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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:04 am 
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A very prominent application of this First Principle from MBT regarding the universal importance of Free Will of all PMR entities is exemplified in what is occurring world wide with major implications for the free will of the vast majority, the so called 99%, of humans with the ongoing effort to control them by a subset of the so called 1%. Those who I and others have referred to as the über rich. There have been created 2 threads describing this situation "Required Reading" for informed Americans and "Required Reading" for engaged citizens of the world. Some who are in favor of politics on the conservative side have complained about these threads as being politically based. This is not however about politics but about a major Principle established from what Tom Campbell teaches within MBT regarding the supreme importance of free will within our Reality to the point that it would not exist without that free will.

Here I will only outline what is occurring and note that it is documented in the two threads referred to already. The outline of the situation is as follows.

1) Note that it is documented that there are in fact those who might be referred to as the über rich <<1% who possess roughly 40% of the wealth of the earth as land, international corporate control, and the monetary wealth exisitng. They sit on the boards of each others boards of directors and have interlocking ownership of the international corporations and banking institutions which are the source of their vast wealth.

2) Some, but not all, of those who can be classed as über rich are engaged actively and successfully in a concerted, although not cabalistic, effort to increase this percentage of ownership of the world and to also control the 99+% of humans within world society. This is literal control as being control of and reduction of their potential income from wages maintaining or placing them in poverty, control of the banking institutions and thus of their economic activities, control of their ability to vote in elections and control by suborning their elected representatives within government to pass laws that are favorable to their avoidance of taxation and to the increase of income from the corporations that they own and control.

3) This also includes documented control of the institutions of mass information dissemination by the <<1% so that their existence and activities as a controlling over class is concealed from the 99+%. This also includes the deliberate fostering of a 'Bread and Circuses' entertainment based cultural atmosphere and internal conflict within the 99% to further conceal and obfuscate the situation and activities of the <<1%. A clear case of the attempted reduction of the decision space of the 99+% as a further violation of desirable Principles from MBT.

Surely the basis for the violation of the Free Will of the 99% represented by this situation is clear to all and its clear opposition to this Primary Principle. Those who are of a conservative political persuasion may resent the linking of the willing cooperation of Republican and Tea Party members with this situation. That is clearly however the situation within American and other societies. Nor are the Democrats in American society free of the charge that they are being suborned by the contributions of the über rich who support their campaigns as well as those on the right, all on a clandestine quid pro quo basis with the expectation of benefits to the über rich to be forthcoming. Such political benefits to the politicians also includes inside information to be used for economic advantage and the largesse of lobbyists.

Read the actual threads linked for details.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:39 am 
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The situation described was less serious, less severe, in the past? 50 years ago... 100 years ago?
Anca


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Anca,

There has always been a ruling class. Before the Great Depression of the 1930s, there was reported to be a surge in the concentration of the ownership of wealth with a corresponding cut in the wealth of the 99%. Another has been reported in the past <50 years as tax laws were changed in favor of the most wealthy and many loopholes for major corporations were instituted. The reduction in regulatory oversight of Wall Street and financial institutions has been cited as the root cause of the "Great Recession" of the past decade plus which we are still struggling to get out of. During recent decades there has been a major trend to move production capacity over seas to areas where labor costs were negligible and worker protection laws non existent. Workers jumping off of factory roofs in China because of working conditions have been on the Internet and are linked to in those threads. There has been a corresponding loss of jobs here in the United States. Detroit, once called Motor City because of the number of automobile production factories there, has declared bankruptcy.

The concentration of ownership of the mass communications media in the past ~10 years is documented in links in those threads. Here is a link to much graphical information with regards to wealth distribution and related information. "Wealth, Income, and Power" by G. William Domhoff, Sociology Dept., Univ. of California at Santa Cruz http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html The highlighting in red is mine to emphasize that information.
Quote:
This document presents details on the wealth and income distributions in the United States, and explains how we use these two distributions as power indicators.

