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 Post subject: Mysticism
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:07 am 
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What is MBT view about mysticism?


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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:01 am 
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Basically I would say that Tom does not 'practice' it. He arrived at his information and developed his theoretical description of the LCS and his model of Reality and how Consciousness developed through the model of thought and process of modern science, for which he was trained, applied to his explorations and experiments in the non physical realms of the NPMRs and OOB in PMR. So there was no mysticism involved in his process or in his results. You cannot get the same results from mysticism and I know whereof I speak. As a mystic you can 'see' the Void, the Void as quickened (the LCS begins to function) and finally Indra's Net (all the IUOCs symbolically reflecting each other over the RWW) and perhaps get an understanding of VRs existing as in the Buddha's declaration that our lives are Illusion. But you can't figure out how these things work and put together metaphors like The Big Computer and the VRRE subset of it by pure mysticism. Those are based upon PMR science, engineering and technology. And they are just metaphors for the IUOCs just doing their thing, as that is where and what TBC and the VRRE really are as I have explained before here and on Tom's Wiki. If these things were extant in NPMR as being known and understood significantly, perhaps you could tap into that information as in being given the information, but it is apparently not available there as Tom has said. It is no better known there than here. PMR technology and science are meaningless there as the rule set is more relaxed and there is no basis for science and technology in that there is no physicality to provide either a basis or a need for it. As science does not exist, nor the things that science is based upon, that mind set and information, the description of the LCS, etc. does not exist there to any significant degree. Tom says this somewhere although he did not rule out the existence of that information there in some form and to some degree. After all, he describes this as a project instituted at high levels of management within the system of associated PMRs and NPMRs that Tom calls Our System (OS) and our associated NPMR. Likewise there is no basis there for mysticism as all communication is just mind to mind with subjective interpretation of what you receive and your individual understanding of what is meant by what you send.

So basically MBT and Tom have nothing, or at least very little to say about mysticism. If you were to read the book I have recently commented about by David Keirsey called Please Understand Me II as his revision of his book on personality types published years earlier, you would be able to see Tom very vividly described as the type INTP, as he self reports, which is known, in some descriptions, as the Architect, referring to their creation of systems as well as specifics of just how he presents MBT from "open minded skepticism" to use of acronyms and his creation of the elaborate system of thought that he teaches, describing the Larger Consciousness System and all the rest. No mysticism there but rather left brained rationality. That kind of creation is what INTPs do and is also consistent with Tom's career here in PMR as a scientist in the missile defense field and with NASA later. Tom is not an INFJ as I am and one characteristic that can be present with that type is mysticism, although they are known as Counselors as their more common characteristic. While there are other INFJs self reported to be on the board, none have ever self reported as mystics.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:11 am 
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When trying to read MBT trilogy I had trouble, it seemed scientific in my understanding (probably due to my lack of education in certain areas) and kind of cold, where I was looking for a more mystical type of feeling in which the juicy bits didn't really have that although pointed to a place I percieved to be the same in some way.

The more personal parts of the book with Toms uncovering although not giving too much away on His own experiences in other realms I could relate to and was what attracted me to look more to His lectures on youtube, it was the feeling I got of Him when explaining the data and then experiencing my own interpretation is what has kept me interested.

I think Tom is the link for those into scientific? data and those of the mystical/spiritual side.

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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:20 am 
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Tom is basically attempting to put MBT into terms that the general public can understand by restating it in multiple ways which are understandable from multiple points of view and the broad range of experience, including education, of society. He does not want the technical details to be forgotten, for those who will wish to look at things that way, but he attempts to put things into terms that a broader range of people can understand without mathematics or science education.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:24 pm 
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Right, INFJ, and mystic here.
Sorry, Ted. I am quite sure I am not the INFJ mystic your were hoping for. So it goes;)


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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:06 am 
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Juan, that is not the primary characteristic of the INFJs. That primary characteristic, according to David Keirsey, is that they function as counselors to others. Looking back, I can see a thread of that throughout my life, helping others to understand things, situations and other persons in their lives. When I was young, girls would ask me to help them understand their boyfriends. I was too peculiar to be eligible boyfriend material. Look around and see if you also don't do something like counseling of others in your life, perhaps as mediator or peacemaker.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:58 am 
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I guess I need to read David Keirsey book to understand that well.


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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:54 pm 
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Of course, I understand that being a mystic is not a primary characteristic of INFJs.
I posted that comment because you wrote, "While there are other INFJs self reported to be on the board, none have ever self reported as mystics."

So, here I am, self-reporting as an INFJ and a mystic.


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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:32 pm 
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Juan,

This is what confused me in your post. I'm still not clear what you meant.
Quote:
Sorry, Ted. I am quite sure I am not the INFJ mystic your were hoping for. So it goes;)
Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:14 pm 
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I sense annoyance from you towards my posts. So that is why I wrote that. I was trying to be funny.
Don't know how much clearer I can make it.


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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:58 pm 
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I should have gone back further to find and include this:
Quote:
So, here I am, self-reporting as an INFJ and a mystic.
Which when combined with this:
Quote:
Sorry, Ted. I am quite sure I am not the INFJ mystic your were hoping for. So it goes;)
Seems to be a clear contradiction. I was not "hoping for" any particular mystic or even any at all. I did have some curiosity as to what percentage would claim to be mystics out of however many INFJs we have on the board. It must be enough of a characteristic for it to show up on some descriptions of INFJs on the Internet. I do remember a few here on the board stating they were INFJs.

Not annoyance, just confusion.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:51 pm 
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I point to an INFJ and through syncronicity recieved a audiobook of the History of Mystics, at the moments I am listening to Evelyn Underhill's - Mysticism, A Study in the Nature and Development of Spiritual Consciousness.

I recieved this and with the mystical teachings realise that for what its pointing to is what I have been living but unable (due to poor education and INFJ communication style) to articulate into words, there more feelings and experiences I interpret to allow me to understand, its been more deep knowings.

I have posted a few events that may be on this forum about feeling an initiation from within taking place for my search to make myself "whole" and an aching to find real love, not that of the physical i have experienced.

I feel the way some of these experiences have taken place has got me searching for how this relates in the physical, is the information out here to better understand, that lead partly to my joining of this forum.

I do not want to label myself as a Mystic, but seem to be living more than intellectualizing a somthing.

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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:30 pm 
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Martin,

It typically takes a while to get a handle on our perceptions if we are mystics. To believe that it is not just fantasy or illusion. This information source is so rare and contrary to society's norms that you do not have ready role models or even someone to understand you. I'm talking college age and beyond. And there are so many different points of view that even within the mystical literature, it is very difficult to pick out the thread that is common to all of those viewpoints and paths.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:17 am 
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Ted,

Yes, I understand, if I am correct in what is taking place then this is all within and only the knowledge outside can touch upon certain pointers, the last pointer was alchemical in its 7 steps.

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“It is often said that before you die your life passes before your eyes. It is in fact true. It's called living.” - Terry Pratchett


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 Post subject: Re: Mysticism
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:33 am 
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Ted, did you have your sense of humor removed at birth, or are you just yanking my chain?


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