control anyone but ourselves. I tell myself and other people a lot of the time, if you do not like what one or ones are doing, then do not do it yourself. A lot of the time they look at me with surprise, like why i said such of a thing. You see community it is just natural for most to be this way. Change is very very slow and starts with us first. I find people really notice a sincere change, looking downstream is a great tool to use, in the pursuit of doing the right thing. Fred


Last edited by sabby on Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:31 am 
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I think competition is OK, as long as you can see for yourself, why are you competing? You have to be aware of your intent in this competition game. Nothing new, intent is everything, and action is almost nothing.

Lena

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'Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance.' Confucius.


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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:52 pm 
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Quote:
There is actually a general balancing out of numbers of men and women so this is not really an either or situation. It is rather and either, or, or, or, etc. situation.
With that equation, yes, most people will eventually get married if they want to, but it still looks like most will have to end up settling lower than their ideal.

I like the quote from Marquis...there's an element of truth in that one usually can't do it alone. I don't know much about Romney's background to comment. If you met him, would you show compassion towards him? How would you try to lower his entropy?
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I think competition is OK, as long as you can see for yourself, why are you competing?
I would be competing because I want the same that other people want. It's not any ill will towards others, just that we all happen to have similar desires.
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I tell myself and other people a lot of the time, if you do not like what one or ones are doing, then do not do it yourself.
So you do not go for your desires? If you see a good job is available, you purposely don't apply for it so that someone else will get it? When you see someone you want to date, you purposely stay single so that someone else can date them?


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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:57 pm 
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Community,
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If you met him, would you show compassion towards him? How would you try to lower his entropy?
What is this supposed to mean? Does Romney suffer from some particular problem that he should be receiving compassion? In the general sense that I have compassion for him as an egotistical self serving person with a bad propensity to lie to achieve his aims, a politicians problems, I have compassion for that common problem. Not including to vote for him.

Have you not seen it mentioned that we cannot lower another person's entropy, only work towards lowering our own? That we cannot even accurately detect our, or others, entropy levels?

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:02 am 
Community, i said nothing about what i liked or disliked. I simply meant if somebody does not like what one is doing, then i suggest to them not to engage in such behavior themselves. I also suggest to ones to find ways that best suit them. It is your freewill to do whatever you care to do, only you can determine what is right for you. The answers to your question, is i think we are all seeking our desires that are personal to us. Mine, my main one, happens to be a search for certain types of knowledge, in particular just how things work. Fred


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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:03 am 
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What is the point of competition in PMR? It always feels like a very selfish thing to me and yet it seems to be what gives results.
There is no point. People compete because their biological processes encourage them to do so. So do animals.

It's all because of flawed biology.
Quote:
1) I take a recreational class in the evenings where there are quite a bit of single people. One thing I noticed is that it feels very competitive and almost every guy in the class wants to talk to the prettiest 2 or 3 girls. It is very similar to a bar or night club dynamic now that I think about it. If a guy is successful and dates the girl, that means that all the other single guys have to suffer and stay single. Ultimately, she is going to marry 1 guy and all the other guys will "lose". You might say that the other guys will eventually marry someone else, but then it would likely be settling. So for one guy to succeed, another guy has to lose.
It really depends on how you define "losing". If by losing you mean the other guys don't get a mate ever again then I guess you can say they lost. But if they eventually found a woman then they didn't lose.

However, if you mean that the other guys didn't get to engage in parasitic behavior and "leech" a good time off one of the more attractive females then I guess you can say they "lost", but it's a hollow defeat because all they lost was one (or a few) orgasms and dopamine releases.
Quote:
2) Obama acted very nice in his first debate. The public thought he "lost" the debate because he wasn't showing his fiery side. So in his 2nd and 3rd debates, he acts very tough and combative. The public thinks he won them. Again, much like the first example, he is basically rewarded for selfish behavior of trying to win at the expense of the other person failing.
Westernized nations encourage and worship "warrior"-types.

Quote:
Or ingeru19... live with a group of pretty girls for three years while loving and being in a relationship with one of them and watch the interactions between them and the competing guys that come and go. It's like watching a wildlife behaviour documentary.

Obviously the guys and girls are unaware of their obvious behaviour because they are all wrapped up in this mating dance dynamic.
That's one of the things that has me dreading coming back to this PMR: Being wrapped up in this ridiculous mating dance as you called it, all over again.

Jealousy. Competition. Supplication. Superficiality.