Some of the information may come as a surprise to many people. In fact, I know it will be a surprise and then some, because of a recent study (Norton & Ariely, 2010) showing that most Americans (high income or low income, female or male, young or old, Republican or Democrat) have no idea just how concentrated the wealth distribution actually is. More on that a bit later.

As far as the income distribution, the most striking numbers on income inequality will come last, showing the dramatic change in the ratio of the average CEO's paycheck to that of the average factory worker over the past 40 years.

You can get better information there than I can give you. There is a lot of such information spread out in the pages of the threads linked to in my post above as well. Everything is documented from good sources.

No one has even attempted to controvert this information, however much they might complain and attempt to obfuscate it. The middle class is disappearing and this is beginning to be noted in society. The number and percentage below the poverty level in the US grows apace. Remember the flap about Mitt Romney's comment to his über wealthy confreres and campaign contributors that 47% of the US population was dependent on government aid and would therefore never vote for him? There are serious efforts underway to cut medicaid, food stamps, medicare and even social security on the basis that they cannot be afforded. The fact that government income has been cut from taxes to the advantage of the über rich, resulting in this reduced government income, is ignored by the right wing politicians.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:42 pm 
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Quote:
Anca,

There has always been a ruling class. Before the Great Depression of the 1930s, there was reported to be a surge in the concentration of the ownership of wealth with a corresponding cut in the wealth of the 99%. Another has been reported in the past <50 years as tax laws were changed in favor of the most wealthy and many loopholes for major corporations were instituted. The reduction in regulatory oversight of Wall Street and financial institutions has been cited as the root cause of the "Great Recession" of the past decade plus which we are still struggling to get out of. During recent decades there has been a major trend to move production capacity over seas to areas where labor costs were negligible and worker protection laws non existent. Workers jumping off of factory roofs in China because of working conditions have been on the Internet and are linked to in those threads. There has been a corresponding loss of jobs here in the United States. Detroit, once called Motor City because of the number of automobile production factories there, has declared bankruptcy.

The concentration of ownership of the mass communications media in the past ~10 years is documented in links in those threads. Here is a link to much graphical information with regards to wealth distribution and related information. "Wealth, Income, and Power" by G. William Domhoff, Sociology Dept., Univ. of California at Santa Cruz http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html The highlighting in red is mine to emphasize that information.
Quote:
This document presents details on the wealth and income distributions in the United States, and explains how we use these two distributions as power indicators.

Some of the information may come as a surprise to many people. In fact, I know it will be a surprise and then some, because of a recent study (Norton & Ariely, 2010) showing that most Americans (high income or low income, female or male, young or old, Republican or Democrat) have no idea just how concentrated the wealth distribution actually is. More on that a bit later.

As far as the income distribution, the most striking numbers on income inequality will come last, showing the dramatic change in the ratio of the average CEO's paycheck to that of the average factory worker over the past 40 years.

You can get better information there than I can give you. There is a lot of such information spread out in the pages of the threads linked to in my post above as well. Everything is documented from good sources.

No one has even attempted to controvert this information, however much they might complain and attempt to obfuscate it. The middle class is disappearing and this is beginning to be noted in society. The number and percentage below the poverty level in the US grows apace. Remember the flap about Mitt Romney's comment to his über wealthy confreres and campaign contributors that 47% of the US population was dependent on government aid and would therefore never vote for him? There are serious efforts underway to cut medicaid, food stamps, medicare and even social security on the basis that they cannot be afforded. The fact that government income has been cut from taxes to the advantage of the über rich, resulting in this reduced government income, is ignored by the right wing politicians.
Ted
What is the problem here? Is it rich people in general or republicans you seem to have issue with? If it is right wing, then facts are a pesky detail. Those "Evil, Rich People" you hate are in fact Democrats
http://newamericangazette.com/2011/01/t ... democrats/
Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Larry Ellison, Al Gore, Clinton, etc. Over 60% of top 20 richest people are Democrates and when you widen it to the family point of view over 75%. Not to mention the fact dems are in power of two branches at the moment. Think we need to reevaluate the belief system here and figure out what exactly the issue is. It is not rich people. They create the jobs. We need to look long at hard at ourselves and figure out there in no free lunch anymore and it caught up to us. We can't demand cheap product, then complain it not made here. The *people put US mfg out of business, not the business people. The relentless ebay thinking consumer wanting everything for a $1 is doing that. Chinese are all too willing to oblige, US worker is not. And don't get me started. I just spent two years in Refi Hell trying to find an end-loan for our family business. Caused by the FannyieMae debacle driven by the left wing wanting to give free houses to everyone not able to afford them and the resulting crash. Don't paint with such a wide brush, as it takes your eye off the ball from the real problem and how to fix it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:12 pm 
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Rich are on both sides, republicans or democrats doesn't matter. The political system that divides people is to blame for the problems. And people keep falling into the trap every time! Going in to the polls with high hopes that will inevitably crash.

