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 Post subject: Who am I?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 12:17 pm 
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This is my first post to the bulletin board although I have been reading it for about one year. I have watched most of TC’s videos and I have read the trilogy and use it as a reference. I have always been interested in physics, metaphysics, philosophy and theology.
As I understand MBT, an IUOC becomes self-aware only by way of a VR when some subset of that IUOC is fed a data stream (over the RWW) from TBC (itself a subset of the LCS/ AUM) acting in the capacity of a VRRE. As a consequence, the reality that I (as a human person) experience is subjective, not objective. The avatar, which I experience as me, is just a subjective interpretation on the part of a subset of an IUOC. At some point in “time” that experience will end and at another (future) time, another experience, involving another (or the same) subset of the IUOC, will begin. As I further understand, it’s possible for more than one subset of an IUOC to be receiving data streams from different VRREs at the same “time.” This would mean separate partitions of an IUOC could be experiencing 2 or more avatars at once. However, in no case does the IUOC experience any self-awareness, of its whole self, in the absence of a VR.
This leaves me with the philosophical question: Who am I, really? Now then, I (as a human person) am NOT an IUOC. I am some subset or partition of an IUOC, which partition becomes self-aware, as described above. According to MBT, an IUOC is never aware of its “whole” self, only partitions of IUOCs experience self-awareness as avatars in VRs. When I die (when I stop getting fed a data stream of the VR I am currently experiencing), I as a partition of an IUOC can / will be “reabsorbed” into the IUOC to supplement the computational resources needed by the LCS, or to be re-partitioned, in part or in whole, so as to begin receiving a data stream(s) from other VRRE(s). My conclusion is that "I" will be gone, with my experiences recorded in the past actual database. So, if I am a human person, at some point I will no longer exist. Or, if I am an IUOC, I am not self-aware.
The notion of birth and death (life) is just a construct used to denote the beginning and ending of being fed a data stream. I think I understand how my “experience” can help develop the QoC of the IUOC of which I am a partition. But that IUOC, since it is not self-aware, cannot appreciate (be aware of) that experience; it can only be “applied” by a subsequent partition which can be self-aware. But that subsequent partition will not be me.
In a nutshell, I am an illusion. Everything about me is an illusion. Even my self-awareness is an illusion. On the other hand, un-partitioned IUOCs experience nothing. The I, who is me, will simply come and go, hopefully making a contribution to the entropy reduction of the whole system (via an IUOC which is not self-aware.) Finally, the only awareness which is not virtual is that awareness which is characteristic of AUO/AUM/LCS as per MBTs first assumption that "consciousness exists."
Any help correcting my understanding is greatly appreciated.
Bob F


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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:33 pm 
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It became apparent to me before learning of Tom that the concept of "I" was irrational. It's an idea that creates an inherent separateness within our culture, resulting in most of the territorial violence/problems of today. I came to understand that we are all one, and you can even find scientific statements that somewhat support that idea. I.E., there's a good chance you will breathe in some of the same molecules that a lot of famous people from historical periods onced exhaled. I know that specific idea isn't supported by MBT, but it was a sort of eye opener in a way...especially for someone who holds modern science in a high regard.

From there I started exploring the different theories on what reality really is. In my searches for more information on a virtual reality theory, I found one of Tom's videos on youtube.

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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:05 pm 
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Bfergusojr,

Let me try to clarify some of your present concepts expressed above.

You are not a subset of your IUOC, The IUOC is your base. If you add a PMR rule set and your own specific abilities and limitations as per your genetics which then goes to modify the data stream representing your PMR experience coming to you over the RWW to your IUOC. And then if you add a history of this PMR life to your IUOC as memory to your IUOC, you have your avatar complete. You use your memory/history to subjectively interpret your incoming data stream. The data stream is first calculated based upon probability and then the VRRE aspect of TBC takes over and creates a data stream representing your experience of PMR, including the effects of the rule set and of your own particular abilities and limitations.

