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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Knowing what I know now (i.e. we are in a virtual reality and virtual bodies, playing this game to grow and become love and improve the quality of our consciousness) I am lost as to what implications this knowledge/truth should have on me as a farther of a 6-year old son. Dozens of questions pop up in my mind: How do I "raise" him in the broadest sense? What do I teach him now? (a lot of generally-accepted knowledge is simply lies, delusion, beliefs, etc.) Do I tell him: "You know, son, your teacher at school does not know her ass from her elbow so you might as well don't listen to what she says"???? (I'm exaggerating on purpose just to get the point across)

Also, in the big scheme of things, we are totally equal! (In fact, he could even be a more advanced/mature IUC than myself) He's 6, I'm 46 but who cares - it's only the difference in the age of our virtual bodies!!:-0
Should I stop being a "father" and just let him do what he wants because he's here to learn his lessons himself, without his parents' interference or what?

I want to do the right thing. Can anyone enlighten me as to what the right thing is in the context of spiritual awareness?

P.S. I wonder if there's any chance Tom could spend some time talking on the subject of kids? If he has done so already, can anyone provide a link to the relevant source, please?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:30 pm 
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I do not have kids, but I do work with kids of all ages on a day to day basis with my work. It does fascinate me what Tom has to say about raising kids, and I apply it to my interactions daily even though they are not "My" kids. His first bit of advice about it is to get rid of your own fears and ego. It is important to keep in mind that kids need guidance and structure. Protect them, give them what they need to succeed, discipline, and teach. But this must come from an ego-free, fear-free intention. Tom talks about when he was young and in NPMR frequently. There came a time where he had to focus on PMR, and stop being in NPMR so much. So that he would "grow up normal", and be able to have a normal life. So teaching big picture is doing so by example, being there when you can and pointing out unseen paths when asked( I saw someone post this earlier somewhere sorry for not quoting.) But never being forceful. So I would say do your best, do it from love. Provide what your kid needs over your own needs, and help equip them for learning the big picture on there own.

This is just what I have picked up on the subject, delving into the videos and other threads on this forum should give you more insights, as well as others that may reply. I hope this was of some help.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:10 pm 
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It does fascinate me what Tom has to say about raising kids, and I apply it to my interactions daily even though they are not "My" kids. His first bit of advice about it is to get rid of your own fears and ego.
Thank you for your input! Do you mean to say that Tom did say something about kids somewhere? If so, could you please provide a link to where he did that?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:12 pm 
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I do not have kids, but I do work with kids of all ages on a day to day basis with my work. It does fascinate me what Tom has to say about raising kids, and I apply it to my interactions daily even though they are not "My" kids. His first bit of advice about it is to get rid of your own fears and ego. It is important to keep in mind that kids need guidance and structure. Protect them, give them what they need to succeed, discipline, and teach. But this must come from an ego-free, fear-free intention. Tom talks about when he was young and in NPMR frequently. There came a time where he had to focus on PMR, and stop being in NPMR so much. So that he would "grow up normal", and be able to have a normal life. So teaching big picture is doing so by example, being there when you can and pointing out unseen paths when asked( I saw someone post this earlier somewhere sorry for not quoting.) But never being forceful. So I would say do your best, do it from love. Provide what your kid needs over your own needs, and help equip them for learning the big picture on there own.

This is just what I have picked up on the subject, delving into the videos and other threads on this forum should give you more insights, as well as others that may reply. I hope this was of some help.
Thank you for your input! Are you saying that Tom did say something about kids somewhere? If so, could you please provide a link to that info?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:52 pm 
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This is short, but it cuts to the chase.

Tom: "The best advice I can give to any parent is to get your own head straight first, then just act natural. Again, it is not so much a matter of what to do as it is a matter of what to be. Without fear, ego, needs, and expectations (since the love and caring for the child is usually a given), you cannot help but be an optimally effective parent. (It is parental ego and fear that creates most of the poor parenting -- not lack of knowledge or information.) You cannot control the environment (culture) they grow up in for very long, so you must help them develop the inner strength and values they need to successfully deal with it and learn from it. Then you must let them go forth and learn in their own way and own time." From this thread


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:00 pm 
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When I was 16 and got my driver's license, I had three accidents with the family car that year, one involved court.

I think it was the second accident where I cut across a gas station parking lot and I look over and this huge tow truck with railway ties on the front of it smash into my side.

I was fine, but I had to make the call home to dad. On the phone I say I've had an accident...and with a bit of panic he asks how I am...I say I am fine. Pause. I say the car is pretty wrecked up...and he says "I don't really care much about the car at this point son."

that sort of moment is like a thousand volts of love through you...and you are changed.