You want to change the system? – withdraw your support. How will the system change if we are still discussing the differences between D.. and R.s. They are all the same. They are both part of this system.

Withdraw your support! Don't vote! Don't show up to the voting stations.

Do you notice how the ads entice you to vote and be active. They are also part of the system. They make you show up at the voting stations.

You showing up at the voting stations is the problem!

By going to the elections all you do is giving the political system the credit of your trust!

If you want to support the political system of deceit, lie and psychopaths – go ahead! VOTE!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:50 pm 
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We can turn it around if/when US people start understanding "Kaizen" again (like Ford did) at the being level in everything we do. Until then, the East will eat our lunch.
Here is the perfect summation of the problem quoted from Ross Perot. Having worked for GM, I can testify toward the truth in this hilarious statement.
"When I see a snake, I shoot it...When GM sees a snake, they form a Committee and talk about Snakes!"

You can apply the same thing to politicians and governments. We need to get out of the politically correct (PC) business, out the large government business and out of the health care business and start shooting snakes again. We were good at it once.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:59 pm 
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саша,

No, саша, the problem is the mindless, unknowing approach, of which you express one of the worst versions with the above statement. Withdrawing your support does not logically mean to not vote but rather to become intelligently engaged. That mindless approach just allows the very worst aspects of the political system to win as whoever has the strongest mind control over their stooge voters to win by simply getting them to the polls. What you need to do instead of withdrawing mindlessly is to engage with the system on all fronts. If you are tired of voting for Tweedledee against Tweedledum, your advice is in effect, to vote instead for Tweedledumber. Whether it means voting with your feet in a 99%/1% protest, or exerting yourself in some way to promote an understanding among the populace or of running for office yourself, the mindless approach of "withdrawing your support" by not voting is the certain way to find yourself in a situation which truly has no outlet. A world society within which you are truly a helpless slave in all reality, faced with imprisonment if you do try to break out of the system with political activity. A situation which your mindlessness approach will allow full sway.

The problem is not just that all politicians are of this same pattern of willing stooges of the über rich but that the vast majority of voters are amongst the class of the mindless and uninformed sheep, willing to vote on the basis of simple minded sloganeering and who ever puts up the slickest advertisements and lies on the telly. We must convert what has been called Sheeple into People with understanding of what is really going on. That is the true approach to counter the control of others over the sheep's free will and your free will as well. We must act to protect the free will of those who are unable to protect their own free will. This is the approach based upon MBT principles.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:06 pm 
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Hypothetically, what do you think would happen if no one shows up at the polls for next election?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:16 pm 
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William,

Your approach of advocating 'Kaizen' simply puts another slogan which is not understood up there as the magic solution. Instead of the GM approach referred to as the problem, creating a committee, Kaizen is simply the approach of another car maker, a Japanese car maker, to improving their product line and competing in the market. That is where I have had experience with the concept of kaizen. Instead of forming a committee that goes in circles, they form a committee and appoint a Kaizen leader but it comes down to the same thing: another damned committee of limited value.