You do experience yourself, at least your IUOC does, as normally two FWAUs or avatars at 'one time'. But this is not a matter of subdividing your IUOC but rather by time sharing of your IUOC between these multiple data streams. This is possible because our IUOCs are part of the LCS and AUM which gives them the fastest delta t cycling time of anything that exists. Out of the total time they, the IUOCs in Union, spend functioning as an integral part of AUM, they spend part of that time as an instance of TBC where they prepare the VR experience for all of the participating IUOCs within a System. A system is a group of PMRs and NPMRs with the same management and participating IUOCs, at least potentially. They each only participate normally in one PMR and one NPMR. NPMR cycles at a much slower delta t than the LCS. PMR cycles at a still much lower delta than NPMR. So these 'simultaneous' things are not really simultaneous but rather time shared out of all of the available delta ts based on the LCS cycling rate. Basically the same thing that the processors in a state of the art PC on your desk top does. The Operating System shares out the processors and their available cycles amongst the processes that you are trying to run at one time.

Who you are really is your IUOC. Who you perceive yourself to be at any given time is an NPMR avatar or a PMR avatar. This is all time shared by the Operating System that is the LCS and AUM. When you, as your IUOC, are functioning as part of the Union that is AUM, it does not perceive itself as that data stream does not include information to provide any experience. It's just 'number crunching' in a sense, following instructions and making the specified calculations. The perceptions are at the higher level that is AUM. Think of perhaps our IUOCs as serving as the Neurons in the brain/digital mind that is AUM with their synapses represented by the messages over the RWW that, together with the IUOCs in Union make up AUM. Each message over the RWW includes coding which determine its function as part of AUM or as making up the experience of an avatar in a VR. Your IUOC within itself, as you note, has no experience of itself. Add the things that make up an avatar and your IUOC experiences itself as a human being, specifically you. Just like the PMR model is that your brain somehow creates consciousness and that consciousness experiences itself as you.

What you receive over the RWW to place you in PMR includes what you normally think of as your 5 senses plus also what you think as conscious thoughts in your internal dialog. Tom has figures on the different delta ts and if you check, you will see that the rate of delta ts, even for PMR, is so fantastically fast that it is necessary to feed us our own thoughts as thought by our IUOCs since they cycle at the rate of the LCS which is even vastly faster. The RWW data stream provides your whole experience of being present in PMR as your body, your senses, what you see and hear and touch and the physicality of everyone with whom you interact.

You can look at yourself and everything about you as an illusion, just as you say. I refer you to the Buddha who historically said that our life of suffering is Illusion; translate that as VR. This kind of technical set up is what is required to take a digital information system which is deterministic, the LCS/AUM which adds the necessary component of absolute free will, permit it to develop Consciousness and then let it develop itself further by developing its constituent parts as IUOCs within VRs where they can experience consciousness and make the decisions which, by the feedback mechanism that Tom describes, can allow them to lower their entropy and raise their QOC. This effect then provides the same effect, much more slowly, to AUM.

You might also consider reading the version of Tom's model on his Wiki here: http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/The_MBT_Model_Link_Page Ask more questions where this is not fully clear.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:18 pm 
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thanks Radagast,
Here's my conundrum: If there is no "I" or "me," then there cannot be any "you." That is to say, there is no "Other." But as I understand MBT, entropy is lowered by focusing on "Other." But wait, we just said 'there is no "Other."' Do you see my confusion?
Bob F


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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:23 pm 
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Ted,
thank you so much for your explanation which I have read through once. I must re-read it and reflect on it, and I'll check out the referenced model on the Wiki. I am already formulating additional questions that I hope will lead me to better understanding but I'll wait to post them until I have thought them through more thoroughly.

Bob F


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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:53 pm 
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Quote:
thanks Radagast,
Here's my conundrum: If there is no "I" or "me," then there cannot be any "you." That is to say, there is no "Other." But as I understand MBT, entropy is lowered by focusing on "Other." But wait, we just said 'there is no "Other."' Do you see my confusion?
Bob F
There is of course a separateness. But the separateness is not real. It is a virtual separateness which allows us to interact within this VR. As long as we are in a VR, our separateness feels as real as the chair you are sitting on. So as long as we are in a VR, there is 'other' to interact with. That is the purpose of the VR. Realizing that our perception of being an individual is an illusion the same way your chair is an illusion doesn't change that. What is important is that it feels real to us. Understanding our true nature and the true nature of reality simply allows us to have more meaningful interactions. It's a step on the path of evolving consciousness, both our temporary individuated consciousness and the larger consciousness of which we are a part.