I think if your life is authentically about other, and all the varieties of other, and not the props on the stage, that's the basis of creating a human who will feel compelled to express their life in that way.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:02 pm 
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I wish, that 35 years ago, when my son was born, I knew and understood things, as I do now. You as a parent regret your mistakes and learn from them.

You talk to your kids honestly, but not confuse them. You respect them at any age, and the most important thing - you love them for who they are, i.e. love them unconditionally. You grow with them, learn with them and from them. Your kids can teach you a lot, but you have to be patient and open minded. You trust them, and this is how you teach them to be honest and trust others. You talk to them and listen to them carefully. Never tell them, I told you so. They have to learn, and it means, they have to make their mistakes. If you wish to be a friend with your son, be his father, help him when he needs help, trust his word over anybody's words, be his confidant, but remember never use anything, that he has shared with you against him or at an angry moment to hurt his feelings.

Love your real son, and not one, that you wish him to be, and it will be your guidance to how raise your son.

Lena

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:18 am 
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Lena that was beautiful.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:44 am 
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I think my mom was an excellent parent although, of course, she made her mistakes. Her own mother was terrible to her and I remember my mom crying after talking with my grandmother on the phone - and my mom was in her 40s at the time!

I think her greatest accomplishment was that she didn't repeat the mistakes her mother made. She overcame the bad parenting that was modeled to her which so many people cannot do. No matter the circumstance my mom was always supported me, she always listened to me, and she always helped me. I learned what Love was from her.

That is not to say she didn't point out what she though were my mistakes but she never punished me for them by withdrawing her support and love. And she was capable of changing her mind if she found out she was wrong.

I have a similar memory as Randy with a car accident. It meant the world to me that her concern was for me and not the car or the circumstances of the accident. I was in my 50s when she died and I had been her caretaker (the reversal of roles) for several years. But I still felt the loss of her emotional support keenly when she was gone.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:45 pm 
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My mom seemingly fed me to the wolves. Besides the father, brother, uncles abuse she was indifferent about at best, she actually brought home a man from her Parents Without Partners event supposedly for me to babysit his 4 year old son, I was 13, but who I ended up dating with her approval. She was living vicariously sexually through me, she used to sit with the curtains open to see who would bring me home in the mornings. I live vicariously through my daughter to some extent, but never sexually other than one time she was 16 and I told the singer from a band she was getting a signature from to sign her upper breast. As soon as I said that I realized the connection and completely broke that cycle. He signed her arm. I do think the band guy remembers us though, which was another thing that probably did.

Oh advice on raising kids, don't strike them. Spanking is just not what a Loving parent does. Please.
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:04 am 
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Firstly, I think that none of us can afford to forget that even within the realm of the ‘absolutes’ that the Theory of Everything which you have asserted - viz., ‘we’ ‘are’ ‘in’ ‘a’ ‘virtual’ ‘reality’ and ‘virtual’ ‘bodies’, ‘playing’ ‘this’ ‘game’ ‘to’ ‘grow’ ‘and’ ‘become’ ‘love’ ‘and’ ‘improve’ ‘the’ ‘quality’ ‘of’ ‘our’ ‘consciousness’ - the ‘uncertainty principle’ holds true, as the veracity of each and every one of those words is challengeable.

This puts us all on the horns of the dilemma, even though we may also hold to the Theory of Everything that ‘a lot of generally-accepted knowledge is simply lies, delusion, beliefs, etc.’ and the one that holds that ‘son, your teacher at school does not know her ass from her elbow’.

And, if you will forgive me for ‘putting more words in your mouth’ than you intended should be inferred, ‘in the big scheme of things, we are totally equal!’ Immediately you give an example that it too is a false Theory of Everything. Then, and please again forgive me, you chuck all your good intentions out with the bath-water, by your -
Quote:
‘He’s 6, I’m 46, but who cares …

… Should I stop being a “father” and just let him do what he wants because he’s here to learn his lessons himself, without his parents’ interference or what? …

… I want to do the right thing. Can anyone enlighten me as to what the right thing is in the context of spiritual awareness?’
Well, my view, for whatever it is worth, is that you are already doing the right thing. You are being open-mindedly skeptical of whether you are adequately educated, trained, and experienced, for such an important role as being a father of a son. And, my view, again for whatever it is worth, is that you are adequately educated, trained, and experienced for such a role, as demonstrated by your open-minded skepticism about whether you are. My nightly prayer each day throughout my life has been, simply, that I may be better at fulfilling my callings tomorrow than I was today. I don’t think I ever articulated that prayer within earshot of my daughter, but, guess what, somehow it rubbed off on her, because that is how she lives her life, even to this very day. All the way through school, all the way through college, all the way through university, and now, all the way through her professional and personal callings of, Hospital Nursing Care and Management, looking after her husband, and bringing up their two kids. My life’s motto, if I can call it that, is, ‘onward and upward’, which is only another way of saying my nightly prayer.

