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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:07 am 
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"learn to live gracefully with uncertainty until you have collected enough personal data to come to a tentative hypothesis that is always open to change."
From http://www.wiki.my-big-toe.com/The_Mean ... The_Source

Essentially, I interpret this statement as:
One would have to spend a lifetime to be able to come to a sort of idea about something and then still not be sure about it.

Is it possible to know about something "for sure"?

e.g. It took me more than a decade being in a dysfunctional relationship to realize/know that (& Tom has verbalized this in MBT books) that it's not what one says or does that is important, it's why - "intent is the source of doing."
This is knowledge based on experience, correct? Does it mean one has to be still not sure about this (be openly skeptical about this) until no evidence disproves this? And only then one is still not sure about this then?
Isnt this a bit frustrating? or is this ego talking?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:58 am 
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Yes, I can see how this could be confusing. But there are at lease two factors that go into that idea. First, we live in an subjective reality not an objective reality. In an objective reality where everyone had the same data stream you could absolutely prove things. Everyone would experience the same circumstances the same way. We know in our reality that this isn't true. Ask 6 people who witness a car accident to describe the event. There will be similarities, but no two descriptions will be exactly the same. People will process the event through their own biases and think it is the absolute truth.

But if you worked for The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and crashed cars for a living, to determine their safety in wrecks, then you would presumably be a lot more objective. You have a lot of experience and data in which to form an opinion.

So that is why Tom says, "It isn't your truth until it is your experience."

The other main idea is that you should always be open minded. The moment you have no more room for a new idea you are operating on belief. Tom, himself, has said he is open to new interpretations if new data appears.

So, by experience, like in your relationship, you can form some conclusions. But in time as you evolve you may change your mind on some of your previous ideas. That is a natural evolution as you grow the quality of your consciousness. You will start to see things differently as you start to lose some of your fear, belief and egoistic nature.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:01 pm 
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Is it possible to know about something "for sure"?
I would say yes to this from my own perspective. And if you read the book I have referenced frequently on the 16 personality types by Dr. David Keirsey, "Please Understand Me II", and looked up Tom Campbell's personality type as an INTP, a Rational Architect (of systems), you would find that Tom fits the description there like it was written around him, including the specific statement that you should be open minded but skeptical as being typical of this personality type.

Now I am in no way contradicting this concept. However, there are at least two ways to be able to say that you know something for sure about what Tom teaches. For one, to the extent that you experience it for yourself, duplicate Tom's studies, you can be quite sure if your experience matches Tom's model of reality, but then there will always be Tom's residue of uncertainty, small as it may be. The other way is the way that I got there as an INFJ or Idealist Counselor which you might well find to be sometimes described as mystics, or that they have a proclivity to be mystics. So I did not follow Tom's path but I got to the same place as I have described frequently here and on my kind of path, you do not have any trouble being 'sure' this information as you experience it directly without any intellectual process of analysis involved. This makes for more certainty of feeling, but still does not eliminate all uncertainty as you will realize that since subjective interpretation is always involved, there is always that same residue of uncertainty associated with this subjectivity.

These are biases or proclivities that are built into your personality and I am working on showing how this is inherent to your IUOC as your base being. So you might perhaps find out what your own type is and see how these different personality types perceive things and from this see if you have potential for 'knowing' things or will you always have uncertainty. There is in fact always uncertainty, but you might have more of a feeling of certainty, based upon just what your 'type' is.

Ted


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:58 am 
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"Tom Campbell's personality type as an INTP, a Rational Architect (of systems), you would find that Tom fits the description there like it was written around him, including the specific statement that you should be open minded but skeptical as being typical of this personality type...These are biases or proclivities that are built into your personality and I am working on showing how this is inherent to your IUOC as your base being. "

Does this mean Tom's personality is the same as in NPMR as in PMR - and that he takes this INTP personality of his in any pmr he goes to? Or does this change? Or is this his basic core? where did this come from? Im asking this as I am curious as my father just passed away and I want to know if his feelings of sadness, fears stayed with him?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:55 am 
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This is a theory of mine which I am working on getting into a final form to show it clearly. Relating MBT theory to this personality theory. I'm having a hard time getting the right graphics software to clearly show the relationships I want to show in a PDF or on a web page. I need to put a 3D image onto a flat page for the complex relationships to be clear. I have shown the basics to Tom and he is waiting until it is finished to give me any input.

Basically, I can relate our IUOC to these 16 personality types, so that is something which we develop and carry with us into every incarnation. But we don't carry things like sadness or fears with us on into the future. We might have a particular type of problem that we deliberately work on in our incarnations until we master it, but we don't carry them with us but rather create them anew in a new life. If you read the book I mentioned, you would see that these 16 personality types represent ways that we approach life and typically interact with others and things. They are proclivities and not problems and not specific at all. There are only 16 personality types in this theory and they can apply effectively in many PMR life circumstances and roles. They are the result of training of our IUOC in multiple incarnations, just like our entropy reduction efforts.

Yes, I think that Tom carries his basic rational, analytical problem solving personality type into each incarnation and VR into which he incarnates or visits. This is consistent with what Tom has told us about his past incarnations and activities in NPMR where he tends to be a problem solver assigned to special problems and situations. But this represents means of approach and not success or failure, happiness or unhappiness. Those things are not basic to our IUOC that I can tell but rather a product of the particular incarnation experience. Don't worry about your father having to face his next life as unhappy and fearful. He, as reintegrated into his continuing NPMR self, will be making the next decisions as to where to incarnate and which problems to work on with the help of guidance in the future and that life will have its own new set of problems. Some that he specifically chose and some which just happen. That is what he is learning to deal with in his successive lives and that is also what you are learning to deal with in yours. From what you have said, he is doing it well.

Ted


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