In no way does the virtual separateness cheapen or make less significant our interactions with other beings who appear to be separate from us. It makes objects and physical things less significant. The things we do at our being level driven by our intent are always meaningful, and everything in the VR is designed to allow us to express that intent. So, if anything, our virtual separateness is made more important by the realization of the true nature of reality. In fact, if you were to consider this as some kind of computer game, you might say that understanding would be the cheat code. The understanding of big truth is not the ultimate end, but it usually allows us to progress along the path a little bit faster than we would have otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:26 pm 
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Thanks Ted and Radagast. I have read the description of the MBT model on the Wiki. It has occurred to me that, as you must know, “language” is a challenge since we are searching for metaphors for things of which we have no immediate experience from the perspective of our PMR avatars. Pronouns are especially confusing. I have noticed in the forum and in the Wiki, and I suspect in the trilogy too, the pronouns "we," or "you," etc. are often used to describe what I assume to be one’s PMR avatar. This usage is at the root of the question of this thread: Who am I?
I think that I now understand that IUOC’s aren’t partitioned but, in a sense, time share their processing ability (nature) to act as part of the LCS, and to experience consciousness as both an NPMR and PMR avatar. The Wiki refers to IOUCs as the “source” for avatars and Ted refers to it above as the “base” for avatars wne he writes, “You are not a subset of your IUOC, The IUOC is your base.” Here, you can see, I am assuming that Ted is using the pronoun “you” to refer to “me” as a PMR avatar.
As I understand the model, my PMR avatar is destined for the actualized past database. It is to become a memory of experiences for the benefit on “my” IUOC. I also now understand that this IUOC has an NPMR avatar by which it experiences consciousness. So my next question is: Is this NPMR avatar also destined for the actualized past database? Let me stop here for the moment, as I hope this question will inform my further thinking.
Thanks,
Bob F


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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:19 pm 
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Regarding the Wiki model, as I point out the ancient metaphor and model of ancient India as Indra's Net and then also Tom Campbell's more modern and science/technology based model, I am also pointing out exactly what you refer to as the problem with models and metaphors. As Tom says, the model is not the Reality so don't be trapped in the model/metaphor. However, this is in my opinion a better model than past models. But when greater knowledge, perhaps after MBT informed study in the future allows and produces a better model, it will be replaced.

When I refer to 'you', I mean you specifically and also any one else reading this as we all, as PMR avatars, have this same set up. When I refer to we, I am referring generally to this fact that we all share this same set up for our self as a PMR avatar and our IUOC.

Our NPMR avatar, likewise an experience of our IUOC, does have its place in the actualized data base for its past history but it is rather continuous in its experience. It does not periodically incarnate nor die. In NPMR there is no experience of a body unless you 'imagine' or create this based upon your PMR experience. Your fellow NPMR avatar as a part of your whole self is the continuous accumulation point of experience, including all of your PMR avatars and past avatars experience. It does not have them all in mind but it is more like it 'cherry picks' the best that you create in terms of personality traits and skills of consciousness that it finds of most value in your successive PMR avatars.

The most productive of your PMR incarnations/avatars can potentially make the most impression by contributing most to your NPMR avatar's continually developing personality and skillset. It is basically the product of your cumulative PMR avatar's lives and personalities. It can experience 'you', as your present avatar, in the future by accessing the past actualized data base if there is some detail or aspect of your past life that it wishes to study or particularly remember.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:51 pm 
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thanks Ted, this is very helpful. Somehow I missed the point about each IUOC having a continuous NPMR avatar. I thought that I read somewhere that for NPMR avatars, NPMR VRs "seem" just like PMR VRs do for PMR avatars, only with far looser rule sets.
Can I conclude that as a result of the continuing nature of the NPMR avatar, that it is essentially the conscious expression of the "self" of that IUOC. Further, that while I understand that it is unusual to have more than one PMR avatar experiencing a PMR VR at one time, it could happen. But, given the "exclusivity" of the NPMR avatar with respect to the "self" of the IUOC, each IUOC has only one continuous NPMR avatar (if it has one at all) never more than one. And still further, that it always has that same NPMR avatar forevermore?
Bob F


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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:51 pm 
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NPMR avatars don't experience NPMR the same way PMR avatars experience PMR. The rule sets are very much different which prevents this. However NPMR avatars can do more in the way of modifying the experience of NPMR and can mimic PMR to some extent, as I understand it.