I concur completely with Targobaath’s posting of Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:30 pm., but will add a little of my own life-long-learning about this subject, in my concluding paragraph.

Equally, I concur with the posting of specialis sapienta, subject to the same proviso as with Targobaath’s.

As for kroeran’s posting, all I can advise is never get in a car if he is its driver if you value your life. Hehehehe.

I feel the pure love energy in Lena’s posting and am indulging in a little flood of tears as I write this comment. Thank you Lena. I needed that little weep for the sake of my memories of my parents, and their parents, and the sole one of their parents that ever sat me on his knee; and how much I learned from them, mainly, just be the best you can possibly be, today, and the best you can possibly be tomorrow, and the tomorrow after that, and all will be well in the end.

Sainbury has picked up on the very point I want to make at the end. Well done chook. You are a mind reader.

Regarding bette’s post, her courage at being so open is admirable, and also filled with positive constructiveness and demonstrates how resilient we can be even in the face of adversity. My love goes out to you bette. Onward and upward, eh? Same as me!

I slapped my daughter in the face once. I also slapped my wife in the face once. Both times it was because they were becoming hysterical over some trivial thing the other had done. I was raised in a culture where a face slap was considered not only proper in circumstances such as that, but necessary to prevent insane spiral into something worse, such as epileptic fit. Indeed, I’m sure I read it in my mother’s Nursing Care and Management handbook. It did not make me happy that I had to take such action, but neither did it make me happy that things had gotten so bad between them that the relationship had degenerated into them screaming in each others' faces day in day out. Tom is right about ego. Their relationship went downhill because their egos clashed.

My point. I think, is that it isn’t only your relationship with your son that you may have to manage, but also the one between your son and his mother, and between yourself and his mother.

But, hey, if life was easy, everybody would get it right wouldn’t they, and then where would the television and newspaper companies be, with nothing untoward to talk about or write about?

Right, its final paragraph time, and the bit of wisdom that I’d like to chuck in the cooking pot for you, namely the dreaded ‘uncertainty principle’. Way back in my early adulthood I attended a session of a course in management studies called ‘Living with uncertainty’. I do not remember anything that was said in it, only the title, which I adopted as one of many inspirational mottoes. It simply means you have to accept you have to live with uncertainty. Byron Katie, the inspirational speaker, has written a lovely little book, readily available on Amazon, called 'Loving What Is'. And that title too says it for me. Indeed, the one could even be acceptable as a sub-title for the other – “Living With Uncertainty: Loving What Is” and I am sure I could go through the entire reading list of my favourite website, "The Philosophers Notes" on "En*Theos", and find another dozen or so book titles that would sit equally well with the motto “Living with Uncertainly” as that one. Straight off the top of my head I can think of ‘Happier’ by Tal Ben Shahar; ‘Man’s Search For Meaning’ by Victor Frankl; ‘Learned Optimism’ by Martin Seligman: ‘Motivation and Personality’ by Abraham Maslow; ‘The Courage To Create’ by Rollo May; ‘Positive Addiction’ by William Glasser; ‘The Gifted Adult’ by Mary Elaine Jacobsen; the list just goes on and on and on. I think I’ve just invented a new computer game. I must tell Brian Johnson, the Chief Philosopher. He’ll know how to make some money out of it. You could even add Tom’s trilogy. ‘My Big TOE’ to the list, and Bob Monroe’s ‘Journeys’ trilogy, ‘Journeys Out Of The Body’; ‘Far Journeys’; and ‘Ultimate Journey’. Because, after all is said, that’s what we are really talking about – the relationships between our journey through life, and our respective children’s journeys through life, and our lives after death.

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<<Call it Nature, Fate, Fortune, or Whatever*, all these are names for the one and selfsame god. (Seneca ca. 4 BC – AD 65 as amended by me to suit my world and my place in it. I call it Grampa.)

Namaste,

Ade Adrian


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:05 am 
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This is short, but it cuts to the chase.