There is no winning approach that does not result in creating mindful and informed voters who can protect their own free will intelligently. Cаша advocates for the mindless approach of withdrawal. You, William, are advocating for the mindless approach of advocating one side versus the other as Democrats versus Republicans. You are doing nothing to refute the picture of reality which I have painted, which included the understanding that virtually all politicians of both persuasions were part of the problem of politicians suborned by the über rich. You only obscure it by pointing out that there are über rich on both sides of the political fence.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:26 pm 
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Cаша,

It is not a matter of no one showing up at the polls and producing anything useful from that. I have already addressed that situation. It then simply becomes a matter of whoever has the greatest control over their stooges to get them to the polls wins by default. That can be done by going into the streets and paying people to vote for a $10 bill and perhaps some free booze. It can be done by pushing the right mental buttons in political advertising to take in those who are subject to control by seductive and deceptive sound bites. This is largely the approach of the political right at present. Vote your pocket book: cut taxes. Then use the lowered tax income as justification for cutting off social services. And in reality, whose taxes got cut the most and benefited the most: the über rich.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:38 pm 
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Ted,

This was a hypothetical question. You didn't answer it. Instead, you told me why this situation(nobody showing up) is an impossibility.

"I don't know" is an easy thing to say and it leads to discovering the answer. Instead, you choose not to consider the question.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:10 am 
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Cаша,
Quote:
Hypothetically, what do you think would happen if no one shows up at the polls for next election?
My answer that this could not and would not possibly happen was a perfectly good answer whether the question was hypothetical or not. You might as well ask what would happen if people suddenly had the ability to fly by flapping their arms. Would it then make any sense to reply that their arms would probably get tired? If absolutely no one voted, how would this change the situation that I described? The situation is not a matter of voting per se. Nor is it a matter of which political party is better or not. It is a matter of all of those things which I outlined that create the situation of Control being created where the free will of some is to violate and take away the free will of the majority which is a clear violation of the stated principle based upon MBT.

What you are advocating simply bypasses real understanding of the situation and provides no solution, no realistic pathway to improvement.

Ted


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:33 am 
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William,

Here is something that you said that is so full of problems that they really should be pointed out.
Quote:
Think we need to reevaluate the belief system here and figure out what exactly the issue is. It is not rich people. They create the jobs. We need to look long at hard at ourselves and figure out there in no free lunch anymore and it caught up to us. We can't demand cheap product, then complain it not made here. The *people put US mfg out of business, not the business people.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Caused by the FannyieMae debacle driven by the left wing wanting to give free houses to everyone not able to afford them and the resulting crash.
What I have said has nothing to do with hatred of the rich. It has to do with their behavior patterns.

It has nothing to do with a belief system. I did not repeat it all here in this thread, but it is fully documented in those threads linked to. Government supplied data. Academic analyses. It is all there as documented rather than believed only.

Rich people can create jobs when they are of a mind to. But they do not do this out of the goodness of their hearts but with the full expectation of making even more billions out of what is built or fabricated by paying for those jobs. And you might note that they have no interest in paying higher wages than necessary. That's why the minimum wage is about 70 to 75%, equivalent, in buying power than when I first started working for minimum wage as a teenager. The dollar is only worth 3 to 4 cents now compared to what it was worth 5 decades ago. The new minimum wage rate being fought for of $10.10 per hour will barely keep up with this situation.

There has never been any free lunch on a large scale from the government. There might have been those who took advantage of things, but it was a mighty meager meal. And our not being able to afford it because tax rates have been cut with a resulting cut in government income is a result of the manipulations of the über rich for their advantage and they have benefited the most from those tax cuts. The subsequent use of this lower tax income is an absurd excuse to use for cutting government social service programs.