Yes, there can be two PMR avatars to increase the rate that experience can be accumulated for new IUOCs to the incarnation game. There would be no value to doubling up on NPMR avatars however. This would cause problems about who gets to be the real NPMR person. They do not naturally die or terminate otherwise. Only if they become abnormally negative in their development, receive many chances and much training to reverse this process is an IUOC terminated and thus all of its avatars. So doubling up on NPMR avatars just opens a 'can of worms'.

Yes, you only have one NPMR avatar. This avatar can in effect change over time as it is the accumulation point for the changes developed by the PMR avatars during their lifetimes. Have a great and successful life in terms of reducing entropy and raising QOC and both the IUOC and AUM gain from this. The gain for the IUOC directly improves the QOC of the NPMR avatar and also the next PMR avatar. The avatars in NPMR can reduce their entropy and raise their QOC, but it is a much slower proposition. We here in PMR are the cutting edge of entropy reduction and raising of QOC because of the intensity of interaction within PMR.

Tom has commented that the NPMR avatar can be considered to be the most like our IUOC, expressing its qualities most directly. PMR avatars have the effects of PMR DNA as part of the rule set as well as all of the other aspects of PMR which do not exist in NPMR. So as Tom says, our NPMR avatar most clearly and observably expresses the characteristics of our IUOC. Think of our IUOC as a digital mind which makes our decisions and is the basis for our avatars. But it is not really like an avatar. It is the digital mind behind our avatars.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:11 pm 
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It is my understanding that all realities, including NPMR, in which we have an avatar and interact with other avatars or objects are virtual realities. No avatar is real. All avatars are just the result of the perception or interpretation of the consciousness behind it. Also that NPMR is just a metaphor to describe reality outside of this one which appears physical to us. While in NPMR, everything there seems physical to that avatar, while this reality becomes the new NPMR from that perspective. It's all very relative. Avatars are virtual, while as Ted said the digital mind behind an avatar is real. Also, the concepts of death and life are not a result of switching on and off the PMR data stream. You can switch data streams while your current physical avatar lives on. Data stream switching is a matter involving consciousness, and consciousness doesn't die. Death and life are a result of living in a virtual reality where everything appears to be born and eventually die. Consciousness is real, all else is virtual. So as consciousness you are either experiencing things in a VR, or not. What is life like for consciousness when it isn't in a VR? I'm not sure. I guess it could be something like the void, but I could be wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:16 pm 
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Radagast,

This may confuse readers, but I don't mean that you are wrong but rather that it might be more clearly stated.
Quote:
It is my understanding that all realities, including NPMR, in which we have an avatar and interact with other avatars or objects are virtual realities.
Entirely correct.
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No avatar is real. All avatars are just the result of the perception or interpretation of the consciousness behind it.
This is to me a questionable and confusing way to put it. True that all avatars in PMR or in NPMR are not the material physicality that they appear within their 'native' VR, if this is what you mean by 'not real'. Try that all avatars are real as the result of the perception of the consciousness behind it which is an IUOC. Our IUOCs are as real as the most real thing in existence as the LCS which they are a natural and inherent part of. Even AUM is in a sense Virtual as AUM is just as much a meta reality existing 'above' the LCS as AUM is The One Consciousness existing above the LCS within the messaging that makes up AUM's digital mind as it connects the IUOCs into the Union of all IUOCs that is AUM. Nothing is more real that the perception of such a VR creating data stream by an IUOC. That it is virtual does not mean, not real. And keep in mind that that conscious perception of an IUOC occurs only when that IUOC receives a data stream to interpret which provides the perception of the VR which that data stream represents. That is a data stream created by an instance of The Big Computer which provides within that data stream the elements to be interpreted as being within that particular VR.

When that same IUOC receives a data stream that is part of the internal data/thought stream of AUM or that consists of that part of AUM which Tom calls metaphorically, The Big Computer, there is no VR creating component within that data stream. Then there is no consciousness but rather the simple handling of the data stream to be reacted to by that IUOC by applying logic, interpretation, pattern matching or reiterated pattern matching. In other words the IUOC is functioning as what might be thought of as a neuron in the mind of AUM or a single computer within the 'cloud computer' that makes up an instance of The Big Computer as the 'super computer' that it is. So while our IUOCs function as part of either AUM, within the Union of IUOCs that is AUM, or as a part of the mind of AUM which Tom refers to as The Big Computer, our IUOCs are not conscious as they receive no data stream components to be conscious of as being within a VR. The Consciousness that IUOCs are Individual Units of is The One Consciousness, the Consciousness of AUM. When an IUOC is individually conscious, it is because it is receiving a VR creating data stream which includes within it the data stream components which it interprets as being conscious.