It's all rather silly.


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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:11 am 
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I want to re-post his even though I posted this a few days ago. It is a post from Ted: If you begin to understand the true meaning of Love (not love) then you understand that competition is just part of our PMR challenge. To evolve your consciousness toward Love is to leave behind competition whose origins are wrapped up in ego.

Let me describe the context of love within which Tom, in my understanding, uses it and equates it with very low entropy. This context is that our existence within Consciousness Space where we exist as IUOCs and as such are integral parts of The One Consciousness as we communicate over the RWW and thus are The One Consciousness. Thus we in concert are and create and are the driving force or Mind behind Consciousness Space in all of its features and functionality. Simultaneously, we are time sharing our beings as IUOCs as virtual selves in order to participate independently within virtual realities such as NPMR and PMR. Tom has spoken of this as an alternate way to view our selves and The One as one integral fractal thing that is in fact every thing and the only thing that exists. When we as individual IUOCs reach the point at which we can comprehend this fractal existence as integral parts of The One Mind/Consciousness and simultaneously as Individuated Units Of Consciousness, engaged in the mutual expression of our existence, developing our individual selves through interaction and simultaneously The One into every more complete expressions of individuality and yet the expression of the power of this One Thing as ever more complete understanding of Itself, reduced entropy. This is the context of 'love' as it is used by Tom. Love of the Whole, this Union, for it's constituent parts and of the constituent parts for each other and of this Union, in recognition of this Union, this integral and mutual relationship

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7020&p=55118&hilit=philia#p55118


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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:38 pm 
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Have you not seen it mentioned that we cannot lower another person's entropy, only work towards lowering our own? That we cannot even accurately detect our, or others, entropy levels?
It may not be your responsibility to lower another's entropy but it is certainly possible to lower someone's entropy by interacting with them. That is the whole point of PMR. It's not really about sitting by yourself thinking of intellectual answers.

So since you cannot accurately detect other's entropy levels, would you say that it is possible that Romney has lower entropy than you or Tom?


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 Post subject: Re: Competition in PMR
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:36 pm 
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It may not be your responsibility to lower another's entropy but it is certainly possible to lower someone's entropy by interacting with them.
You can provide interaction and feedback which might be instrumental in their lowering of their entropy but only they, by relating their side of the interaction with that feedback can actually lower their own entropy. Just as it is your paying attention to your interactions and the resulting feedback that can potentially lower your own entropy. This is a closed process, a loop, for each IUOC. There is a need for 'another' with whom to interact, even if it is only with the environment. But it is within that closed loop of interaction/feedback that an individual can potentially lower its entropy.
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So since you cannot accurately detect other's entropy levels, would you say that it is possible that Romney has lower entropy than you or Tom?
I don't think that I have ever made a comment about Romney's entropy level. I would very readily point out the degree to which Romney's political actions and statements violate the principles based upon MBT which Tom teaches us. Do you have any problem readily seeing how the whole Republican platform and the even more right wing Teabaggers amounts to a violation of the free will of others and a deliberate rejection of the rights of a high percentage of the populace? It comes down in a nutshell to 'I got mine, to hell with you'. The protection of others is largely absent. All are on their own, to sink or swim, and your worth as an individual depends upon your ability to accumulate material wealth and power over others. This is their ideal. Then we can get into the matter of outright lying, saying one thing now to achieve this purpose, winning the right wing vote, and then saying the opposite in order to try to win say the women's or immigrant's votes or some other minority which they have slighted in their original right wing stance. Then thinking that we are so stupid that we do not notice this 'flip-flopping' a la Romney. Have you ever found Tom to not be truthful or caring of others? I am not Tom by any means and am probably high functioning Asperger's as part of the autistic spectrum as I have discussed before. I'm also the admin here so I am not always 'nice' to visitors, returning to them what they are putting out here. If I think you require the Georgia mule treatment to wake you up, you get it between the ears. But I don't think that I lie either nor am I uncaring. But where this puts relative entropy, I make no claim. Entropy level is not just a matter of being a nice guy, if that is part of your thinking. It is a matter of being capable of interacting logically and rationally without unbalancing by religion or ego or any other kind of unreality as opposed to the true nature of things. It includes being able to see the true nature of a situation as opposed to some kind of wishful thinking. Low entropy requires at times that you let the other IUOC learn the hard way because you know that you cannot take the hits for them and teach them some other way. You can teach, provide information, but ultimately learning is something that the individual does.

Ted


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