Tom: "The best advice I can give to any parent is to get your own head straight first, then just act natural. Again, it is not so much a matter of what to do as it is a matter of what to be. Without fear, ego, needs, and expectations (since the love and caring for the child is usually a given), you cannot help but be an optimally effective parent. (It is parental ego and fear that creates most of the poor parenting -- not lack of knowledge or information.) You cannot control the environment (culture) they grow up in for very long, so you must help them develop the inner strength and values they need to successfully deal with it and learn from it. Then you must let them go forth and learn in their own way and own time." From this thread
That is one of my favorite bits of Tom's advice... the secret to being a good parent - to get your own head on straight and then just act natural.

Lena made a wonderful post. I read it and feel/remember/know the truth of it... however, it is not easy. I have been a stay-at-home dad for about 12 years now. It is something that I had never planned on doing and it has no doubt been challenging for me.

One thing that I have come to realize - especially through parenting - is that it is practically worthless to try to pretent that we are something or somebody that we are not. Trying hard to act like we think we should act is only minutely helpful - and hardly relevant in the long run. What is worthwhile however (in the long run), is to be exactly who we are and at the same time see ourselves with honesty and humility. In short... if we are a jackass, it is not helpful to pretent that we are not a jackass. It is, however, very useful to examine why we are being a jackass - the motivations, the fear, ego, etc. We can't move past our own junk unless we look at it honestly first. I am here because there was some hope that I could learn something by expressing myself (my IUOC) through the specific limitations of PMR and "Justin." To get anything out of the class, I have to pay attention. As I see it, that means to keep a close eye on myself - on my reactions, my fears, my motivations, etc.

So, the moral of the story is to keep your sights on becoming better; and remember that to become better, you must see yourself with as much honesty and humility as you can muster. We become better parents, lovers, et all. as a natural result of that process. There is no other way that I am aware of.

That is my limited understanding.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:22 am 
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My mom seemingly fed me to the wolves. Besides the father, brother, uncles abuse she was indifferent about at best, she actually brought home a man from her Parents Without Partners event supposedly for me to babysit his 4 year old son, I was 13, but who I ended up dating with her approval. She was living vicariously sexually through me, she used to sit with the curtains open to see who would bring me home in the mornings. I live vicariously through my daughter to some extent, but never sexually other than one time she was 16 and I told the singer from a band she was getting a signature from to sign her upper breast. As soon as I said that I realized the connection and completely broke that cycle. He signed her arm. I do think the band guy remembers us though, which was another thing that probably did.

Oh advice on raising kids, don't strike them. Spanking is just not what a Loving parent does. Please.
Love
Bette
The Big Cheese and some advisors are in the NPMR cafeteria having coffee trying to figure out what to do. The PMR ruleset has a very challenging set up for a new pregnancy and they are concerned the challenges of this incarnation will overwhelm any of the pool of students that are waiting for assignments.

Bette walks by and they see her huge pure aura and they think, problem solved..she will be able to handle it. Zillions of non-incarnate spirits tune in every day to watch and admire her progress, sort of like the Truman Show.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
My mom seemingly fed me to the wolves. Besides the father, brother, uncles abuse she was indifferent about at best, she actually brought home a man from her Parents Without Partners event supposedly for me to babysit his 4 year old son, I was 13, but who I ended up dating with her approval. She was living vicariously sexually through me, she used to sit with the curtains open to see who would bring me home in the mornings. I live vicariously through my daughter to some extent, but never sexually other than one time she was 16 and I told the singer from a band she was getting a signature from to sign her upper breast. As soon as I said that I realized the connection and completely broke that cycle. He signed her arm. I do think the band guy remembers us though, which was another thing that probably did.

Oh advice on raising kids, don't strike them. Spanking is just not what a Loving parent does. Please.
Love
Bette
The Big Cheese and some advisors are in the NPMR cafeteria having coffee trying to figure out what to do. The PMR ruleset has a very challenging set up for a new pregnancy and they are concerned the challenges of this incarnation will overwhelm any of the pool of students that are waiting for assignments.

Bette walks by and they see her huge pure aura and they think, problem solved..she will be able to handle it. Zillions of non-incarnate spirits tune in every day to watch and admire her progress, sort of like the Truman Show.
Laughing out loud through tears. Thanks Randy, I needed that.

Adrian I have gotten in the car with Randy driving, and am still here. :)
Love
Bette

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:38 am 
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Lol

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<<Call it Nature, Fate, Fortune, or Whatever*, all these are names for the one and selfsame god. (Seneca ca. 4 BC – AD 65 as amended by me to suit my world and my place in it. I call it Grampa.)

Namaste,

Ade Adrian


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