This is not unlike the PMR model of how brains work. The neurons within our PMR brains are not individually conscious but rather some how, unknown to PMR science, they in their union as our brains create consciousness, just not in a manner which that science can explain. The MBT explanation is rather that the brain in PMR is virtual as part of the VR of PMR. That our apparent consciousness as the PMR avatar possessing that virtual brain is the gift of AUM as AUM, through the metaphorical TBC, creates a special message that places us in the PMR VR and provides the experience of being there and being conscious, once it is interpreted by our individual IUOC.
Quote:
What is life like for consciousness when it isn't in a VR? I'm not sure. I guess it could be something like the void, but I could be wrong.
I have described this above in that our IUOCs when they process data streams that do not represent a VR are totally without consciousness as the things which we interpret as consciousness and being conscious are provided to us, to our IUOCs which have the experience of being us as VR avatars, through the data stream which creates that experience. Our IUOCs are no more conscious within themselves than the neurons that make up our VR brains are conscious within themselves in the PMR model of reality.

See if this is not more clear and if not, I'll lick this calf over again as the old farmer used to say.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:09 am 
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Quote:
Quote:
No avatar is real. All avatars are just the result of the perception or interpretation of the consciousness behind it.
This is to me a questionable and confusing way to put it. True that all avatars in PMR or in NPMR are not the material physicality that they appear within their 'native' VR, if this is what you mean by 'not real'. Try that all avatars are real as the result of the perception of the consciousness behind it which is an IUOC. Our IUOCs are as real as the most real thing in existence as the LCS which they are a natural and inherent part of. Even AUM is in a sense Virtual as AUM is just as much a meta reality existing 'above' the LCS as AUM is The One Consciousness existing above the LCS within the messaging that makes up AUM's digital mind as it connects the IUOCs into the Union of all IUOCs that is AUM. Nothing is more real that the perception of such a VR creating data stream by an IUOC. That it is virtual does not mean, not real. And keep in mind that that conscious perception of an IUOC occurs only when that IUOC receives a data stream to interpret which provides the perception of the VR which that data stream represents. That is a data stream created by an instance of The Big Computer which provides within that data stream the elements to be interpreted as being within that particular VR.
You're saying our perception is real. I agree. Our perception must be real in order for everything to appear real to us in the VR's. This apparent realness is required for the VR's to fufill their purpose of being realistic environments that allow us to experience. But perception doesn't equal reality. The things we percieve (from our avatars to a rock) aren't necessarily real independent of our perception. Objects aren't rendered if they aren't being percieved. That's what virtual means. 'Virtual' and 'real' are antonyms. A bookcase is a bookcase. A virtual bookcase is something that appears to be a bookcase, but really isn't. In other words, it's an illusion. Data being interpreted as illusory physical objects. Is the data real?

So virtual realities and virtual avatars are not real, they are illusions. Consciousness is not an illusion. Consciousness is real, so by definition it cannot be virtual. If AUM is conscious or consciousness, it also cannot be virtual. I'm pretty sure Tom has stated that consciousness is real multiple times before, though i'd have to go and look it up.

The only way I can see that AUM could be considered virtual that would make sense, is that AUM/AUO is not conscious. But according to MBT, it is. I could accept the fact that AUM is virtual, and therefore consciousness is virtual, but Tom seems to think that consciousness is real. I'm not sure if i'm being clear enough...but my reasoning is this: If consciousness is real, and AUM = consciousness, then AUM by definition cannot be virtual.

Further, if AUM or consciousness is virtual, that implies that there must be a higher level of reality above it. A reality to be considered real, or more real than AUM. That opens up a whole can of worms that MBT doesn't deal with. Tom states that we cannot know about what is outside of AUM or consciousness, therefore we begin MBT theory with the premise that consciousness is real.

Quote:
I have described this above in that our IUOCs when they process data streams that do not represent a VR are totally without consciousness as the things which we interpret as consciousness and being conscious are provided to us, to our IUOCs which have the experience of being us as VR avatars, through the data stream which creates that experience. Our IUOCs are no more conscious within themselves than the neurons that make up our VR brains are conscious within themselves in the PMR model of reality.