The American people did not put American manufacturers out of business, willfully destroying their own jobs. That was done again by some über rich laissez faire capitalists manipulating laws so that it was to their advantage to do so as it being much more profitable to manufacture overseas where there was no minimum wage or protection of workers rights at all. That's why there have been garment factories burned down in Bangladesh. That's why there have been disgruntled and over stressed, under paid, workers jumping to their deaths off of factory roofs in China. That's why there have actually been moves from the first selected low wage, cheap production, country to a second tier of such even lower wages, cheaper production. That's why there are efforts at unionizing Walmart workers and various fast food workers here in the US. With the poor being added to every day and the middle class being destroyed, moving people into ever lower economic situations, it is absurd to blame them for shopping where they can get lower prices to go with their reduced purchasing power and reduced wages. As another aspect of this, those same über rich have been hiding their wealth out of the country and taking advantages of tax loopholes and the near non existent tax rates in some Caribbean and other locations.

The situation with Fannie-Mae was not caused by 'liberals' selling houses to people who could not afford them. It was rather caused by banks and investment institutions taking advantage to provide mortgages to people who could not afford them, taking advantage of a situation for profit. Then repackaging these clearly unstable and unsustainable loans to be guaranteed by Fannie-Mae at the expense of the American People when they inevitably failed. They were also repackaged and resold as investment grade products as derivatives to further compound the losses to the American people as investors.

You are letting your own beliefs distort your understanding, based upon your own bad experience. I too went through something like that when after putting my parents house in a reverse mortgage, because property we owned could not be sold in the then current market, to help finance their lives as disabled and demented until their deaths. Then losing the house because the crash in real estate values made that same property totally unsaleable. I had previously gone through the same situation with our family business having for some still unclear reason related to the economy in the early 90s having all of our large national scale corporate customers stop all maintenance and construction work, cutting our volume of business to less than half and with a quarter million dollar contract I was expecting stopped cold. That company said that they had suddenly changed to the point that they couldn't buy a Japanese manufactured pick up truck without it being specially approved by their New York board of directors. Anheurser Busch, one of our long term and major customers at the local brewery level, was subsequently sold to a foreign company within roughly a year. This turned me from an employer at a long term, reasonably profitable, family owned business and being 'middle class' into a would be employee having a hard time finding a job in the then current market, even with many skills and history of success. Don't let your experience distort your ability to reason your way through this situation.

Ted


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:00 pm 
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It was between bitcoin and this thread, but I decided to post it here. http://alturl.com/qwbez

These people work on real solutions to the problems.


And to the question of democracy: that is a democracy.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:07 am 
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Its very natural to paint "other" in all its forms, as the enemy, the problem. When I was a youth, I noted with interest some statistics that indicated that my neighbourhood was the poorest in my province (like an American State), and that the neighbourhood directly adjacent was the wealthiest.

I got into a special program where I changed schools and went from hanging out with the poorest of children, a lot social assistance, to hanging out with the richest of children, including leading national families.

The first thing I noted was the similarity of intelligence between the two groups, and the vast difference in values and belief. The second thing I noted was the similar diversity of ethics, which now I would rather call quality of consciousness. This was a surprise for the working class mind, the existence of rich folks who's entire focus was service to country and the poor. The other thing I figured out much later, was the diversity of effectiveness in this regard.

Later in life I got involved with the poor who were so far down the ladder, they could not even manage social assistance paperwork and many were homeless. Here too I was startled by the diversity of ethics, having been brought up with this belief in the nobility of the poor.

So, though I agree its a problem, I don't think its a rich versus poor thing, nor a right versus left thing. I think its

1) a deficiency of quality of consciousness pervasive within all such polarities
2) a deficiency of political engagement by the lucid

So, I think Ted is on to something, I just think it is an intent that needs further shaping in order to become effective.

Is possible that this is actually the macro end game of TOEism, and there are hints at this in the Trilogy...enlightened political organization in order to prepare for upcoming challenges.

Once a system has crossed the threshold of democracy, even in limited form (such as exists in China), it then is simple matter of showing up to meetings and asking questions, and seeing where that takes you.

The more you engage from the point of view of attention rather than looking for something for yourself, the more power you will have. There is very little decision space if you take an NGO or political job. The roofing company operator or doctor who shows up for meetings and runs for things has much more decision space and power.

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