See if this is not more clear and if not, I'll lick this calf over again as the old farmer used to say.

Ted
I think some confusion is arising from the use of terms. You're saying Individuated Unit of Consciousness is not conscious. That's a bit contradictory. Would it be accurate to say that IUOC's are not self-aware, because they have no concept of self? But, if we consider the definition of consciousness to be (in part) a self-aware potential, then IUOC's wouldn't be conscious as such because they aren't intrinsically self-aware. So the term "IUOC" could be considered a kind of misnomer in that respect. I actually reasoned all that out before I went to the wiki: http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/Consciousness which states that "To say that we are an Individuated Unit Of Consciousness is in a sense a misnomer."

I think we are getting at the same ideas for the most part...just using different words or understandings.

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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:08 pm 
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You forget the Larger Consciousness System. That is what underlies AUM. The One Consciousness, AUO and AUM are just consecutively developing aspects of One Thing. In a real sense, the LCS, its development into all of the IUOCs and the RWW are synonymous. They are all real. The LCS, the IUOCs and the RWW are all deterministic. This is what permits there to be the three 'data bases' that Tom defines as the past actualized, past unactualized and future probable data bases. The LCS is all of those reality cells and the data within them. If it was not deterministic, you could not go back to read the past data bases and bring that information into the present to 'read' it nor bring the future information into the present to read that either. If this was not deterministic, then the past would disappear as soon as the now moment passed it by as you could not go back to know the past.

But when all the IUOCs, not yet actually IUOCs, were united by the RWW, this allowed free will to come into existence. This allows something to 'sit above' the deterministic LCS which eventually develops into The One Consciousness based upon it having free will in terms of any IUOC being able to respond with free will to any incoming message on the RWW or not. This is the beginning of the development of The One Consciousness/AUO and its progression on to become AUM. This puts AUM in regards to the LCS as indeed virtual, but not truly in the same sense of avatars in NPMR or PMR. That is because AUM creates the VRs of NPMR and PMR by creating TBC to generate the VRs.

But at the same time, AUM can exist only because of its in effect sitting outside of the LCS with free will because AUM exists as the Union of all IUOCs united by the free will communication over the RWW. Ultimately this all comes down to information. The information that becomes complex enough to become self aware as AUO/The One Consciousness and goes on from there. Ultimately this is just one vast information system which by its inherent nature can become self aware and create what we call Consciousness. The LCS is real and the base and source of everything. The One Consciousness/AUO is real and part of the information system that is the LCS. AUM is part of, a continued development of, the information system that is the LCS. The VRs are part of that same information system and its data. The only difference is that it is derivative as virtual as we call it. It is very difficult to call one part of this whole system as real and another not real when it is all the same information system and information.

When we get into what is not real, we talk about what is represented, the illusion, of physicality within the PMR VR. I don't think that Tom will disagree with me on any of this. I think that we are both reading off of the same sheet of music. Perhaps at most transposed into a different key.

Ted


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 Post subject: Re: Who am I?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:41 pm 
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This is a bit confusing now, considering what the wiki says: http://wiki.my-big-toe.com/AUM that, AUM and LCS are synonyms..."The Absolute Unbounded Manifold (AUM) goes by many alternate names, such as the LCS.." Yet, you're making a distinction between the two as separate "things" in your posting. I understand that the LCS began as AUO, then became AUM. But they're essentially the same thing. You say AUM is virtual and the LCS is real. Then, they cannot be the same thing. Perhaps the wiki is wrong? I feel like the LCS grows (evolves) in a sense like we grow. From childhood to adulthood. We are the same being now that we were at age 5, but in much more ways we are completely different, both psychologically and biologically. My original view was that LCS and AUO/AUM are the same thing(and the wiki also says this). You're saying the LCS is a separate thing that predates AUO? That even now, the LCS and AUM exist separately of each other?


Also, back to IUOC's and awareness. I went back and searched Tom's posts, and found an interesting one: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7636&p=65583&hilit= ... eal#p65583, where he states that "Since all consciousness is aware (has awareness) one might think that the two words are the same, however, all awareness does not have to be conscious." Might it be that IUOC's have awareness, just not a conscious awareness? Or is that even beyond possibility as well?

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